| Author | Message | ||
     James |
This could sort of go on the lyric discussion board but I thought here in the fantastic new General section was best. Aplogies if this is a little vague... I've only been to Australia once, and it was at the time of FORW, I was lucky enough to see the GBs at The Big Day Out in Melbourne. However, my best GBs memory is of a warm afternoon in a little town called Port Fairy, way down the Great Ocean Road. I was listening to FORW on my walkman, waiting for my friends to finish wandering, and the place, the weather, and the music seemed perfectly suited to the GBs. Particularly to Robert's songs. There was a slightly delapidated 1940s feel to the place. Its main street evoked the US, but there was also an English small town primness to it too. Far from squashing my previous notions of the GBs songs, my enjoyment was actually enhanced. Does anyone else had any similar experiences? | ||
| steve |
I was living in Wellington, New Zealand a few years ago. My girlfriend and I rented a house in Island Bay, over looking the Cook Strait. I remember playing 16 Lovers Lane over and over and even now, ten years later, Streets Of Your Town sends a chill down my spine. (We also had Woodface by Crowded House, and Weather With You has the same effect.) | ||
| Alan |
Never been down under, but the Summer after 16LL came out I was on holiday in a remote part of the Spanish coast with my family. I was at that 'difficult' period of adolescence, and spent most of the fortnight wandering alone with my walkman, listening to 16LL. Something about my teenage angst,the fierce sun, the vast bright landscape, and the blue sea seemed to fit with the crisp bright chords and sunny melodies, and the lyrics.... I'm not sure that any record has ever felt so 'in context' as 16LL did then... Anyway! Enough nostalgia. | ||
| carl |
The wife and I spent our honeymoon in Australia. I, of course took a GB tape with me to play in various hire cars (a wise decision after tuning into some oz radio stations!), which had the effect on my wife that the GBs finally `clicked` to her. She thought they were the perfect sound for Australia, and she is now a big fan and keeps asking me when they`re playing next. One time I met Grant and told him that story and he was really pleased, saying he agreed about the sound and the environment complimenting each other. | ||
| rj |
The GBs in context for me is the soundtrack to London particularly the Tahlula and 16LL albums they where my sound track for a 2-3 year period when I always found myself in London when they where released, another great memory I have is of seeing the GBs for the first time live when they supported REM in 1988 during the Green Tour think -Robert introducing Clouds as the greatest song ever written - more recently my best memory of the GBs has been with the Primevera festival in Barcelona last May a great venue and a great gig by the Band -may even take the trip again this year as the Pixies are confirmed to play. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I remember listening to SMAL in my small room 'on campus' and thinking.. "My God, it's so modern, the future has arrived. I've arrived, I must be modern too!" That's it, I just spent my load. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
It hit me only this morning, when I got out of bed, why I thought SMAL to be such a modern sound at the time of it's release. The sound on SMAL is very reminiscent of the sound of The Laughing Clown's "Throne of Blood/Reign of Terror" greatest hits release of 1980. I just had to play it all morning. There really are so many simularities. I think Lindy's drumming is very reminiscent of Drumming Guru Jeff Wegener (she might disagree). James's Sax is very reminiscent of the sounds of R. Farrel's sax. (and P. Doyle's trumpet) on that album. Grant's vocals are very reminiscent of Ed Kuepper's own voice and to a lesser extent, I think Robert's and Grant's guitar sound is reminiscent of Ed's own work. Probably Tony Cohen is the common link. He was the man defining the modern Australian sound more than any other person. No doubt he was responsible for adding the clownish piano/keyboards on SMAL, post production. I can hear the Cure's rhythmic patterns in Grant's bass, but it's a subtle thread. | ||
| david nichols |
Never thought of a Grant McL - Ed Kupper link before. Works for me, though. Good point. I think Lindy would be flattered by a Jeff Wegener comparison, if not she should be. | ||
| david nichols |
No criticism intended, and no offense meant, but I am a bit surprised by this description of Port Fairy - 'There was a slightly delapidated 1940s feel to the place. Its main street evoked the US, but there was also an English small town primness to it too.' The PF I know is neither delapidated nor prim (can a place be those things simultaneously?)but a very wealthy seaside 'getaway' town and as for 1940s - I would have said more like 1870s - ? How does its main street evoke the US? What kind of US streetscape and how? You may be right, I just don't see it. More description/explanation would be very interesting. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I was wincing with the thought of the probable replies to my last two posts. Re: Jeff Wegener/Lindy. Yeah, I think she would, but I don't know if she finds the comparison valid. Jeff's style quickly grew more complex as the Clowns coalesced into their jazz/rock fusion, but early in the piece (specifically between these two albums anyway) their styles are not dissimilar IMHO. I sometimes think that Lindy might have made a great Jazz drummer. Anyway, that's not the road she chose. Re: Ed/Grant. Neither of them could sing, that's the main similarity. Grant got better. Ed never did. At this stage, both of them screeched and where unabashed about singing it nakedly out-of-tune. Re: SMAL/A.K.A. Greatest hits 1980. Many of the tracks from the Clowns compilation was recorded in the same studio as SMAL (Richmond Recorders) and often using the same engineer. The sound is sometimes simular. On a few tracks, it is very simular. | ||
| James |
Erm well yes I agree my description of Port Fairy sounds stupid if you know the place very well. But I was only there for a couple of hours three years ago and that was how it felt. The people seemed prim, the place slightly weathered and odd, in the way that seaside towns often are. Compared to the other places along the Great Ocean Road PF was sedate and yes now I think about it probably quite posh by comparison. Anywhere that has that grid style street layout feels instantly American to an Englishman. Apolgies to the residents of Port Fairy and the people of Australia for my badly written and misinformed post. | ||
| Vangelis |
I searched the gigography and the only gig in Athens,Greece is not mentioned at all. It was in 1987 or 86. I am not sure but anyone that knows pls post info. | ||
| david nichols |
re: James Port Fairy don't be ridiculous not badly written or misinformed - I was just interested. | ||
| Cassiel |
It's weird. I went to Oz for first time a few years ago, and it wasn't the GoB's I was listening to; it was Born Sandy Devotional by The Triffids. All that stuff about wide open roads, big blue skies, the claustrophobia of huge open spaces, 'no foreign pair of sunglasses will ever shield you from the light' sort of thing, actually made sense. Cattle and Cane and a few other songs aside, I always thought of The Go-Betweens as a very English Australian band, if that makes sense. They did spend most of the 1980s over here and I can connect with a lot of the stuff they sing of, whereas a few Triffids songs, even though I loved them, I often though 'Huh?' | ||
| Padraig Collins |
On my first and, so far, only trip to Brisbane I felt I could finally see where a lot The Go-Betweens songs came from. Particularly the spirit of the river there (don't mean to be a hippy about it though). You are exactly right about The Triffids making much more sense in Australia than anywhere else though. | ||
| catfigs |
living in brisbane the go-betweens seem to haunt the town practically. in a hundred years people are going to be writing articles trying to figure out where in brisbane the cover for spring hill fair was shot. there'll be all these cadidates, all these locations that people will probably list and consider. people will read this really grand thing into the city, into spring hill, into all those areas. yeah i know the cover was shot in england, but listening to the music and looking at the cover it becomes this new weird strange secret spring hill. something about some of those songs seems to preserve and capture a brisbane that is fast ceasing to exist. though patches of it still exist. little echoes. you always bump into people who know the people in the band in some faint way, who had cameo appearances in the david nichols biography. the clearest music /geography link up i can make off the top of my head was the day after i bought bella vista terrace. i ended up walking along wickham terrace i think, stopped in at the old queensland writer's centre. entrance round the back. leafy back gardens, yellow paint peeling off timber houses, buildings. walking back into town later. all the time go-betweens songs going through my head. how perfectly they fit the city and some of the older fallingdown parts and places, especially new places you never knew about before... | ||
| david nichols |
I have probably spent, all told, about a week and a half of my life in Brisbane, but I am very fond of it, a beautiful city with so many positives. In research for the GoBs book I looked through a lot of 1970s Brisbane papers and it was horrible to see all the news about remarkable 19th century buildings being destroyed in the name of progress. One report that sticks out for me was a large hotel (forget the name) which was being demolished and Barry Humphries weighed in on its behalf and was of course reviled for his efforts by the pro-progress lobby. I think in many ways the GoBs' vision/celeberation of gothic Brisbane has prevailed - at least amongst many of the city's cultural arbiters, but theirs would have been a minority view at the time - though there was quite a bit of anti-development protest in Bris in the 60s/70s, just like there was a lot of general political protest, and a hell of a lot of things to protest about. I think this is why everyone involved with the Heather's Gloves film will always mention the late 70s Brisbane it captures (rather than anything intrinsic to the film's storyline or performances) as the best thing about it. | ||
| catfigs |
brisbane has some beautiful parts that they'll have a hard time totally destroying. the city is being redone up and destroyed but from a certain point you can still go buy a cd, wander up ito queen street amll and look down and see the botanic leafy gardens far off by the river. if you actually don't mind being in the middle of queen street for a second. wickham terrace has still got these old woodne houses. st lucia near uq is like everywhere else gettign redone but there are still some beautiful little roads, on a bus you can look through old houses and trees to the river. taringa is getting done up but you can still wander the back streets there and see old houses bits and pieces hidden by trees. i think they'll have a hard time totally burying that strange brisbane thing but maybe you have to look for it more, or know whatyou're looking for. there are cranes up all through the city kinda on purpose to give the impression of progress but there are still magical little corners, side streets, hills, crests. | ||
| david nichols |
You could almost divide the rock groups of the world into two distinct categories: those that are decidedly 'of' the place they came from, and those that 'transcend' it or are, you know, more global. In the Triffids-GoBs era, no-one ever really said The Birthday Party were very Melbourne - though oddly enough since once the BP got under way every second band in Melbourne started imitating their sound and look, it was more like Melbourne became very BP. The Triffids were very Perth although a lot of that came from their very touching and admirable refusal to deny where they were from - they were always parochial in the best sense - this wasn't always a matter of their music, in my opinion. I think for a lot of people the GoBs were defined by Before Hollywood, the classic expat Australian album - none of the albums following were so place and time-oriented. Or am I wrong. | ||
| Jimmy Green |
You are wrong as usual. | ||
| Sean |
From some of David McComb's interviews I've read, it seems he never set out to deliberately "sound" Australian. I suppose by never denying his roots, the Triffids were easily branded by the press as being the quintessential Australian band of the 80s. I just don't think David McComb cared less about labels at all. | ||
| hsf |
hey Jimmy Green Why is Mr Nichols wrong as usual, please elucitate? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
He's right about The Birthday Party and I think he's right about The Triffids, AFAIK. I think he may also be right when he says that "for a lot of people the GoBs were defined by Before Hollywood". But there is a fine distintion to be made here. Certainly, BH did define who the GBs were and to a lesser extent, who they are now. But the defining album of their music and almost everything that followed is SHF, in my opinion. I acknowledge that SHF could not be considered as such, except restrospectively. Nobody knew what was to follow. And it's not that BH is not representitive of what was to follow. It's just that I think SHF gives a better definition. It's the first album that exposed a fully matured band. Maybe I'm wrong. | ||
| Donalda MacLeod |
Hi, can I come in? Not sure how this works! Computer Idiot in Edinburgh (where they NEVER play.....) *sniff* | ||
| Donalda MacLeod |
Hi, can I come in? Not sure how this works! Computer Idiot in Edinburgh (where they NEVER play.....) *sniff* | ||
| Donalda MacLeod |
Apologies, I didn't mean to send that twice (wasn't kidding about the puter numpty thing!) Anyways, gigs in London and Dublin but not Glasgow? They ALWAYS do Glasgow, I guess maybe from sentimental reasons of their brief time there (I'm only halfway through The Book) so why not this time? Any news of more dates? btw Mr Nichols big-ups on doing the aforementioned literature, 'bout time someone did. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yeah, but then they ALWAYS think it's a Dart. Welcome, they put up with me, I don't see why they can't put up with you. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Re: Mark Ilsley on SHF as defining album. I think you make an interesting point, Mark, though looking retrospectively (as I can only do with their eighties material) I've always felt that the recent incarnation of the Go-Bs have set out to distance themselves somewhat from the first three albums, especially when representing their music live. Sure, a song like 'Unkind and Unwise' defines the jangly-guitar pop tag probably better than any other in their cannon, and 'Drainging the Pool' oozes Forster's eccentricity and simple pop sensibilities, but never were they to do songs as daring or musically cloying as 'River of Money' or 'Five Words' again. We know how Grant feels about SMAL and I guess I would be foolish to ever expect to hear a live redention of 'Hold Your Horses' anytime soon. However, if BH is truly Grant's favourite then why doesn't it get a better airing live? As much as I love them, the recent two albums only give us a two-dimensional version of the Go-Betweens sound, giving way to classic pop progressions and structures that have prevailed since "Liberty Belle", leading me to suggest that their fourth one is my pick as the quintessential Go-Bs LP. Then again, has Grant contributed anything as grand as 'The Wrong Road' since then, or has Robert ever again tackled the neo-soul of 'Twin Layers of Lightning'. Ultimately, every Go-Bs album is different from the last. "Tallulah" is a joyess and sickly mess of pop indulgence, 16LL is soft with sentiment and lush with production, and the latest two have a much harder and direct musical edge that I personally find very difficult to place along side the original six at all. Their recent stuff is great though - I actually think TFORW is their most consistent album, though not my favourite. | ||
| catfigs |
i definitely think retropectively spring hill fair is their most go-betweeny identifiable unique album that kind of grabs and captures and collects all their disparate elements into a kind of messy but really seeringly vivid picture of them as people and that time and the place they came from and were coming from. it gets them at the point they were taking control of their sound and what they wanted to be doing with it, but before they had full control and figured it all out. it's them. so are the other albums but spring hill fair still has allthe awkward corners and that cattle and cane oddness and uniqueness about a lot of the songs that were kind of lost later on. insome ways for the better, and it cropped up in different ways on later albums, but spring hill fair has that rem falbes kind of feel. almost a centre for them. they had something, some bleeding timber rich red energy that they were wrestling with, and they partly lost the battle and didn't quite get what they wanted on that album but it's one of those things that, looking back, you see that what they did get was pretty special. on the other hand i might be talking crap and most people might vomit reading this stuff. just a feeling i get listening to those albums now. i think liberty belle is probably their neatest most together in terms of energy and neatness and so on album, i think tallulah has some great great songs and moments, kinda messy but it has a ragged sort of feeling about it. you could almost think that liberty belle in some ways was the height they got, the mountain, and the albums on either side are heading there and falling away from it, and succeeding and failing in their different ways. i guess being at the top of a mountain you're going to be alittle sharper, but also a little less rich. it's thejourney that's the thing, and maybe spring hill fair has all the riches of coming through the wilderness and getting really close to the top...and the following albums have the looseness of falling down the other side. kind of a beatles post revolver thing maybe. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
A Centre is a good way to describe it, although none could ascribe that meaning to SHF until after the bands demise. LB may well be the better album (and it is one of my favourites) but it's also a little too late in the plot to be considered defining. I think of it more in terms of a pleasing diversion, rather than a defining album. Had they moved on to embrace the full C&W aesthetic, in all its glory, then this album would clearly be the one. BH is a valid choice. All the elements are there musically, but the lyrical themes are mostly parocial. It was an ode to their upbringing, a duty and a tribute to their partents. Sure it was the album that defined them as an iconic Australian Band, at the time, but is this definition really sufficient in the light of their later developed international appeal? Retrospecively, SHF was their centre of gravity. They abstracted the lyrical theams from their own personal experience, giving them broader appeal. They were less concerned with being Australian and more concered with the realm of common human experience, reguardless of nationality. They succesfully lifted themselves out of their own background whilst, at the same time, defining themselves as an Everyman's band - an impressive feat, I think you'll agree. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
I agree. I think you're probably right - "Liberty Belle" doesn't really represent their past glories, but I was thinking more along the lines of what they've become and how they've refined their sound. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
It's an opinion about SHF that I dreamt up. Only recently and after rediscovering it. This album is not hip like SMAL or parocial and iconic like BH. It seems to have been created deliberately ordinary. Not ordinary in quality but ordinary in content. No constructs are needed by this time and our view of the naked talents of the GBs as song-writers and musicians is not obscured by fashionable desires. Surprisingly, it also works very well as a theme album. Not surprisingly, the themes chosen are decidedly unfashionable; faithfulness, religion, loyalty, fidelity and commitment all get a run. I think it is one of only three theme albums the GBs have succesfully completed. Being SHF, BYBO and 16LL. Maybe BH should be counted as a theme album (the theme of Australian-ness or perhaps the theme of a country background). | ||
| Padraig Collins |
Mark, Liberty Belle is most certainly not "too late in the plot to be considered defining". How can that be the case in anyone's career? Someone's fifth or tenth or whatever album could be a defining one. Why do you think it has to come early in a career? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
No, it isn't impossible. If you contend that their 4'th provides the best definition of the GB's sound and/or lyrical style, then you must first eliminate the preceeding 3 on some basis. So how should we eliminate SHF? Each album did make some progress or addition to what had proceeded before it, so it does become a question of significance. When is enough, enough? You could argue, for example, that Tallulah must be the defining album since the preceeding 4 lacked Amanda's contributions. Or that 16LL must be it because the preceeding 5 lacked John's. On and on you can go but my objective was never to make a statement about which album I thought was best (which I think is 16LL, btw) but which is to be considered the most representative. I like SHF in that role, for although I think it marks a significant improvement on the first two, I don't think it lacks that much on everything else that followed. It's just opinion, that's all. | ||
| Padraig Collins |
Lover's Lane is my favourite also. I think it is their definitive album. Maybe that is different from defining? God but we talk about some arcane shit on this message board! | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Shit is the right word, but at least it gives us something to talk about and maybe think about. Stick around, I haven't seen the "If the GB's where food, what food would they be?" conversation for a bit. Bound to come up gain sooner or later. Classic. | ||
| catfffffffig |
so, what food would they be? i'm guessing bran? | ||
| Gareth |
What food would they be? I'd say a large tin of Quality Steet. 80% lovely and delicous, 17% nice but take a few bites to really get under your skin/palette and 3% you just want to spit out ('Cut It Out','Someone Else's Wife', 'After the Fireworks', 'The Wrong Road' etc). | ||
| Padraig Collins |
Quality Steet are the worst named sweets ever. It's a misnomer like, for instance, calling something 'The Best of Sting'. Awful sweets. No, Robert would be Black Magic and Grant would be Milk Tray. | ||
| jerry |
there's only one f'in catfig! | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Ahhhhh...A return to serious discussion. P.S. I just heard another version of St. James Infirmary Blues by C&W star Rambling Jack Elliot. See: http://www.ramblinjack.com | ||
| david nichols |
The catfigs posting from March 21 is really pretty brilliant. | ||
| catfigs |
wow, thanks david. i have to say it makes me happy to hear that from you. i've been toying with writing a go-betweens article lately, sort of a 'getting to grips with the go-betweens' sort of thing, based around my own odd local insights into the band, or at least the albums, which i guess is a different thing again. written a long ramblng passage of writing but don't know where to take it. some of that's been bleeding out into this place. spring hill fair seems like the best album to write about from a local point of view in some ways. sitting on a bus travelling through spring hill i keep seeing houses the front cover photo might have been taken from even though i know it was taken in england. i think they made a couple of albums and songs that recrafted and remade and redrew and reimagined the whole town. i think brisbane belongs to the go-betweens more than the go-betweens belong to brisbane these days, though not in a way that helps the band much sadly! and they might even take that as an insult considering the state of some of the city... interesting thought to me though. i'm sure there's an article there though.... | ||
| rj |
Go for it then Catfigs post it up here for review | ||
| jerry |
i think you already have. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I'd like to see it all in one piece. Grit ure teeth and bugger the bandwidth. |