| Author | Message | ||
     spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 406 Registered: 05-2005 |
Any ideas anyone? What model, I want one... Funny but I saw a guitar mag with Tom Verlaine in, and he currently plays and seems to stick with a modified Fender Stratocaster, now that's all I seem to see Mr Forster holding on to at gigs these days, apart from some egg shaker shaking, that he does so out of time that we can do nothing but love him for it! I think its coz the Strat is so reliable and easly to play. I always want to fiddle with Robert's knob though, and take the presence down on his Fender Twin and fatten the sound up a bit!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 331 Registered: 04-2005 |
Yeah, spence, I'm with you on Robert's guitar tone. No need to add distortion or sustain, but it seems like he settles for the thinnest possible tone. I love Strats; it doesn't surprise me it's the guitar so many players end up going back to. If my house was on fire, my Strat is the first thing I'd save (after the other living creatures, of course). | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 409 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yeah Kurt, everyone seems to get drawn back. the Strat is essentially the first guitar you get a s a kid, then you explore then ya come back to it in your later years!!!!! Funny thing is 10 years ago you couldn't give strats away now they fetch a fortune, 20 years ago you couldn't give semi aoucstic's waway, now a fortune too...Malcolm Ross of Josef K just sold a strat to Keith Richards' jeweller for a tidy sum, I think it was a pre cbs, I would have loved one of Malcolm's Jags he used in Josef K and Orange Juice but he sold them to Luke Haines when he played in The Auteurs for a bit, . I held it, the STrat, and it was the heaviest beast you could imagine... I always used to play a Fender Jag, quite thin soound, but I loved it. My last one got nicked, since then I have an Epiphone Riviera semi acoustic, which is a really powerful sounding guitar. I think it was made in '94. Just bought a nice Martin acoustic. i tested 5 acoustics out from Takamine to Taylor, and at the end of the trial I picked up the Martin and played a G, and the guy from the store, said, "I;ll put all these back then!". Sorry guys, gone off on a muso, must move to off topic if no one knows Grant's guitar. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 382 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yeah, Spence, Martins ARE great. The only thing I've ever heard against them is that sometimes they can be a little bit too loud for recording. Since I'm not a professional I don't know any better; I just turn the recording gain down. I would like to try a Maton acoustic though. Just for the exoticism. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 422 Registered: 05-2005 |
yeah, my days of rockin up to 11 have gone Randy! A Maton, any good? I played a Gibson Jumbo acoustic, £ 3,500, it was shit, it played badly, (or I did!), and it sounded awful, but looked a million bucks$$$$$$$$$$$$! | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 74 Registered: 04-2005 |
Fender Jaguars? 'I slept with the Subway Sect/ the Subway Sect slept with me/in the back of a Fender Jaguar/underneath the decaying tree' sneers Davy Henderson in The Nectarine No.9's 'the end of definition' (I Love Total Destruction). Indeed the whole CD apparently features 'All Fender Jaguars by the NN9 the whole lot' (whatever that means). And the track features the god-like genius and intensity of Malcolm Ross, unwinding one of his taut riffs. Did you check out the wild Josef K shirts in that Postcard fanzine, Spence? I posted it on http://perso.wanadoo.fr/Vidoni-Kerr/Edwyn_2.htm | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 325 Registered: 10-2004 |
speaking of maton guitars, i would gladly give up one of my toes to have robert's semi-hollow body maton from the back of "danger in the past." that is my dream guitar. and on the subject of strats, i understand why everyone wants to play one. they're comfortable, easy to play, and pretty versatile. but man, i have been anti-strat nearly all my life. the reasons are mainly fickle, having to do with the aesthetic. i much prefer jazzmasters and jaguars. i don't play my jazzmaster so much anymore, but i think those are the coolest looking solid body electric guitars ever made. these days i'm obsessed with semi-hollow body electrics. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 383 Registered: 03-2005 |
Spence, I have no idea whether a Maton is any good but I spent some time wandering around their website once and also reading users' comments about the guitars and they sound like they might be pretty good. They are made the proper way by a small company in Oz and, because of that, pretty close to impossible to find here in the States. It's probably just as unlikely you'll find many in the U.K., but visit their website and see what you think. I just like the idea of having a weird Oz guitar that nobody around me has. One nice luxury of where I live is the short walk to the Sunset Boulevard Guitar Center. I hate the store but they do have a nice selection of over-priced vintage instruments. Spending a little time on an old Gibson acoustic and then moving to an old D-28 allows no doubt which guitar is the better one. I use a cheapie Mexican Strat for my 6 string electric applications. As Jeff says, it's easy to play and versatile. It's also a lot lighter than the vast Gretsch Country Gentleman I always thought would be a cool guitar to have. One of these days I'll graduate to a proper American Strat. I decided to forgo the lure of buying a guitar on the basis of looks when I got my electric 12. I was all set to get a Rick for obvious reasons and it is such a fabulous looking guitar. But the one I tried was a b---h to play. I wound up paying twice as much for a handmade Roger Giffin 12 that is much lighter and all but plays itself but looks like it belongs to a 70s revival hair band. And I've never regretted the choice. | ||
| Geoff Holmes Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 130 Registered: 05-2005 |
Matons are sort of the patriotic acoustic of choice here in Auz - most of the big names with any cred will play them (Paul Kelly etc). Neil Finn has even been known to play a Maton "palour" guitar at times. I find most of them very boomy - not enough sparkling treble. Having said that, I do have a Maton that was made in the early 80's in Japan called a Tasman. Guitar playing friends want me to leave it to them in my Will it's so good! I only had a go of a Gibson Jumbo once and it was better than mine, Spence, not something I say lightly!!! Randy, I've got long thin fingers so my Ric isn't so much a problem, although, I agree, its a guitar made for playing by 10 year old girls (...oh NO!!!!). What do the Roger Griffins sound like? I tend buy on the sound and I haven't seen or heard of them. When I got my Ric (Fireglow 360/12) I played a George Harrison one and it was too trebly for even me. A mate of mine's got the brown fireglow/red scatchplate Fender Jag that I love. Generally though, I find Fenders hard to make sound really good - maybe that says something about my playing!! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 423 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great comments thanks guys... Jeff, I have always been with you on the look of Jazz and Jags. its petty, (not Tom) but the fist time i saw a pic of Josef K and T that was it. Probably more down to Josef K with me. I agree, it was just about the coolness, they can be a very difficult guitar to play unless they are constantly set up / or modified. I am after an American reissue '62 Jag. i quite like the white headstock ltd edition Olympic white Jazzmasters on from a Japanese shop that sells them opn ebay. incidentally, a guy has John Squire's (Stone Roses) modified Jag for sale on ebay http://search.ebay.com/search/search.dll?sofocus=bs&sbrftog=1&from=R10&satitle=f ender+jaguar&sacat=-1%26catref%3DC6&bs=Search&fsop=1%26fsoo%3D1&coaction=compare &copagenum=1&coentrypage=search&fgtp=&sargn=-1%26saslc%3D2&sadis=200&fpos=ZIP%2F Postal&ftrt=1&ftrv=1&saprclo=&saprchi=. I used to play my Jag like Josef K in the old days, but now with The Winnebago orchestra it would be handled with care! There is somethin about the sound of a jag/jazz though...the Jazz is a fatter sound? OI too love the Danger sleeve with the Maton! Great idea that pic... Andrew cheers for the link, I have that fanzine, its great. Yes I think I may do some Josef K shirts. I have some never before seen pics of them, which I could distress and screen print from and Malcolm and Paul are usually sound with everything I do for them, as they were when I set up the josefk.net 6 years ago, when no one was interested! Now look at em. the site incidentally has been upadted its just that I don't know Flash. Its a bit all over the place, lok wise... but that's cool. Geoff, I'm off to buy a Maton! Randy I'm coming over to unset Boulevard Guitar Center!!!!!!!!! PS I have a cheap acoustic made by Stagg, and you know what, its alright, does me for knocking down ideas, but really its about as credible as the cheap guitars you could buy in England in the 70's home shopping catalogue's, that went by the name of Satellite!!! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 326 Registered: 10-2004 |
spence - yeah, i think the jazzmaster may have a slightly fatter, or fuller sound. the one thing i found that needs modifying with a jag or jazz is the bridge. those stock bridges are crap. they're designed to pivot back and forth for when you're using the tremolo bar. but the saddles slide around. i remember whenever i'd bend or play something even a tad aggressively on the high e string, the saddle would slide up and down, and sometimes the high e would just pop out of the saddle completely. so i had a vox bridge put in, which looks similar, but doesn't pivot, and is a lot sturdier. of course now i run the risk of breaking the strings when using the tremolo bar, but i never use that anyway. but yeah, a better bridge makes all the difference. my jazzmaster is a bit of a mutant: a '63 white body w/ tortoise shell pickguard, but with a reissue jazzmaster neck with white headstock. it's been through hell and back but still looks classy and sounds great. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 385 Registered: 03-2005 |
Geoff, thanks for your info on the sound of a Maton. For info about the Giffin, see http://www.giffinguitars.com/12strings2.htm It is a hollow body. Mine has two OBL pickups but I think you can specify whatever you want. The sound of mine is a bit fatter than the typical Rick sound, almost as if you combined the sound of a Rick and the sound of a 6 string Gretsch. I never use the "bridge" position on the three-way toggle because it sounds too thin but the neck position gives this lovely ringing mid-range sound. And it's really easy to play. Spence, another cool aspect of this otherwise obnoxious (both the staff and the clientele) Guitar Center is the provenance of a lot of the used guitars. They clearly come from old session players and that means that they are invariably perfectly set up. By the way, Spence, I figure the oddball cheap guitars can provide novel sounds for recording so I wouldn't necessarily knock them. Remember Grant and Robert's homage to Amanda Brown's cheap acoustic used on 16LL. Fortunately for me I have a small house and have to restrict my guitar selection. Guitars take up space, especially the acoustics which really need to stay in their bulky cases when not in use. Because otherwise there are a LOT of oddball guitars that I'd be too tempted to buy. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 414 Registered: 03-2006 |
Randy & Spence, speaking of guitars, CHEAP ones, specifically, do either of you know anything about a brand called Teisco Del Ray (sic?)? I sold one, probably way too cheap, when I was moving... And Randy, apart from the obnoxious staff, is the Guitar Ctr. a good place to get a deal on a nice used guitar? There's one in OC. Anyplace else you recommend in So Cal? I'm sort of in the market, as I'm currently playing a loaner... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 388 Registered: 03-2005 |
Hardin, I dunno about the OC outlet but the Sunset Boulevard store has laughably gigantic prices on most of the used instruments. Maybe they negotiate them way down but they're so enormous I wouldn't even bother. I bought one of my guitars secondhand off eBay. The price was reasonable and it only needed a moderate amount of refurbishing. But, admittedly, it's pretty risky to buy something without even hearing it first. I'd suggest the Recycler online and also some of the smaller guitar shops. Sunset Boulevard has a whole host of them. I haven't personally heard of Teisco Del Ray but my knowledge is pretty hit-or-miss. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 341 Registered: 04-2005 |
I've seen a few Teiscos over the years--dunno if they have much value now. There are a few pictures and minimal descriptions here: http://www.myrareguitars.com/1960guitars.html As for Guitar Center, I don't think it's a good place to buy used. I've always been unimpressed by the crappy used equipment they have and the prices seem way too high. eBay, craigslist, or smaller indie music stores are probably a better way to go for used guitars. Heck, maybe you'd like to buy a nice barely used Danelectro reissue from me! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 390 Registered: 03-2005 |
Love that link Kurt. | ||
| allan kingdom Member Username: Allan_kingdom Post Number: 1 Registered: 04-2006 |
Hello, i'm a new member of the board, but have been a GBs fan since i saw them support Orange Juice in 1983. Lovely discussion on Jags & Jazzmasters, I remember seeing Robert play a sunburst Jag in 1988 at the Astoria, but it hasn't appeared since, sadly. I used to live in LA, and would often drool at the GC used collection. It's OK for new guitars, but i bought my used martin off of a kid in OC who advertised on eBay. Spence, you actually held a one of Malcolm Ross' guitars, wow! was it the blond strat? so cool. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 426 Registered: 05-2005 |
Welcome Allan! I remember his Jag too, just summit about em! Yeah it was the blonde strat. Randy, I'm with you on guitar sounds from cheap'oddball brands, I used a cheap spanish guitar on some stuff and it sounded wicked. Jeff, yep, its always a case of doing something with the bridge unfortunately. I have just put the Martin and Epiphone Riviera in for a set up as we're recording the second album next week, and I had a quote for a Bigsby trem on the Riviera, £200. It should look wicked. Talking of guitars, does anyone reckon the 12 string break on bachelor kisses is a baldwin? It sounds too jaded to be a Rickenbacker. It might be a Burns...??? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 395 Registered: 03-2005 |
Spence, your question zooms out there well beyond my little knowledge. I know a number of British groups like the Zombies and the Hollies used the Burns in the 60s but I've never actually encountered one of those guitars up close and personal. And I am not familiar with the Baldwin at all. But your question also reminds me of an earlier thread where it was commented (maybe by Jeff?) that the Go Bees hadn't used a 12 string anywhere and none of us could think of an example. I had always assumed a 12 was used on "The Wrong Road" but a closer listen suggested a flanged 6 string. I guess we all forgot "Bachelor Kisses." | ||
| Gee Member Username: Gee Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 |
I'm pretty sure the solo on 'Right Here' is an electric 12... | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 437 Registered: 05-2005 |
Very well spotted, there is no way that is a chorus'd Strat or something, great spot that man, or woman!!!!!!!!! (there is a chorus'd Strat strumming in the background) | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 438 Registered: 05-2005 |
Bow Down has it too | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 439 Registered: 05-2005 |
Listening to Bow Down again, the 12 string sounds the same as was used by Nick Currie in the Happy Family. that was a Baldwin. I may bewrong, but I feel pretty sure. Sorry if I'm sounding anal, but that's what we here for ain't it!? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2004 |
i'm not entirely sure that's a 12-string on right here. maybe robert vickers could enlighten us on where and when 12-strings were used on go-betweens recordings??? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 443 Registered: 05-2005 |
jeff its not easy to spot, but I have listened very closely and it does seem to be present. You're right is Mr Vic there?! | ||
| allan kingdom Member Username: Allan_kingdom Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006 |
12 string or chorus? I'm not sure. I was a heavy user of the chorus pedal in the mid - late 80's. Robert's strat on the Live in London sounds chorused at times. Is it time to dust off my old CE-2? | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 43 Registered: 05-2005 |
If you played a 12 string wouldn't you have to then tune 12 strings instead of just 6? Wouldn't that make it fairly unlikey one would be on a GBs album? Seriously though, I don't recall ever seeing a 12 string in a GBs recording session but I could be wrong. It's possible but I just don't remember it. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 444 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great comment! Suppose that's the thing, us asking these type of questions is like what brand of petrol did you use in your motor 20 years ago! | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 44 Registered: 05-2005 |
Excuse my flipancy. It is a fair question and I think if there had been a 12 string sitting in a corner of a studio we were in it would have got used. But neither R or G were the kind of people who owned multiple guitars and remember we didn't even have stable places to live most of the time. Up to 16LL you couldn't own more than you could fit into a cab. I think it's chorused but as I say I could have missed something. I usually took a break after recording the bass parts and sometimes missed the basic guitar parts being done. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 409 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ah, Robert slaps us with the cold wet washcloth of reality . . . . If the band lived on a shoestring for so long no wonder Robert bailed out and no wonder Lindy felt that she should receive more than the conventional amount of royalties for the records. For the umpteenth time, my hat off to all of you. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 337 Registered: 10-2004 |
i listened to a few of the songs in question last night, and it really did cross my mind (before reading robert's post this morning) that the solo in bachelor kisses, for example, could've been filtered through a chorus pedal and possibly some sort of octave effect. guitar parts on the other 2 songs we've mentioned could've been filtered through similar effects, of maybe even overdubbed with 2 parts played an octave apart to give it a 12-string kind of feel. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 445 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeff, I used to play 12 string a lot, a Vox Teardrop in fact and I know how that sounded, and the sound in Bachelor Kisses is the same sound, the sound of the plectrum dragging across the extra strings, I can almost see it, exactly. Maybe chorused guitars elesewhere but that's a 12 string on BC for sure. Mind you, who cares? We do! But, who gives a damn, I' don't profess to muso leanings and will never do. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 342 Registered: 10-2004 |
Spence, I play electric 12-string on almost every single Concubines song, and believe me, few people are as obsessed with 12-strings as I am! I play a '67 Guild Starfire 12-string semi-hollow body. I also have a 12-string Vox Phantom, which I don't play because it sounds like ass compared to the Guild, but I keep it because it looks so cool. All I know is that I have seen some pretty crafty ways of replicating the sound of a 12-string when the real thing isn't available. Although, it's entirely possible that there *was* a 12-string sitting around the studio when they did Bachelor Kisses, and that Robert Vickers happened to be out for a pint when Robert or Grant discovered it and decided put it to use. So who knows??? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 350 Registered: 04-2005 |
I laughed out loud at Robert's comment about tuning a 12-string guitar. Doesn't that just explain so much about Forster and McLennan? Jeff, what do you think about the Fender Strat 12-strings that periodically are available? I can't say I've ever seen a professional use a Strat 12 on stage. I tried one in a music store years ago, immediately broke a string on it, and was too embarrassed to continue playing...plus I knew I'd never figure out how to tune the thing. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 351 Registered: 04-2005 |
I just read your earlier post, Jeff, and saw your remark about being anti-Strat. So let me change the question to: did Fender make any other notable 12-string electrics? Was there ever a 12-string Jaguar or Jazzmaster? I think there might have been a Coronado 12. That was a neat but ill-fated guitar. Feedback monster! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 343 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kurt, you're right I probably wouldn't care much for a Fender 12-string strat. However, Fender used to make an electric 12-string with a Jazzmaster body shape, but with different pick-ups. Those probably fetch a lot of money these days. The only person I've ever seen play one was Robert Smith on the Siouxsie & the Banshees live "Nocturne" video, from one of his stints with them. He used it for a song or two. I've never played one, obviously, but knowing how nice Jazzmasters and Jaguars feel *and* sound, they're probably quite nice. A quick Google search came up with this: http://www.hobokenvintage.com/pic/guitars/blue12.jpg and this: http://www.tundramusic.com/images/110016_FF.jpg 12-strings aren't necessarily hard to tune, just time consuming. As long as you've got a decent guitar tuner, it's not much of a problem. You just better pray you've got a 12-string that stays *in* tune pretty well. The Coronados were cool! I used a friend's Coronado bass once on a recording. Rather than plug it into an amp, the engineer just put a condenser mic up to it bass itself, as if it were acoustic, and it sounded awesome. | ||
| allan kingdom Member Username: Allan_kingdom Post Number: 3 Registered: 04-2006 |
Edwyn used to play a "hockey stick" sunburst Fender electric 12. He claimed it was Jim McGuinn's guitar of choice in the studio. I'd love a Coronado though they aint cheap these days. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 447 Registered: 05-2005 |
I used to love Roddy Frame's Gibson Scotty Moore, think he played it thru a Roland Jazz 120 when I used to watch them. Kurt there is a new Jaguar Bariton out that looks great. Jeff you're right about replicating 12 strings, out of interest we're starting laying down the next CD for the Winnebago orchestra and the studio are sorting out a Variax, which has a couple of great sounding 12 string accoustics in it!!!!!! | ||
| Pat Boland Member Username: Pat_boland Post Number: 10 Registered: 05-2005 |
For the record, the great man played a Larrivee acoustic guitar on the DVD. http://www.larrivee.com/flash/products/products.html | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 456 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks Pat. Dunno bout you, but its not the smae is it on here!? Big respect to everyone from the msg board. |