| Author | Message | ||
     Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2059 Registered: 10-2004 |
So, FoRW was released 10 years ago this month. I'm wondering, how do people rate it now? I was initially so excited that I bought it the day it came out and at first thought it was not bad, and that it would maybe grow on me. Today, it's the Go-Betweens album I like the least, and each time I listen to it, I like it even less! It seemed like a miracle to have them back together, but I've always felt they just weren't firing on all cylinders yet (and it would take them until OA to get there). It always sounded to me like a tentative come-back, like they were very cautious about dipping their toes in the water, unsure as to what the response would be and therefore playing it very safe. It feels largely low key, and the production is no frills, the sound dry. The arrangements don't have the kind of sophisticated flair that those on some of the 80s albums had, but most importantly, their once abundant melodic tendencies are generally quite muted and downplayed here. For me the best song is "Magic in Here." It's got the most distinctive and memorable melody, and Janet Weiss' "what would Lindy have done" approach to the drums works well. "Spirit" has potential, but verges on generic. Songs like "The Clock," "Heart and Home," and "Orpheus Beach" sound very generic to these ears. "Surfing Magazines" is kind of fun and hints at some nice melodic possibilities, but it is *not* the classic song that I think Forster wants it to be when he plays epic versions of it in live shows. "German Farmhouse" stands out with its muscular Sleater Kinney guitars and Forster's enigmatically funny lyrics, but at the end of the day, it's not much more than a silly diversion. "He Lives My Life" is actually quite beautiful, but I feel like it was let down by an overly staid arrangement. "Going Blind" is kind of annoyingly catchy, but is slightly redeemed by Carrie Brownstein's extremely McLennan-esque lead guitar melody. "When She Sang About Angels" is just not my cup of tea. My sense is that people here generally rate this album quite highly, and that I'm the only one with any real disdain for it, but I'm curious to see how people think it has aged, how people hear it 10 years later. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2060 Registered: 10-2004 |
Crap! I meant to post this in the Go-Betweens section, not off-topic. Maybe a moderator can move it? Sorry!!! | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1885 Registered: 09-2006 |
Funny how perceptions differ - I'd always thought that the board's feelings on this one ranged over a pretty wide spectrum. Count me in the Liked It a Great Deal Then, Love It A Little More With Each Play corner. | ||
| Richard May Member Username: Richm Post Number: 2 Registered: 07-2010 |
I've always thought that the songs were really good but the album was let down slightly by the lo-fi production. Having said that, my favourite of the comeback albums was 'Bright Yellow Bright Orange' which not many other fans rate that highly. | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 1046 Registered: 08-2004 |
I like Forw a lot. I think they achieved with that record. When they should have had their feet up & sensibly accepted middle age. They came up with a pop album that was at least youthful & energetic. I prefer it slightly to BYBO. Both are more fun than OA, IMHO. | ||
| Matsrep Member Username: Matsrep Post Number: 100 Registered: 10-2005 |
It is my favourite come back album. I think it is great, actually (bar Going Blind). The b-sides are also fine. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1510 Registered: 08-2006 |
FORW is my second favorite comeback album, behind OA. If I have a criticism, it's that the differences between Grant's and Robert's songs on this one are so stark. Robert's are either skeletal or kind of VU-ish, and Grant's are, well, typically Grant. It sounds less like a band than two talented songwriters sharing an album. By OA they sounded a lot more cohesive. But I still love it, and I loved it then. In fact, Jeff's mention of its tenth anniversary caused me to dig out this, which I may have posted here somewhere before. Can't believe it's been 10 years: http://www.dancingaboutarc.com/essays/go betweensessay.html | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1511 Registered: 08-2006 |
Huh. I just re-read the essay I linked to and, aside from a slight dis of Before Holywood (which I used to underrate - silly boy), I guess I still stand by my main thesis. Weird it's a decade old. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2064 Registered: 10-2004 |
Richard, I definitely prefer BYBO to Rachel Worth. In particular, I've always felt that Grant's songs on BYBO were quite strong, and the songs in general seem more interesting than those on FORW. BYBO *still* sounds like they were being a little cautious, though, a wee bit safe. Rob, I would definitely agree that Robert's songs on FORW are stark compared to Grant's. One thing I remember thinking at the time of the album's release was that I felt it sounded as if both Robert and Grant were picking up where their respective solo careers had left. Like, it almost didn't quite *sound* like the Go-Betweens, but like Robert and Grant taking solo songs they'd written recently and throwing them together on one album. And in fact, according to David Nichols' book, that's kind of what actually happened. Also, harping on the arrangements again, in the past, the Go-Betweens' albums had benefitted greatly from outside influence. Think of the rich Hammond organ on Before Hollywood, or the sophisticated arrangements of Dean Speedwell that are all over Liberty Belle, not to mention Amanda's viola and Oboe on Tallulah and 16LL. These all functioned quite nicely as melodic enhancements, and I always found that to be greatly downplayed on FORW. I think in many ways it's their starkest album. | ||
| Gee Member Username: Gee Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2005 |
I absolutely love it, with the exception of Orpheus Beach. I think it was the perfect comeback album as the production set them firmly as an independent band in their sound, rather than the rather AOR proposition they were becoming before the split. They then had the opportunity to work back to their more natural sound over the next two albums. They grew to be a far better live band with Glenn and Adele though. I remember Robert snarling at that poor drummer on the FORW tour. I miss the Go Betweens. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2475 Registered: 03-2005 |
I just think of FORW as what it is: a tentative step to reunion. Crucially, their drummer was missing. They hadn't really been playing together all that long and it sounds like it. They weren't a band yet. What surprises me is that the songs aren't stronger. Both Grant and Robert were several years from their last albums, but to my ears half of each of their songs sound half-finished. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3664 Registered: 05-2005 |
I liked it from the very start as I was so excited to have a new Go-Betweens record, but I didn't like some of the individual songs. Surfing Magazines has grown on me a lot over the years, but I still don't like German Farmhouse. The Clock is one of my favourite Go-Betweens songs. | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 380 Registered: 10-2006 |
This was my “comeback” album to the group after I’d shrugged my shoulders a bit with BYBO – it just sounded full of wit, intelligence, melody compared to other stuff I’d been listening to, I loved the fact that Robert was singing about German farmhouses and surfing magazines and swapped lives and poetess pretensions rather than whatever drivel so many songwriters seemed to come up with and the way his sardonic, rumbly songs were set against Grant’s lyrical tunes, I loved the line “everything fresh at the source in this land”, a great line in a great song I absolutely played to death. I’ve never been much for production values or sophisticated arrangements. This brought me back to a band I’d once enjoyed and now loved and to their other wonderful records, and then, of course, to my bank manager’s despair, and to record shop owner Sad Bruno’s delight, to this very board. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2065 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'd agree with Randy's point about some of the songs sounding half-finished. I'd also describe some of them as underdeveloped. It sounds like they spent more time fleshing out the songs on BYBO and OA. Gee - by the time I saw them on the FORW tour they were in the US and they'd already ditched their drummer. I was a bit disappointed seeing them basically do the acoustic thing again, although it was nice seeing them play with Adele, at least. | ||
| Richard May Member Username: Richm Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2010 |
Jeff, I agree that Grant had some really strong songs on BYBO. I really love all of his songs on that album especially 'Old Mexico' and 'Mrs Morgan'. | ||
| Thomas Keitsch Member Username: Thokei Post Number: 25 Registered: 06-2005 |
Comeback Albums: 1. FORW 2. OA 3. BYBO | ||
| Richard May Member Username: Richm Post Number: 4 Registered: 07-2010 |
For me it would be: 1. BYBO 2. OA 3. FORW Although, I'd like to add that I love all three of them. | ||
| Matsrep Member Username: Matsrep Post Number: 101 Registered: 10-2005 |
I'm with Thomas: Comeback Albums: 1. FORW 2. OA 3. BYBO | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2066 Registered: 10-2004 |
For me: 1. OA 2. BYBO 3. FORW | ||
| Gee Member Username: Gee Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2005 |
1.FORW 2.BYBO 3.OA I find Grant's songs on Oceans Apart pretty weak with the exception of Finding You, which is still a little dull. BYBO could have been a great album if it had been produced by Mark Wallis - it had such a flat production which lets a strong set of songs down. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2067 Registered: 10-2004 |
Gee - I agree with you on BYBO's production - it's extremely flat and doesn't do the songs justice. I enjoy Grant's songs on OA, but definitely think that Robert's are stronger. OA is Robert's album the way BYBO is Grant's. | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 383 Registered: 10-2006 |
I remember when they played Too much of one thing on the DVD and I thought wow, great song, how come I don't have the album with that one on it...I'd heard BYBO several times by then, but it hadn't even registered as the wonderful thing it is, it's just thrown away on there. | ||
| Matsrep Member Username: Matsrep Post Number: 104 Registered: 10-2005 |
Too much of one thing is the highlight on BYBO in my opinion. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2071 Registered: 10-2004 |
At first I really dug Too Much of One Thing, but then I got kind of sick of it. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2482 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'm currently listening to BYBO. I've always liked the sheer sound of this record. It's clean and crystalline. But it's still too stark in terms of development. On every song I can hear arrangement possibilities not pursued. I have a better opinion of Robert's songs than seems to be the case for many posters here. While I always knock "Caroline & I"--if it's about a woman who lost her mother abruptly when she was only 25 years old let's touch on that, ok?--I really like "In Her Diary" which, IMO, could have been given a real proper band arrangement and been as gripping in its way as "The Clarke Sisters." It has all the odd chord progression bones to support it. And I think "Something For Myself" could be one of those oddball gems like "Spirit of a Vampire" or "Twin Layers of Lightning" if some time and imagination were expended on its arrangement. I'd push the levers on "Make Her Day" deeper into bubblegum pop territory ala "I Just Get Caught Out" (gee, can you tell I really like Robert's half of "Tallulah"?) Grant's songs veer dangerously into blandville which could be greatly ameliorated with some actual arrangements. For example, there isn't really an awful lot happening in "Crooked Lines" when you get down to it but a good arrangement would have made the "Athens or Sparta" line stick out better and lift up the song better, though it would have also helped if Grant had spent another week or two on the lyrics. "Mrs. Morgan" is wonderful. Imagine what it would be like if all four players had spent a bunch of time developing their respective parts for the song. I've always really liked "Unfinished Business" but, again, it needs to be pushed harder in the direction of the essential loneliness that it expresses. It should be devastating, and a proper arrangement and production would have done that. Even the shrill reverb-drenched demo "You Won't Find It Again" creates that atmosphere better. Remember how far out of the conventional two guitars/bass/drums box the GoBees were willing to wander now and then, even before Amanda joined them. They needed to do that more on BYBO. Still, it's a pleasure to listen to, as I don't very often. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3675 Registered: 05-2005 |
I still love Too Much Of One Thing. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 596 Registered: 04-2005 |
Me too. It was better live maybe? And for me it always brings back memories of Café de la Danse in Paris and them dedicating it to June Carter, who had died that day. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2073 Registered: 10-2004 |
"...stark in terms of development..."; ..."arrangement possibilities not pursued..." Randy, I think these two descriptions of yours really sum up a lot of my issues with FORW and BYBO. At least BYBO has generally better (than FORW) songwriting going for it, but yeah, one can hear lots of melodic possibilities that just aren't fleshed out. It's like with both albums, they didn't spend a lot of time working out or developing the songs and they just went into the studio, recorded what they had, and that was pretty much it. And the producers/engineers of both albums seemed to take a really hands-off approach, and for me, it's the more pro-active producers that have really helped Robert and Grant's songs fulfill their melodic potential. | ||
| Graham Twyford Member Username: Graham_twyford Post Number: 41 Registered: 05-2005 |
I don't think I've posted here since Grant passed away. Anyway my tuppence worth: FORW is definitely a bunch of solo songs thrown together. I remember Robert playing a solo version of 'Spirit' in Dublin, June 1998 I think. I always liked 'Heart and Home', 'The Clock' and 'He Lives My Life'. The rest are OK but it's a pretty uncohesive album. And 'When She Sang About Angels' does nothing for me - I think it's my least favourite GBs album closer along with 'Hope Then Strife'. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1963 Registered: 01-2005 |
I'll echo Jeff and go with... 1. OA 2. BYBO 3. FORW I like Rachel's and BYBO songs much better live, so I'll agree with Jeff and Randy that the production values were less then what they could have been and a stronger producer was lacking for both albums. That problem was cured with OA, save for the distortion problem. |