| Author | Message | ||
     andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 267 Registered: 04-2006 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qjqR8gt8ZYI second anniversary of john peel's death. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 268 Registered: 04-2006 |
isn't this fantastic? not the cause, but the video. on both counts. a lot of greetings a peel and fall fan | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 1004 Registered: 03-2006 |
It is fantastic and fascinating, Andreas. Thanks for sharing. I was trying to think of American radio personalities comparable to Peel, and you know, I don't think there's ever been any quite like him. There've been some larger than life characters, like Alan Freed and Wolfman Jack, but nobody with quite the same style, taste and erudition, nobody with that kind of range...Kevin would probably know this - didnt one of the English music mags put out a freebie disc consisting of songs from Peel's famous box? | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 30 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's true, LK: In my experience, American DJs generally aren't tastemakers, especially today. I can think of radio stations that shaped my listening habits - I went to college in the hometown of the venerable alternative station WOXY, and when I was growing up, Chicago's WXRT was still pretty adventurous - but not individual DJs. I'm sure there are DJs out there with great taste in music, but they're likely hemmed in by restrictive playlists and the demands of appealing to a broad audience. It's too bad, because who hears more new music than a DJ? It's like, c'mon guys, share! I wish there was more of a market for DJs who played what they liked, not necessarily what polling tells them people want to hear. If radio is only playing what we know we like, it's no wonder record sales are in the crapper. No one's discovering anything new. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1047 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK - sorry dont remember that freebie. to be honest I have long stopped playing these freebie CDs that you get with Uncut etc. i usually find I either have the songs already, or have absolutely no interest in the remainder. the only exception i make is when they do themed discs, like when Mojo did a Trojan records reggae disc, they also did a blues disc too that was nice. its a long way from c81 and c86 mind you, and I suppose these "new music" sampler discs can come in really handy for people who are a bit more casual about listening to new music than i am. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 789 Registered: 04-2005 |
Some would argue that Nic Harcourt (not an American, of course) is as close as we have to a DJ tastemaker in the States. But his tastes are far more conservative than Peel's. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 790 Registered: 04-2005 |
That's a great clip, by the way--thanks for posting it, Andreas. You know, I bet I'm as ignorant about the Fall as anybody on this board. Of course, I know what they sound like and I've heard plenty of them on college radio over the years, but I've never bought an album. Where should a total Fall neophyte start? | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 289 Registered: 07-2005 |
Being a recent Fall devotee ( apart from a couple I bought in th eighties) the compilation 20,000 Fall fans can't be wrong is absolutely great,Then I got Hex Education hour, then This Nations Saving Grace then Grotesque. There are alot of rereleases out now with double CD package which are good value.I'd also be interested where to go or get next. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1050 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt, I have bought every Fall album since their debut in 1979, so hopefully this allows me to say that if theres anybody on this board who is more familiar with The Falls music than me I would love to go for a pint with them  If you were looking to dip your toe in the water, jerry is right by saying that 50,000 Fall Fans Cant Be Wrong is a fantastic comp. If I could recommend some studio albums, my favourites are Grotesque, Hex Enduction Hour, This Nations Saving Grace, The Infotainment Scan, Bend Sinister, The Wonderful and Frightening World and Fall Heads Roll. The Fall are the only band I can think of that I still look forward to their new album almost 30 years later. If I were to be critical of them, I would say that they went through a slump in the mid 90s to early 00s, and after the albums I have listed, if you did a lucky dip from the remaining 20 or so albums you cant really go wrong with which ever one you picked. obviously some albums are better than others, but a patchy Fall album is another bands masterpiece in my (biased)opinion. Hope this helps. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 769 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK, Kevin, it was NME that did that disc. I have it somewhere. I remember most of it as being very good. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 1010 Registered: 03-2006 |
Curious, how many discs would that be, Kevin, the full Fall catalog? 50-60? 100? | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1052 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK, I have all the Fall studio albums, and most of the compilations. by my reckoning that means there should not be a Fall song that was recorded in a studio that I do not have, whether it be a single or album track. I'm not sure how many albums this adds up to - certainly over 40 I would think. As said before, I dont really care for live albums, of which the Fall seem to have dozens available!! | ||
| John B. Member Username: John_b Post Number: 36 Registered: 10-2006 |
thanks for sharing your Fall-enthusiasm here, Kevin. Just like Kurt I am considering a closer look into the world of Mr. E. Smith. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 795 Registered: 04-2005 |
Kevin, thanks for the recommendations on the Fall. With such a huge catalog, I think the compilation is the way to start, even though it feels a little bit like cheating. Does the comp have "Totally Wired," "The Classical," and their cover of "Victoria," which are the three songs of theirs I know best? | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 274 Registered: 04-2006 |
ok, kevin. you won. :-) i am just on place two or three (don't forget DONAT which posted on the your favourite band threat that he owns much of the fall's output) , because i lost faith when you still bought. cheers to you. but with the dawn of the new millenium i became a fall lover once again. kurt, the 50,000 fall fans can't be wrong double cd conatins The classical and victoria, but unfortunately totally wired is missing. what i recommend is the complete john peel sessions. this box is marvellous and if you don't want to buy each album of the band you have very much of their songs on that. from 1978 until 2004 6 cd's, a fine booklet with informations about the sessions. the fall have do a lot with my life. for years they were my favourite or one of my favourite bands ever. and mark e.smith saved once my life. i think i have posted this story months ago on this board, so i don't wnat to bore you with taht once again. i own a plectrum of brix which mark gave me sometimes. but where have i put this little devotional? sometimes it isn't good to get old... | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1056 Registered: 05-2005 |
Andreas, I must have missed that story,can you tell it again please? ps Kurt - Totally Wired is included on 50,000 Fall fans...., and Andreas is totlally correct about The Peel Sessions - its essential | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 277 Registered: 04-2006 |
yes, totally wired is on 50,000 fall fans.... it seems that not only the back gets worser with every day...:-) the story must be on one of some old threads around april. i will search. if i didn't find it, i will write it again. promised! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 415 Registered: 10-2004 |
I'm not familiar with the 50,000 Falls Fans comp, but I always loved the A-sides comp. That's kind of what got me into the Fall, years ago. It documents most of the Brix years, from about '84 through '89, a really great time for the Fall. A lot of catchy, well-written stuff from that era. The B-sides sister comp contains some essential stuff too, though it's a bit patchy. From my particular bias, the best place to start once you want to delve into their actual albums would be Wonderful and Frightening World and This Nation's Saving Grace - but get the reissues that have all the bonus tracks, which include lots of totally essential b-sides and singles from that time. This particular era, from '84-86, was a real peak for them, imho. Bend Sinister, from '86 or '87, is good, but I always felt the production was strangely flat. For their earlier, noisier stuff, I quite like Grotesque, the Slates EP, and Perverted by Language. Grotesque is early, pre-Brix fall at the top of their game. Perverted is somewhat uncompromising in its approach - they really stripped the sound back here, and the songs became even more simple and repetitive, with Smith's lyrics beign particularly hilarious and caustic. A challenging but astoundingly strong record. I agree with Kevin, there was a slump in the 90s, though I think I was underwhelmed by most of their output from that decade. I remember Cerebral Caustic (from '95) being pretty strong though, which was also Brix's first record after she rejoined them for a few years. Shiftwork is pretty good too. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1057 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeff, Cerebral Caustic is strong? I must play that one again cos I always thought that album, along with Light User Syndrome, was one of the weakest of their career. But being am obvious Fall afficianado yourself, I respect your judgement and look forward to pulling it out again for a listen. PS - You must buy 50,000 Fall fans.... - its the ultimate Fall jukebox. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 880 Registered: 05-2005 |
Dare I say it but Mr Smith is looking slightly better (if that's possible) now than he did do say, 3 years ago? He looks alive now whereas pics I seem to remember a little whileback he sorta resembled the inside of one of Ghandi's flip flops! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1062 Registered: 05-2005 |
Has anybody ever seen MES and E.T. in the same room? - christ knows how he keeps pulling these good looking women! Then again, MES is on a different planet from the rest of us mere mortals | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 422 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kevin, it's been a while since I've listened to Cerebral, but I remember really liking side 1. I had this impression they had been re-energized by Brix's return, as those songs seemed to have a lot more energy or life in them than they had been able to muster in years. I felt like early to mid-90s Fall was kind of like the Fall on auto-pilot (although there were some good albums with Shiftwork and Infotainment Scan), and that Cerebral just seemed to have more life in it. I think side 2 kind of fell apart, though. I haven't kept up with the Fall's output since, though. I'm really only an afficionado on their pre-90s output. I haven't really heard anything post-Cerebral, except for some snippets here and there. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 887 Registered: 05-2005 |
Spielberg has earmarked The Smith for E.T. II (this time its for real) | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 425 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ha! I always thought it sounded like he said something about looking like ET in 'Couldn't Get Ahead.' | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 685 Registered: 03-2005 |
This thread is useful for reminding me to go back and check out my old Fall things. I definitely do not reach Kevin's or Andreas' level of commitment; I have only 23 Fall albums. Unlike Kevin I've always really liked "Light User Syndrome." A lot. And I think so much of "Bend Sinister" that it is the first album I've thought of listing on the "perfect albums" thread whenever I get around to doing that one. I agree that the original Brix years are the best place to start; she brought a nice pop-punk discipline to the troupe. I haven't heard "Caustic" in a long time and should pull it out and see what I think now. I always thought "Infotainment Scan" was one-half a really good album. And, yeah, "Shiftwork" is excellent. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 722 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'm working my way through the fabulous Fall Peel Sessions box. First off, this is where to hear the "Witch Trials" numbers because they sound 800% better than the anorexic-sounding album versions. The March 1983 session reminds me of the shocking fact that I never got "Perverted by Language." The songs from that album sound essential. Right now I'm in the midst of the Brix period. The reworking of "Man Whose Head Expanded," with its almost "Dr. Faustus"-sounding effects is a big improvement on the original. And "Hot Aftershave Bop" . . . was this ever included in their regular recording program? It's a garage-style punk classic. A person could make a very good argument for this box set as the definitive Fall antho. Everything is tight, often moreso than the regular studio versions and presumably this is much closer to the sound they created on stage. (I've only seen them once). The only thing missing is the sight of MES turning his back to the audience. Kevin? Andreas? | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1136 Registered: 05-2005 |
John Peels Record Box is on Channel 4 tonight at 1135pm. Randy, the Peel box set is an amazing artefact. Agree that it tails off on the last few discs but the standard is still fairly good. I was lucky(or unlucky?)enough to see MES spend a whole gig with his back to the audience, early 80s Glasgow. Knowing MES though, he was probably not being disrespectful to the audience, he probably thought it was a good way of keeping his eye on the band and making sure they were doing their jobs properly!! | ||
| abigail law Member Username: Abigail Post Number: 102 Registered: 06-2005 |
personally, i'm very much looking forward to this http://www.thefall.info/fallsite/?p=340 | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 966 Registered: 05-2005 |
E.T. smoking a fag, now there's something for our future generations... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 748 Registered: 03-2005 |
hmmm. I expect MES to be such a BSer that I cannot imagine what this book will read like. Yep, it's a must-buy. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 882 Registered: 05-2005 |
I have two Fall albums. One is a single CD comp of their Fontana years. The other is a double CD comp called 50,000 Fall Fans Can't Be Wrong. I really like the former but have yet to play the latter (despite having bought it 17 months ago). If I were to get one Fall album that is not a compilation, which one should it be? Of course I should at least play the double compilation before buying anything more... My daughter said to me at breakfast this morning: "You'd better start playing your CDs or you'll die and you won't have heard them." She's five-years-old. And not especially prone to gothic morbidity. She just knows my purchasing outpaces my playing by a great degree. She knows this because she's generally with me on these record shop trips. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 755 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wow, Padraig, you need to consult your daughter on all things. My guess is Kevin will say "Grotesque," Jeff will say "This Nation's Saving Grace," I'll say "Bend Sinister" and I don't know what Andreas will say. If you end up liking the Fontana-era stuff the best I'd say either "Extricate" or "Shiftwork." | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 891 Registered: 04-2005 |
Or you could heed Robert Christgau (though why on earth would anyone want to do that?) who wrote of the 4584-89 A Sides comp: "The only Fall album a normal person needs." Mind you, that's not a dig from me at the Fall fans on the board...I can understand the loyalty the band inspires, as I find myself wanting to dig much deeper into the vast catalog after my first taste of the group on CD. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1143 Registered: 05-2005 |
This maybe brings us back to that old chestnut about the difference between appreciating albums when they are first released, as opposed to discovering them retrospectively. I feel privileged to have watched and heard the Fall develop since the beginning, so when each album was released I never knew what to expect, each new album seemed to be different from the last. So Randy is right, I would vote for Grotesque, but I wonder if that would be the case if I was to hear it for the first time 25 years after release? I feel that way about Dylan and The Stones, can I possibly appreciate things like Blonde on Blonde or Beggars Banquet as much as somebody who was around when the albums were released? I doubt it. I'm just surprised that somebody as knowledgeable about music as Padraig does not own a studio album by The Fall. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 327 Registered: 04-2006 |
i would say: buy all the three lp's which randy mentioned and you are on the safe side. that's classic stuff! and don't forget to buy perverted by language. that was my start around 1983, lp, tour etc.. bend sinister is maybe the most listenable of all the above records. that means that my tendency is tod recommend bend sinister like randy did. kevin, i think you can appreciate albums like one who was around at the time of the release. i agree that the personal relationship can be surely a different one, but that has maybe to do with kinda sort of nostalgic - and we all have such moods. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 438 Registered: 10-2004 |
Because of this thread, I'm going to listen to Bend Sinister tonight for the first time in quite a while. That is such a great record. I think I made some comment in this or some other thread about the production being a wee bit flat sounding, but I still think it's one of their very best. Randy - Perverted by Language is a must-have. It's always been one of my favorites. A really strong, solid, cohesive collection, and my favorite of their more dischordant records from the early 80s. It's probably more challenging than say, Grotesque or Hex, but it's so strong and uncompromisingly Fall-like that it stands as a real statement of purpose. | ||
| C Gull Member Username: C_gull Post Number: 54 Registered: 05-2005 |
Hang on - if its only one it has to be Hex Enduction Hour. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 884 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks lads. Kevin, I did tape a couple of the Fontana era albums off someone, but I don't count that as having the albums. What can I say; you can't get everything someone says is cool and they are one of the bands whose albums never showed up in a jiffy bag in my post at work! A bit tight with the review copies I think! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1148 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thats the problem with The Fall C Gull, so much quality. If the Fall had never released Grotesque, or Bend S, or This Nations..., Hex Enduction Hour would have been the best album of the 80s. If they arent already, The Fall will soon be as "cool" a name to drop as The Velvets. Or do they have to split up for that to happen, or MES maybe needs to die? - perish the thought. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 440 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kevin, in many circles I've encountered, the Fall have been every bit as "cool" to namedrop as the Velvets for years. It sort of goes without saying. I didn't actually get into the Fall until the early 90s, but even then, their 80s and late 70s output was already spoken of as being the pinnacle of "cool." | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 316 Registered: 07-2005 |
And they have the best name for a band, can't think of a better one.Well Go-Betweens is a great name as well. For me, over the last few years, getting in to the Fall has been a great pleasure.I don't don't why I haven't sooner, probably not knowing where to start and other musical diversions.Also it is not always easy to listen to. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 908 Registered: 04-2005 |
Since I'm a latecomer to the Fall, I have to admit to the prejudice that kept me away from them for so long: I always assumed based on a few things that I heard on the radio over the years, that their music was very amateurish and that the whole thing was about MES's ranting and iconoclastic nature, not interesting music or compelling songs. But the comp I bought immediately dispelled me of that notion--I realize what I'm hearing is the Fall at generally its most accessible, but still I was surprised by how MES has picked interesting, inventive musicians and let them gel into compelling musical units (god, that was a pretentious phrase). Somehow, I thought he was always just backed by scrappy, disposible pickup bands. That seems not to be the case. I'm not talking about muso chops, but bands that do interesting things with arrangements. I mean, honestly, making MES musically appealing and even catchy isn't the easiest job in the world. Of course, I'm sure different lineups and different albums vary a lot. No doubt the Fall has done plenty of work that's a tough slog to listen to. I guess I need to dig into their more difficult work to see how far my admiration for the group goes. So here's a question for you many Fall experts: What's the best "difficult" album the Fall has made? One that is a real challenge to the listener, but well worth the effort? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 441 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kurt, for Perverted by Language is pretty challenging, in so far as it consists of 8 lengthy, *very* repetitive songs, with fairly minimalist arrangements, featuring some pretty atonal guitar, pummeling drums (with 2 drummers), song structures that are genearlly oblivious to conventional pop "form," and of course, some particularly spot-on lyrics by MES. To me, this album always seemed pretty relentlessly Fall. Some songs are actually quite pretty, like the droney "Garden," the melacholy "Hotel Bloedel," and the dark "Hexen Definitive/Strife Knot." Other songs, like "I Feel Voxish," could've almost been pop hits had they maybe been more than 1 or 2 notes all the way through. Still, to me Perverted is more difficult than Hex or Grotesque, both of which have their share of catchy (for the Fall) pop, like "the Classical," "Just Step Sideways" and "the English Scheme," and "Gramme Friday." But on the other hand, I suppose Grotesque and Hex both have their share of difficult, challenging songs too. I don't know.... Room to Live maybe? Slates has got the great "Prole Art Threat," one of the first songs I ever heard by the Fall, which is just insane - only the Fall could've written a song like that. As for line-ups, to me the best line-ups were in the 80s, those being the early 80s with Marc Riley, and then of course, the Brix years, from 83-89. Both line-ups featured guitarist Craig Scanlon and bassist Steve Hanley throughout. Also, both line-ups featured a cast of truly innovative and creative musicians. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1156 Registered: 05-2005 |
Easy Dragnet is the one Kurt. Some quite short,hooky(well, for The Fall) songs, but recorded in a toilet submerged under 300ft of water. Includes the best song ever written about paranoia, "A figure walks behind you" | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 915 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks, Jeff and Kevin. You're more of a writer than you give yourself credit for, Kev! That description of the recording conditions of Dragnet is genius. They have the best song titles, don't they? I Feel Voxish, Prole Art Threat, Oswald Defense Lawyer, etc. I now totally understand where Pavement copped all its strange song titles from. In fact, I had no idea how derivative of the Fall Pavement could be until I bought my first Fall album. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 442 Registered: 10-2004 |
I haven't listened to Dragnet in ages. Doesn't that have Rowche Rumble? That's not among my favorite Fall records, though. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1160 Registered: 05-2005 |
Pavement werent very subtle in the Fall homages on their early albums were they? Two States of Slanted.. is a case in point. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 918 Registered: 04-2005 |
Even back when I first heard Slanted and Enchanted in the early '90s, I knew that was a Fall cop, so you're right--far from subtle! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1162 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeff, Rowche Rumble was a single which was released either before, or after(cant remember) Dragnet and was not on the original album, it is on the re-issued version of Dragnet. It has one of my favourite MES lyrics, including the fantastic lines "Physician, heal thyself" and "Loads of people across the land do a prescribed death dance" - this is obviously a song about (amongst other things) doctors who are hooked on prescription drugs. Its a great companion piece for Mr Pharmacist. This is a groovy number ah! Rowche Rumble Is valium Valium Valium Rowche Rumble I said rumble Loads of wives around the world are given them by doctors, who think they're little girls The doctors need prescriptions The wives need their pills So Rowche Rumble Menopause wives are hard to handle No culture or love, no gambles The [dull] manage, especially smashed on Rowche Rumble Rowche Rumble Physician, heal thyself Why don't you heal yourself? The promoter is a jerk The promoter is a jerk Our government's built on expense accounts Once in, never out A step to Rowche Force feeding What are the people around you taking? Rowche Rumble Physician heal thyself Why don't you heal yourselves? Now I've tried crazy things Abusing my body to a quick end But I'll never never never never do it again I said I'll never never never never do it again Rowche Rumble Musician, heal thyself. Loads of people across the land Do a prescribed death dance While condemning speed and grass They got an addiction like a hole in the ass For Rowche Rumble Rowche Rumble Physician heal thyself Why don't you heal yourselves? Rowche Rumble I send 70 pounds instead of 70 p to pharmaceutical company Rowche AG The lorry arrived the next day Swiss gnomes dealing out potions They're gonna kick your liver in You gotta treat it like a bin Beer and speed is okay But the full use of your body isn't Rowche Rumble It's valium Said rumble | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 919 Registered: 04-2005 |
Do the Fall print their lyrics, Kevin, or did you figure that all out? If the latter, very impressive! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1163 Registered: 05-2005 |
Got it here Kurt http://www.sing365.com/music/lyric.nsf/T he-Fall-lyrics/B1D026BC6D6A15A848256AA90 00541A4 Also gives me an excuse to post the lyrics for The Classical, which contains possibly my favourite MES lyric - "I just left the Hotel Amnesia, I had to go there, Where it is I can't remember" There is no culture is my brag, Your taste for bullshit reveals a lust for a home of office THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN! THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN! Where are the obligatory niggers?* HEY THERE FUCKFACE!! HEY THERE FUCKFACE!! There are twelve people in the world The rest are paste THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN! THIS IS THE HOME OF THE VAIN! I just left the Hotel Amnesia, I had to go there Where it is I can't remember, But now I can remember...now I can remember HAFTA! HAFTA! MESSAGE FOR YER! MESSAGE FOR YER! Too much reliance on girl here On girls here, behind every shell-actor Snobbier Snobbier Too much romantic here I destroy romantics, actors, Kill it! Kill it! KILL IT A ! KILL IT! KILL IT A ! You won't find anything more ridiculous, than this new profile razor unit, made with the highest British attention to the wrong detail, become obsolete units surrounded by hail. THE CLASSICAL! THE CLASSICAL! THE CLASSICAL! HOTEL AGGRO! MESSAGE FOR YER! MESSAGE FOR YER! THE CLASSICAL! POLEAXE A!..........one of the millenium of conspiracy, Forever, I know it means a lot of stomach gas, I K N O W I T M E A N S A L O T O F S T O M A C H G A SSSSSS I've never felt better in my life I've never felt better in my life POLEAXE A! THE CLASSICAL! Stomach gas I've never felt better in my life I've never felt better in my life POLEAXE A! Millenium of conspiracy Play out Classical I've never felt better in my life | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 921 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thanks for the lyrics link. These Yank ears only catch about half of what MES is saying. Here's one for you. I used to hear "Hit the North" on the radio a lot but didn't know the name of the song. I thought he was singing "Hitler!" I couldn't really understand why the radio was embracing a song with lyrics like that. DOH! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1164 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt, With my recent re-conversion back to vinyl after a 6 or 7 year abstention, I realised I have two 12" vinyl copies of Hit The North, both different mixes and with different b-sides. They were given to me courtesy of a friend who used to work for Beggars Banquet/4 AD (The Falls label at the time was BB) - he did lots of jobs for the labels and one of them was driving MES about on tour. I really need to ask him about that some time. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 764 Registered: 03-2005 |
I usually rail against the printing of lyrics but it's a real treat to read some of Mark Smith's. I've only just caught snatches of them, such as "Father takes it in his stride, says 'back in the closet,son'" from "Van Plague." Brilliant arch comment on hiv and people's opportunistic use of it. But I'm never able to figure out everything. For example, what is "Wings" about? I love it to death musically but I really don't know what it is about. I keep wondering if it's some funny comment on airplanes (ok, Kevin, aeroplanes) by actual birds. | ||
| C Gull Member Username: C_gull Post Number: 55 Registered: 05-2005 |
What a great thread - right up my street! First of all Perverted by Language- highly recommended as an 'inaccessible classic' - the first time I saw The Fall was on this tour (1982?). Two drummers bashing out hypnotic tunes with MES reading out lyrics for 10 minutes - I've been hooked ever since. This remains one of my favourite albums - Garden is absolute classic in my book. Eat Y'Self Fitter dated but brilliant - The Peel session version from this time is absolutely fantastic. Kevin -agree about the great Fall albums of the 80's. I've also always loved Kurious Orange. They still play Wrong Place, Right Time regularly live. Kevin et al views on this one??? Nations SAving Grace of course is a masterpiece - Paintwork, My New House, Bombast - wow! Next - The Classical - Arguably my favourite Fall song ever - the bit about the new razor is just so fantastic. Wings - possibly my second favourite Fall song. Randy my view is that MES has always been fascinated by history, especially English history and the concept of Past/Present/Future. Wings for me is a very coherent story of time travel to different epochs of British history with the ever present (at that time in The Fall's songs)background nightmare of grotesque comical or horror characters. Wings to me sometimes feels like reading a short Kafka story about time travel. Finally - great lyrics - well where do you start but one of the things I love about them is the humour one of my favourite examples from Touch Sensitive 'Well what about the meek? I said they've got a fucking cheek!' There are very few bands who can make me laugh while seeing them live (Of course Robert Forster is another) but The Fall can. Oh yeah and I keep saying on this page but Fall Heads Roll is a classic - and the new songs have sounded great live. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 319 Registered: 07-2005 |
The Peel_Fall Box set Ł14.99 at HMV tonight but shelled out Ł30 for the waits cds,so it will have to wait,not buyimh snything else before xmas.!!! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1175 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jerry, the Waits CD is great isnt it? a bit steep at Ł30 but he packaging is pretty lush. Not much in the way of info though considering its a 94 page booklet - just lyrics, photos and musician credits. some background on the songs would have been nice considering they span 20 years. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 320 Registered: 07-2005 |
Kevin had a listen to the first CD and enjoyed that, as you say it has got all the lyrics and a lot of Photos but little info.Would have been nice to have were they were recorded who plays on them etc. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 167 Registered: 04-2005 |
C Gull, I had the pleasure of being at the Edinburgh Festival (and we're talking THE Festival, not the fringe) when The Fall performed 'I Am Kurious Orange' with dancer Michael Clark and his company. It had the most bizarre mix of people in the audience; old Morningside (posh bit of Edinburgh) ladies in their fur coats next to hard-core punks. The beginning was surreal, as the National Anthem was played and all the old ladies stood up. It then cut after a few seconds and the ladies sat down again. And then it started again and they all had to stand up. This occured a few times. The Fall were wonderful and the staging was interesting. I believe at one performance Micheal Clark fell off the stage too! | ||
| C Gull Member Username: C_gull Post Number: 57 Registered: 05-2005 |
Andrew Somehow I never saw the show - my sister's review was 'it was bloody loud'. I think lp really holds up though. Also just remembered around that time they covered A Day in The Life - is this available anywhere? | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2006 |
What's the best Fall album to buy if you can't stand Mark Smith's voice? | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1178 Registered: 05-2005 |
If this is a serious question Stuart, which I suspect it isnt, the answer would be:- there is'nt one | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 27 Registered: 10-2006 |
Well, the Fall have always been a big blindspot for me... I always used to whimper softly tuning into Peel and hearing the fateful words..."another Fall session tonight". Anyway, to show willing, I've just bought the only Fall cd my wee Italian record shop could come up with, Extricate ... but I'm not too optimistic... | ||
| abigail law Member Username: Abigail Post Number: 105 Registered: 06-2005 |
not one of the fall's best albums but skip to bill is dead, it's one of my favourite fall songs – reminds me of something tom waites might have sung earlier in his career telephone thing and british people in hot weather are good too | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1179 Registered: 05-2005 |
telephone thing is a Fall Classic, made in conjunction with Coldcut. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 773 Registered: 03-2005 |
I beg to differ, Abigail. When it first came out and I got a copy, I went "oh, they've gone soft." But for an obviously major label effort, "Extricate" is brilliant. From "Sing Harpy," taking advantage of their induction of a violinist to the band, to the Brix-ish "I'm Frank" to your slobbery "Bill is Dead" ballad (for crissake!) to the very plausible cover of the obscure old Searchers single to the brilliant almost "Bend Sinister"-esque "Chicago Now" to the amusing "Littlest Rebel" to even to rockabilly "And Therein." And that's not to leave out the pop "Hilary" or the archetypical Fall noise numbers "Black Monk Theme," and "Arms Control Poseur." And that leaves you with "Telephone Thing," "British People" and the somewhat monotonous title track which is at the end so who cares? I think Stuart happened onto a good start. "Extricate" is probably one of the most user-friendly Fall albums and, I repeat, it's brilliant. Not sure how you can get through it if you hate MES' voice though. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 928 Registered: 04-2005 |
Have we slowly evolved into a Fall message board? I have friends who consider the Go-Betweens wimpy (fools) who would be quite surprised to discover that the unofficial "second favorite band" here (and I know for some of you, they're first) is the Fall. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 984 Registered: 05-2005 |
It seems that the Americans love The Fall like the Brits love Television, similar comparison? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 930 Registered: 04-2005 |
Hmmm...good question. I don't know. Maybe a bit more like how Brits feel about Pere Ubu? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 986 Registered: 05-2005 |
mmm...I am not aware of that many Pere Ubu fans over here! Although there are fans, I know more peole rave about Mr Verlaine and his entourage...I may be wrong... | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1180 Registered: 05-2005 |
Spence/Kurt - The closest US comparison to The Fall I can think of is probably the brilliant Guided By Voices. Funnily enough, I was thinking the same as Kurt recently about The Fall being discussed a lot recently. I am probably as much to blame as anybody. We tend to do this every so often though, recently The Chills were getting big licks. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 931 Registered: 04-2005 |
Kevin, I was thinking about the other bands/artists held mostly sacred on this board, and it definitely includes the Chills, the Triffids, the Fall, Television, Joy Division, Josef K, Orange Juice, and a few others. It seems like the Fall has emerged from that pack as the #2 band on this board, though. I thought Pere Ubu was more appreciated in the UK than here. But maybe they're not all that appreciated there! Also, I don't think Television is that neglected in the States. I also compared Pere Ubu to the Fall mostly because I view them as a more challenging listen than Television, who are actually pretty accessible. I know classic rock fans in the States who dig them (after all these years, Verlaine's vocals aren't as big of an obstacle as they used to be). Kev, in our ongoing "agree to disagree" discussion, I'd have to revise your comment about GBV to "capable of brilliance." I think Pollard has severe problems with his quality vs. quantity ratio and that dilutes the overall impact of his work. Also, the later incarnations of the band were a little too traditionally hard-rock/cock-rock for my tastes...sort of Weezer for indie hipsters. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1185 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt your last paragraph - I'm pretty much in agreement there. Although I love the "Weezerness" of things like Teenage FBI | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 932 Registered: 04-2005 |
Yeah, but GBV at its worst is still definitely a lot better than Weezer! I don't know if you get it so much in the UK, but here, you meet loads of people who think "alternative" music means Weezer and Foo Fighters, who are even more horrible. Those two bands even toured together recently. What a nightmare. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 445 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, when thinking of *other* bands held most sacred by folks on this board, the Triffids definitely come to mind, as do Dylan and the Chills and a few others that Kurt mentioned. The Smiths get talked about a bit, though they seem more polarizing than anything else. But the Triffids, in particular, really stand out as a band that seems to be mentioned (and loved) the most on this board's off-topic pages. Oddly, to this day I still can't quite get into the Triffids. I have Born Sandy Devotional, which I think has its moments (especially the first 2 songs), and I've heard a few of their other albums, but whatever appeal they have for most people here still eludes me. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 933 Registered: 04-2005 |
Actually, I agree with you on the Triffids, Jeff--I've heard three albums (BSD, In the Pines, and Calenture) and have yet to be really wowed by them, though BSD is by far the best and certainly a good album. Does it help to be Australian to "get" them, I wonder? Also, I'm baffled why they were more commercially successful than the Go-Betweens. They seem generally less accessible and catchy. David's book says that the comparative success of the Triffids used to drive RF crazy. | ||
| C Gull Member Username: C_gull Post Number: 59 Registered: 05-2005 |
Teenage Fan Club would probably be on that list? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 990 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm with you Jeff and Kurt on The Triffids. Dare I say though its down to 80's produciton? Although I love Gil Norton's work, boy he was learning too much from the hit makers of the time, most of Gil's stuff has the trappings of Stock Aitken and Waterman, i am sorry to say. I can see why The Triffids were more commercial than the GB's. they had really colourful and alluring sleeves! Its true, I think that said a lot in the 80's, for all the wrong reasonsbut i think its true. Liberty Belle whilst a tasteful unique and artsy cover was hardly going to entice joe public was it? Along with the luck of the draw, I suppose marketing expenditure had something to do with it too. Island was it? Compared to beggers. Beggers was still pretty much about art than commerciality? Thier music (Triffids) was also easier to grapple with. More straight forward, obvious in many ways. I don't think that the Go betweens ever played the game that way. Unless you take segmenst of what Grant mentioned in their recent DVD, where he talked about "Doing it English" and all that. Most people wouldn't get the GB's in the way that they would the Triffids, too bad I say... that they don't/didn't get it. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 934 Registered: 04-2005 |
Good points, Spence. It definitely seems like the Triffids had a hard time finding the "sweet spot" in terms of production, alternating between grandiose production (BSD), no production (Pines), and horribly dated late-'80s production (Calenture, which to my ears is one of the greatest production injustices I've heard done to a band). Though we may not like the programmed drums on some of the GoBs albums, overall, they don't sounded nearly as dated and '80s-ish. On BSD, at least, it seems like most of the Triffids songs have a "big, epic" feel, and the mass market seem to respond to that more than refinement and subtlety (witness the huge success of U2). The Go-Betweens have rarely had that "big" feel in their music--Tallulah a bit, but that's about all. I don't know if this ties into what you're saying, Spence, about the Triffids being more straightforward or possibly obvious. As for people "getting" music from other countries, I've found that I have an easier time understanding the unique language and cultural references of Australia bands than I do most British bands, partly it's usually less slang-y. To me, other than place names, there's very little in the Go-Betweens catalog I don't "get," even though I'm an American. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 902 Registered: 05-2005 |
You don't need to be Australian to love The Triffids, but they do make more sense if you have been here. Wide Open Road in particular is just so Australian. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 776 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yeah, I am STILL looking forward to a bit of that experience of "Wide Open Road." That song conjures up mental paintings of a dusty highway stretching across a flat expanse of the Western Australia outback for me every time. And I love the rueful metaphor. I pretty much agree with a lot of what has been said here re the Triffids. BSD suffers from old-fashioned incompetent mixing, for example the nearly lost lead vocal in "Stolen Property." "Calenture" has so many glaringly obvious 80's pop touches in its production that I wasn't really able to get into the Triffids until I heard "Treeless Plain" which is where I think I'd recommend Jeff go to check them out. But David McComb had a naturally histrionic, grandiose personality and that might go up people's noses a bit. And it's exactly the same quality that will appeal to the larger market and which will go over very well in a huge stadium. I figure the DVD of the live "Wide Open Road" included with the new BSD demonstrates that very well. The Triffids were a good arena band. Robert and Grant were so seldom grandiose. Indeed their work was usually brilliantly focussed and small. I think maybe one of the relatively few moments when Grant approached a David McComb sensibility is on "Dream About Tomorrow." Which I love, by the way. But I cannot imagine the Go Betweens as an arena band. Spence, I haven't really heard all that much of Gil Norton's work but I've regarded BSD, "Calenture" and "Ocean Rain" as total botch jobs forever. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 993 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy Gil has produced Pixies and some other 4AD stuff like Trowing Muses and Belly, makingthem sound great. Foo Fighters and Counting Crows too. I had a chat the other day with a mate of mine and engineer at a studio, he's worked at Abbey Road and similar sized studios, he's very experienced in listening. Anyhow, he reckons that mastering, especially on the late 80's and early 90's is to blame for some artsists albums sounding shit. I actually think this is true of OceanRain, vinyl sound great but the cd sounded awful, do you feel this might be the case Randy? Great points re GB's by the way, love the phrase : focussed and small. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 779 Registered: 03-2005 |
Spence, I've only heard the vinyl version of "Ocean Rain." It's painfully over-compressed and the strings are mixed so far forward that they sound about 33% louder than the rest of the mix. It just sounds really amateurish to me. Maybe the fault lies with whoever was the mixing/mastering engineer at the time and not with Norton at all. "Calenture's" problem is clearly with production/arrangement choices but that can probably be laid at the feet of the band as much as Norton. They were just too desperate to be stars and it really shows and, unfortunately, overwhelms some terrific songs. I've learned to look the other way but I'd rather hear the demo versions of them if I could. BSD is a mixing mess but somebody on here explained that Norton came to it late after much of the work had been done. And again, maybe he wasn't responsible for the mixing anyway. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 994 Registered: 05-2005 |
I know what you mean re Ocean Rain to a certain extent, but i loved it when I was at an age (15) when it didn't matter to me how things really sounded!! Most things, again, like everything else are subjective and people's opinions, which is to be respected I guess. Everyone has a reason for liking or disliking something. From what I heard from gerard from blue Aeroplanes, Gil is a lovely guy, who's a real laugh. I think his skills are working with the people to achieve their goals quickly and smoothing out any problems between group members, esp a group like the size of the Aeros, up to 8 or 9 in the studio can be troublesome. to deal withthe Pixies (no pun intended, must've been an ordeal, very strong personalities those four guys. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 939 Registered: 04-2005 |
I have the most recent remastered Rhino release of Ocean Rain and it sounds fine to me--a bit reminiscent of RF's Danger in the Past for the its cavernous "big room" sound. Maybe they fixed whatever mix problems plagued the earlier CDs, or I just think that particular sound suits the band. Porcupine is the one that sounded brittle and annoying to me, but I thought the songs mostly sucked so maybe the problem wasn't just the production. I think Randy's right about Calenture. I've misplaced my copy or I'd give it a listen before posting, but I recall it being bathed in all those awful late '80s commercial touches like trendy synths, programmed percussion sounds, etc.--it just sounds very glossy and artificial, not organic at all. It's a complaint that also applies to the Church's Starfish...at least on some of the tracks. The worst of the '80s production the Go-Betweens endured was never quite so oppressive, thank goodness. The only album where you can really hear the cheesy synths of the era is Spring Hill Fair, and they're not that bad...the synth part on "Part Company" actually adds to the song. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 780 Registered: 03-2005 |
Is that a synth? I always wondered. It sounds like a musical tea kettle. I haven't listened to "Starfish" for quite a while; I wonder what I'd think of it. I'm feeling a little bad for hammering Gil Norton so much, after Spence's account of the guy's reputation and personality. I have another question. Just the other day, for the first time ever, I noticed that the tempo on Elvis Costello's "Clowntime is Over" speeds up appreciably after the first pause in the song. I never noticed this way back when I listened to "Get Happy" as a new release, but it screams to me now. You think they did that on purpose? Or are records really that imprecise (and therefore should I stop hammering myself for tempo glitches on my own stuff)? Am I the princess and the pea or something? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 940 Registered: 04-2005 |
I assume you mean the version of "Clowntime is Over" on Get Happy, Randy, and not the alternate slow version that was on the reissue CD and other comps? I'll have to give it a listen; I never noticed. You know, that album was made back before producers relied on click tracks or programmed drums, so an accidental tempo change is quite possible--especially since Nick Lowe was the kind of producer who'd favor feel over technical precision. And EC has admitted the band was speeding and boozing a lot in those days, so holding a steady tempo might have been difficult for them! I know what you mean, though--when I do multitrack recordings, I sometimes find it impossible to add simple drums because of slight tempo shifts I'd made on the rhythm guitar track, which sounded fine unaccompanied. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 782 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yes, Kurt, it's on the original "Get Happy." I haven't bought any of the reissues. If they scrapped the original version on the reissues, I'll bet this is why. I guess I was doing enough boozing of my own in those days never to have noticed. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 998 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt I detested that synth in Part Company as something that the producer got his hands on for the first time so it ended up being used. We've grown old with it, but its like a shitty ad that comes on the radio abruptl;y and dircetly after a lovely song, just ruins it!! | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 335 Registered: 04-2006 |
to turn this thread into the right direction once again :-) today i listened to the 5th cd of the fall's peel session box. it started with great songs, slowed down a bit, and ended with a cruel christmas cover song and a beefheart cover which placates a bit. i asked myself what are MES motives to cover the one or other song? are these songs all favourites of him? can anyone seen a specific line which runs through all that songs he covered? |