| Author | Message | ||
     Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 139 Registered: 05-2005 |
OK, I've read some things from Keith's thread "on listening at the moment X" and wanted to give this a proper home as I too would love to talk about a couple things regarding technology. First, I listen to my ipod now more than ever, especially after two recent purchases by my much-trendier wife: FM transmitter cable and logitech speaker system. I also have some high-end headphones from Bang & Olufsen (also a gift from wife.) I've had great debates about digital vs. analog and as a tangent live vs. studio recordings over some wine with friends. Some real audiophiles who have $30K+ stereos and a room full of vinyl specifically, recordings pressed on 200-GRAM QUIEX SV-P VINYL. My questions are: What products do others use to enhance their listening experience (ipods, cables to stereo, napster subscription, etc?) Is anyone else baffled that most people accept mp3 quality so readily vs. a lossless source? Do these devices like high-end headphones, speaker systems correct or improve the compression-loss of low-end sound inherit with mp3 and other compression formats? And finally, how do I digitize my record collection? I want songs not offered by Rhino and such. What do people use for software to clean up the snap crackle and pop of their record player recordings when digitizing them? Has anyone digitized a cassette tape? If so, what is the best method? | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 831 Registered: 03-2006 |
Matthias, maybe accepting mp3 over a lossless source is part of the whole f___ you attitude towards the record companies downloading embodies...it's like, "We don't need no stinkin' lossless sources, we can leesten to these mp3s"... I have an analogy for why it works for me to listen to mp3s...I buy a lot of books, too, and there are some things you know are of more of a disposable nature, so you don't need a hardback. A cheapie paperback will do just fine, since you know you're probably going to throw it away anyway. So, with music, anything I really love like the GoBees, I want the best quality source possible...other stuff, not so much... I don't have a 30K stereo, but I've invested a few grand in it anyways, and though I can tell the difference when I listen to mp3s on it, the sound is quite tolerable, and I guess the bottom line is I don't care. Is it of equal quality to a CD? No. Is it acceptable to listen to? Absolutely. That said, being a newcomer to the whole world of downloading I am quite interested in any answers to your query, Matthias. Always looking for new ways to enhance the experience. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 140 Registered: 05-2005 |
I've gone one step further to purchasing like new books from barnes and noble resellers, etc. always half the price than the chains. i agree there is a "who cares" factor in most of my topics. the nature of the fanatical discussion you and I share in. I still want to know what everyone thinks. And a challenge back to you: can you really hear the difference between CD and mp3? I honestly cannot anymore. Is my hearing lost? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 772 Registered: 05-2005 |
Although I love listening and making music, I must admit my take on all of this is similar to Robert Forster's take on music technology, he sticks his guitar in the back of the car and drives over to Grant's, God bless him, and Robert. I think that if you have led a pretty music orientated lifestyle for most of your life its debatable how mush you can hear anyways!! I mean, since back in the day I have been going to gigs, and have had many an enjoyable evening with me head buried in a cab the size of a jet engine, have played many a gig where Fender twin reverbs were turned up to 11 for the encore, not to mention the crappy rave style nights/early mornings I used to go to occasionally I hasten to add. So, the result, hello titinus goodbye ears!! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 833 Registered: 03-2006 |
Matthias, all your topics are interesting, I think. Don't construe anything I said as making light or pooh-poohing this subject - I was giving my own, probably backward, take on it. And, I'm curious too as to how everybody else weighs in on this topic. Particularly if they have any cool tips or advice on equipment to buy... Not sure if I can tell the difference between mp3s and CDs - my hearing's probably shot, too...not to mention my attention span (too much tuning out boring people, particularly bosses)...maybe if I compared mp3 and CD versions of the same song, one after the other... I find if you're really digging music, the sound (within limits) starts to seem immaterial...I downloaded a live (mp3)Yo La Tengo show and I gotta say, it sounds like a zillion bucks, but a lotta that is probably based on how much I like the music. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 634 Registered: 04-2005 |
I'm not a techy at all, but I can hear a bit of a difference between CDs and MP3s. However, for all but the most serious listening--for example, at home with great over-the-ear headphones--the difference isn't significant. When I was between iPods, I used my old Sony Discman with the same earbud headphones as I used with the iPod, and I did notice that music seemed brighter and sharper, and the bass a bit fuller. But the convenience of having hundreds or thousands of songs available at any given time is worth the slight loss in audio quality, at least for portable listening. To expound on one thought in that paragraph--people out there with iPods who still use the standard Apple earbuds owe it to themselves to upgrade to better earphones. The Apple phones sound OK at first, but I've found their quality degrades considerably over time (deliberately?). I bought some "audiophile" earbuds made by Ultimate Ear, and they are leagues better--really amazing given their tiny size. But they weren't cheap ($100). I still maintain that vinyl records and analog recording technology from the '50s through the '70s are far, far superior to CDs and digital, though as someone (Randy?) said, digital has opened up the world of music-making to people at home, and that's a very good thing. Still, listen to top-notch jazz recordings from the '50s and '60s and marvel at the snap and live feel of the drum sound. You just don't hear that in digital recording, no matter how good it is. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 776 Registered: 05-2005 |
Its also an age thing. LK your point re how much youlike it, realy outweighs the quanity issue. The more we listen to MP3's generally the less we will question the quality. I mean, with remastering, the vinyl thing goes out the window. Coz, even though the feel of vinyl was warm and textured, the remasters have shown that there's so much more there...my point in question is the frist Del Amitri album. Vinyl version great, CD a zillion times better, every listen, shows me a new part of the song I never knew existed all those years ago. Mind you maybe that was the hairball my boxer dog threw up in the needle way back when!! Its a jolly good thread tho Matthias! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 835 Registered: 03-2006 |
and I think Kurt is zeroing in on it. There's no question that CDs sound better, because of course they do. The point is the benefits of mp3s - the convenience, the access, the relative cost-efficiency - are going to be a worthwhile trade-off for the diminution in quality (20% per Kev) for most people, including me. The record companies really f-ed up, I think, when they weren't able to stop the technology and enterprise that allows people to buy music by the song, as opposed to having to buy a whole album - what a scam that was...I think that's going to be a deciding factor. Even at 99 cents per track, it's still a great bargain compared to having to buy a whole disc of crap you don't want. The vast majority of records, I'm convinced, have 2 to 3 good songs and the rest is bupkes. And, of course, for anything I really love, 16 LL for instance, or King of America, I'm going to want the best source available. Though that stuff'd probably even work on a transistor radio. And hey convenience is everything - I have to laugh at this guy I see when I jog. He has a small TV screen set up in his yard, so he can watch while he waters his plants. Now, it ain't no big screen plasma, but dammit, it keeps him hooked up to that glass teat! We Americans love our telly! And no question that they really had recording knocked on some of those 50's era jazz discs. I have a Sonny Rollins CD that almost literally sounds like he's playing right there in the room... And as for vinyl, you can have it...way too big a pain in the butt to fool with...life is just too short...and to really reap the benefits you have to have one of them 30K systems...the great thing about CDs is that they democratized (relatively) great sound. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 593 Registered: 05-2005 |
I once refused an mp3 copy of an album from a friend because he had gotten is from someone else who only encoded them at 56kbps. He said to me: "When we were younger we would swap tapes that were copies of copies and they did us fine. Any mp3 is better quality than that." He's right. MP3s have democratised access. MP3s are fine, though I definitely still prefer CDs. It's the iPod factor. I saw an ad in the paper yesterday for a CD walkman and marvelled that they were still being made. They look even more quaint than a tape walkman. I like Hardin's comparison with softback books. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 594 Registered: 05-2005 |
BTW, I couldn't give a damn about FLAC. It defeats the entire purpose of digitising - fitting thousands of tracks into an mp3 player. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 588 Registered: 03-2005 |
For me, the iPod is fine for the office and for my trips. Whenever I get around to getting the proper hookup, I'm sure it will be a fine source in the car too. At home, I use the old-fashioned sound system and listen to proper CDs. I don't have a means of hitching up the iPod to the big system so I have no idea whether I'd detect the difference but I suspect that I will. My guess is that the iPod sound will be less "open." Like Spence, and many of us I'll bet, I have a pretty constant companion in tinnitus. But I still seem to have respectable high-frequency hearing. Lossless recording eats up a LOT of capacity. It's great for storage on a CD but it won't serve at all well in an iPod. And, Matthias, sadly I don't know how to transcribe vinyl to digital; I just keep waiting for further reissues. My wish list has reduced considerably over the years. I'm guessing that the person you will get the most help from will be Guy Ewald. He seems to be very knowledgeable about this stuff. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 589 Registered: 03-2005 |
For me, the iPod is fine for the office and for my trips. Whenever I get around to getting the proper hookup, I'm sure it will be a fine source in the car too. At home, I use the old-fashioned sound system and listen to proper CDs. I don't have a means of hitching up the iPod to the big system so I have no idea whether I'd detect the difference but I suspect that I will. My guess is that the iPod sound will be less "open." Like Spence, and many of us I'll bet, I have a pretty constant companion in tinnitus. But I still seem to have respectable high-frequency hearing. Lossless recording eats up a LOT of capacity. It's great for storage on a CD but it won't serve at all well in an iPod. And, Matthias, sadly I don't know how to transcribe vinyl to digital; I just keep waiting for further reissues. My wish list has reduced considerably over the years. I'm guessing that the person you will get the most help from will be Guy Ewald. He seems to be very knowledgeable about this stuff. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 851 Registered: 05-2005 |
I have posted a few things on here over the last few months regarding Napster and MP3s. Most of the new stuff I have acquired in the last 6 months has been via Napster. This stuff is encoded at 192K, and to be frank the difference in sound compared to CD is negligable. The main difference I find is that I have to turn the volume on my amp down when playing a CD album after an MP3 album. It might just be my ears but I find the type of music comes into the equation when rating MP3 sound quality. Something "guitary" like Nirvana doesnt sound as good as something like LCD Soundsystem, Beck or Flaming Lips who use new technology type instrumentation as opposed to good old fashioned guitar,bass and drums, this stuff tends to be better suited to MP3. As I have previously said I also playback MP3s through a good quality offboard Soundblaster (bypassing my PC soundcard) which is hooked up to good quality amp and speakers. I also have a £250 pair of headphones attached to a £200 headphone amp and playing back MP3s this way sounds incredible. My hunch is that in a few years there will be a massive improvement on MP3 and we will think CDs sound crap, its inevitable. | ||
| Eke Member Username: Ekewebb Post Number: 96 Registered: 05-2005 |
I use Steinberg's Clean! to digitise my vinyl (and it would work just as well on cassettes, I've used it with minidiscs on occasion but not cassettes). You plug your record deck through a pre-amp into your computer's soundcard input jack and use the software to record the sound to a .wav file. You can then tinker with the results - mainly getting rid of pops, hisses and crackles either manually or using the auto-clean function - and then split the resulting file into tracks. There's free software, Audacity, that I've heard does much the same thing although I haven't used it. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 240 Registered: 07-2005 |
I use my Ipod for trips walking the dog holidays etc,it gets well used,but at home Iplay LPs and Cd through my HiFi system which is good quality but top end by any means,but I have it connected with Airport express so when I'm tinkering around or have parties I can play music direct from the computer in the room next door (by WiFI).I suppose I play most of my music in the car and I'm luck that when I got this car second hand it had a Bose sound system in it, and that is pretty good. I also have and FM transmitter for the Ipod to play through the fm in the car, but unless it is a long journey are can't really be bothered. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 855 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jerry how do you find the sound from the Ipod through the fm in the car? I tried this with my Zen Micro and found it almost unlistenable, the static just ruined it. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 142 Registered: 05-2005 |
My fm transmitter (Gibson, I believe) works well outside of the metro area. Detroit somehow has almost every dial filled or close to another. When I go up North, the sound is crystal clear. I've also found that when it is heavy cloudy or thunderstorms it also makes it more staticky. But this doesn't make sense to me because I thought only AM is effected by stormy weather. OK, now I'm geeked to connect my stereo to my pc. You guys have given me some ideas. What stores do you buy this stuff from? Best Buy? Circuit City? I hate dealing with those punk kids who know too much already hehe. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 641 Registered: 04-2005 |
As for FM transmitters for iPods, there used to be a great product that was quite cheap ($25 US) that was much better than more expensive models "authorized" by Apple. It was by Newer Technologies, called the RoadTrip. I bought one for myself and it worked tremendously well, with a strong signal and almost-CD quality sound--but I gave it away to a friend during the period I was iPod-less. Big mistake...Newer Technologies stopped making the model for reasons unknown. I emailed them to ask why, since it was a superior product, but they never replied. I may have to resort to eBay; it wouldn't be cool to ask for it back from the friend. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 243 Registered: 04-2006 |
well, this thread is a fine one - and i almost overlooked it. i bought a kensington fm transmitter for my ipod. but i didn't worked well. only when the car stood still it sounds ok, but when you start driving it striked. and in the cities? no chance. so i returned it. everyone seems to use an ipod as a mp3 player. what kind/versions to you own? i have an 60GB ipod (for music and photos) and i am satisfied with (except for the battery). ah, btw: do you have problems with itunes 7? despite the fact that they changed once again the listing for THE-bands i can not update my photos anymore. hope they will soon update their version. i often ask myself i should digitize my vinyl collection. but it seems that this will be 'hard' work - mainly long. so i don't bought any software until now. maybe i will try eke's recommendation 'audacity'. i use my ipod only on the way to work (and similar occasions) and never listened to mp3 on my stereo. therefore i don't have any comparison and don't know if there is really a significant loss - at least for our human ears. i just know that the apple earbuds are good, but sounds a little dump. maybe i should upgrade like kurt.... btw: does anyone know if there is a possibility to unify the loudness on the ipod. it is annoying to change the sound level when i am in the shuffle modus. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 242 Registered: 07-2005 |
Kevin I've got an Itrip which is made by Belkin, it is good as long as you turn up the car stereo a bit. I like it for long journeys as it takes a few secs to tune in and fiddle with the radio, but once going it is great I'm glad i got it.I should use it more, but I suppose the main reason for not doing it is that mmost journeys I do are short and would not want to leave it in the car with the risk of being broken into I could take it with me but it is all a bit too much fiddling around during the day. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 846 Registered: 03-2006 |
I saw something at Fry's (big, scary electronics store they have out here) that I should've picked up. It was a little docking station thingie for your iPod that connects up to your stereo and can be operated with a remote control...I'm all about the remote - if it doesn't have one then, what's the point? |