Author |
Message |
Matthias
Member Username: Matthias
Post Number: 215 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:02 pm: | |
Ever notice how the first album by a singer of a band tends to be a highlight in that person's work catalogue? I'm thinking of examples such as Morrissey, Ian McCulloch, one could argue Robert and Grant... Is it a creative burst by the artist as his band self-combust and he has the freedom of expression to go where the band had once confined in from going? Or is it the record company trying to make him or her a star and working hard to polish up and draw on the cult following he or she already has. |
spence
Member Username: Spence
Post Number: 1473 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 10, 2007 - 04:08 pm: | |
Disagree, for me with Mozzer its Vauxhall and I. Though if you class Roddy Frame as being Aztec Camera, he's never come near to High Land Hard Rain. Grant's best a;bum was Horsebreaker Star, and would agree with you re Robert, Danger in the past is his best solo. Ian McCuloch, dont rate his solo stuff. Its a hard one to judge whetehr the creative juices get unleashed, I suppose it comes down to the individuls, and the expertise of the solo artists session musicians that play on his/her stuff. Shack are a good example of carrying on quality songwriting from The Pale Fountains, Mick and hios brother John have always stuck togetherm and i suppose that unit of brother and borther keep them going from strength to strength, regardless of any dips in the quality of theoir songwriting. I think the record company can'ty rely on any artist nowadays, and the artist can and has never been able t rely/trust the record company, those days have long gone my friend. |
Geoff Holmes
Member Username: Geoff
Post Number: 208 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 09:37 am: | |
Dare I say All things must pass is George Harrison's creative peak |
XY765
Member Username: Judge
Post Number: 234 Registered: 01-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:53 am: | |
That's a big big dare Geoff! |
Rob Brookman
Member Username: Rob_b
Post Number: 606 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 04:07 pm: | |
I thought I'd come up with a bunch of examples for this, but it's proving harder than I thought. I can find many more instances where an artist's second or third release proved to be their career peak. |
Randy Adams
Member Username: Randy_adams
Post Number: 1174 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 04:56 pm: | |
George Harrison had a creative peak? Ok, maybe the opening feedback to "I Feel Fine" if he didn't nick that from Big Jim Sullivan. I suppose the answer to Matthias' question will always depend upon the context which means that there's no real correlation between first albums and best albums. For example, was there a big enough label to put a push behind the solo album? In the case of Ed Kuepper, there wasn't and he gradually grew into doing better records than his first "Electrical Storm" (after the Laughing Clowns). What about Howard Devoto's solo album? I think most of us find it lacking. Going back to the Beatles, McCartney's first solo album was a no-budget thing recorded at home which did include what is probably his only genuinely good solo record--"Maybe I'm Amazed." Was Nick Cave's first solo album his best? Like Ed Kuepper, I'd say he learned his craft gradually with the best coming later. But maybe I shouldn't consider him a solo artist, given Mick Harvey's role. Michael Nesmith's third album was his best; it was the first album on which he really buckled down and got serious about making a "record." Ironically, it is the first album that gave him no hits. Everybody knows that I'm not a fan of Van Morrison but even I know his first Bert Berns-produced album is very far from being his best. Colin Blunstone's first album does fit Matthias' idea. It stands well over all of his subsequent ones. I'm disinclined to credit the record company for that one; I'd give most of the credit to former Zombie colleague Rod Argent. I'd also give Neil Young's first album that award and it may be the consequence of his finally having the freedom away from Stills & Co.. I'm also inclined to give Brian Eno's first album the award too, although the gap between it and some of the subsequent ones isn't great. Marty Willson-Piper's first solo album is not a standout. What about Gram Parsons' first album? There's some very good material but his vocals are dreadful; the second album is much better. Oftentimes the first album is a vanity project and the artist--if he is serious about it--gets more disciplined and serious with later records. In that case, normally the first album will not be a stand-out. But even this statement won't survive specific examples. I'd put Grant Hart's first solo album in this category but it is clearly an excellent record. |
Michael Bachman
Member Username: Michael_bachman
Post Number: 601 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 05:12 pm: | |
I would say that Aimee Mann's first solo album, "Whatever", is certainly her best. Although "I'm With Stupid" is a fine album, it's got a clunker in 'Superball'. Randy, I think Gram's voice was wrecked from years or booze and drugs and from not touring and recording prior to getting into the studio for GP. It was what, 2-3 years or unactivity for him prior to GP? He really loosened up though on the Fallen Angles tour and got his voice back. Kudos to Phil Kauffman for helping Gram to cut back on his drugs and alcohol. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1930 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 05:31 pm: | |
Randy, if you're talking about the infamous "Bang Sessions" record, that was actually a bunch of tracks Van recorded only because he was contractually bound to the record company. He basically used the sessions as a big "fuck you" to the company, and as you might expect, they're pretty wretched, including ditties dedicated to, among other things, ringworm and a danish. So, in my view, it's not really fair to count that as his first. His actual first, "Astral Weeks" is, of course, a stellar masterpiece and one for the ages... And, I gots to quibble about GP. It's all about soul, man. And creaky or not, wrecked on God knows what drugs or not, his voice had many many times more soul than zillions of pretty-voiced contenders. Do agree about the McCartney record, though. |
kevin
Member Username: Kevin
Post Number: 1569 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 06:22 pm: | |
Am I the only person in the world who thinks Astral Weeks is a load of bollocks? Actually, on reflection that is probably a stupid question, but sorry I just dont get it. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1931 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 06:30 pm: | |
No. Randy agrees with you. |
kevin
Member Username: Kevin
Post Number: 1570 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 07:22 pm: | |
Yes,Randy and I appear to agree on lots of stuff LK. You and I tend to agree far more on stuff released this decade than we do about stuff from the past. |
spence
Member Username: Spence
Post Number: 1498 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 09:40 pm: | |
When I heard Astral Weeks, I was expecting to be running round the garden doing cartwheels galore within the first few seconds of the first song, like I was when I had finally heard See No Evil on marquee moon, you know "what I want, i want now!". Instead, I lay down on the grass and sighed, looked at a dead grasshopper in the eye and whispered, fu*ck me, is this it! How f*cking dull. Sorry Van. I also never got Pet Sounds either. There's some great songs, but in my book, Sunflower and Surfs Up both eclipse it with magnificent magnitudeness!!!!! |
Randy Adams
Member Username: Randy_adams
Post Number: 1176 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 09:45 pm: | |
Is GP as good as "Grievous Angel" LK? I don't think so. I wasn't trashing the album; I was addressing whether the first was the best. I say not, in Gram's case. And Van Morrison wasn't in any conflict with his record company when he recorded the tracks that went on his first album. The fights with Bang Records didn't happen until AFTER the first album was released. He was ticked off because the album was released without his say-so while he was on tour supporting the single "Brown Eyed Girl." But I did forget about all that brouhaha so, going back to Matthias' question, I guess we can put that album in the record company creation slot. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1932 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 10:44 pm: | |
To me, GP and Grievous Angel are pretty much equal, though if I had to choose, GP would edge out slightly. The songs on it work better for me. Brown Eyed Girl is an obviously epic song, but if he wasn't pissed off at somebody when he recorded the rest of that material he must've been smoking some excellent crack. I actually own every VM album but that one (a lot of frickin' records) - had it, but traded it in. |
joe
Member Username: Dogmansuede
Post Number: 186 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 17, 2007 - 11:48 pm: | |
definitely with you on the ian mcculloch front....that record is amazing! and betters anything the bunnymen ever did (and yes i'm mad for heaven up here and porcupine). debuts are generally standouts in one way or another....i know others have said it before, but there's a lifetime of thinking about it that precedes it and i suppose solo efforts are much the same. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 434 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 01:02 am: | |
Guess I'm a bit of a philistine, because I think with some judicious pruning "Bang Masters" isn't bad at all...I've got a strange, special fondness for that harrowing piece of morbid blues "T.B. Sheets." I'd agree with those whose take on this whole thread question is that (like many similar ones) it's good fun to kick around but truly impossible to establish any kind of rule, especially since at base it's all personal opinion anyway. I can think of plenty of examples proving and disproving Matthias' original theory...the one that comes to mind at the moment, spurred by Spence's comment, is Tom Verlaine, who started strong and continued at a pretty consistent level of quality for five albums ("Words from the Front" was the only one that dipped a bit for me, but even that one's quite listenable.) |
spence
Member Username: Spence
Post Number: 1502 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 08:38 am: | |
Joe have to disagree on the Maculloch thing, no way has he bettered a bunnyman album, maybe after the first 4, you could take your pick, but those first 4 Bunnymen albums are untouchable IMHO! ;) |
Matthias
Member Username: Matthias
Post Number: 221 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 01:26 pm: | |
Spence, the bunnymen are very good indeed. They made some great records and memorable tunes. Ian Mac's 1st solo record continued the trend and I think is one of his finest songwriting efforts. Joe, I bought up everything I could find at the time and he had a good deal of b-sides on various formats that included acoustic versions, etc. Anytime your can strip a song down or write a song of acoustic guitar and still convey the emotion, you've got a winner. The last record they put out together Siberia is worth a look too. I check out after Mysterio and Electrafixion. |
Michael Bachman
Member Username: Michael_bachman
Post Number: 604 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 05:05 pm: | |
It's been a while since I listened to Ian Mac's 1st solo record, I'll listen to it more over the weekend. However, I never though it was as good as the first four Echo albums or the 1983 ep for that matter (the one with the live Do It Clean and the All Night version of The Killing Moon). |
Jerry Clark
Member Username: Jerry
Post Number: 634 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Friday, May 18, 2007 - 05:41 pm: | |
No I don't think McCulloch's Candleland goes close to the first four Bunnymen LP's. That's not to say it isn't worth listening to. You can get reissues of CL & Mysterio with the B-sides & extras. The World Is Flat, Big Days & Wassailing In The Night made the Candleland 12" E.P. an essential purchase. Liz Fraser & a beautiful gatefold sleeve add to the greatness. |
joe
Member Username: Dogmansuede
Post Number: 188 Registered: 07-2006
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 08:45 am: | |
there's something about the simplicity of it that just grabs me....it kind of reminds me of (better) felt records, but with an added kinda early 90s dreampop appeal. plus the overt doors-apprection-society thing present in a lot of the bunnymen lps is gone, which i appreciate. i've seen that reissue with mysterioso, which i've never cared for much. candleland is a bit of a one off for me i suppose. |
Geoff Holmes
Member Username: Geoff
Post Number: 210 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 11:08 am: | |
Here I go. Getting myself into hot water again... waiting for those low blows of Kevins to come out of nowhere every time I mention that "B" band! Randy, I must say, as a seeming Byrds affectionardo(?...no pun intended), I find it difficult to believe that you don't rate ANY George Harrison, even in the Beatles. Have you heard All things must pass?? By the way, I'm reasonably certain that it was John Lennon that did the first recorded feedback ever on I Feel Fine. |
kevin
Member Username: Kevin
Post Number: 1576 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 11:59 am: | |
A quick search on the interthingy finds the following quote from John Lennon "I Feel Fine That's me, including the guitar lick with the first feedback ever recorded. I defy anybody to find an earlier record - unless it is some old blues record from the Twenties -- with feedback on it." In a sweeping generalisation, I would say most "rock" solo albums are usually disappointing. In the reggae field, most of the great artists from the early to mid 70s went solo after leaving vocal groups. Gregory Isaacs, Sugar Minott, Cornell Campbell, Ken Boothe,Alton Ellis and many many more all created their greatest works after going solo |
Randy Adams
Member Username: Randy_adams
Post Number: 1183 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 03:36 pm: | |
I stand corrected Geoff. I was just being a smart-ass so I get what I deserve. I had no idea the feedback was Lennon's. But, no, I'm not keen on George Harrison's music at all other than some early things like "I Need You" and "Taxman." I admit I have not heard "All Things Must Pass" since it was new but, yes, I did hear it then. Let's just say it didn't move me but consider the source as I'm already in the doghouse here for being an Elvis Costello insensate. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 437 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 07:38 pm: | |
I'm with you on that one, Randy. From most of the evidence George was a fine fellow, and I'm grateful to his production company for ponying up to make (among others) "Life of Brian" happen. But I can only think of four or five songs of his (mostly the radio hits) that I have any kind of passion for. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 438 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 08:55 pm: | |
Forgot that I did enjoy him a lot on the Wilburys records...being part of a good group does seem to bring out the best in him. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1934 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 08:55 pm: | |
Randy, you may be in the doghouse, but it's a plush, dee-luxe one, all pimped out with velvet wallpaper, platinum wainscoting and hot and cold running Brut (cologne, not champagne)... Seriously, I can't speak for anyone else, but you're not in the doghouse with me. It's just music, who cares? And, I realized a long time ago that Ailvis is not everybody's cup of tea. My parents would certainly agree with you about him, for example. The only musical obsession of mine they found harder to understand was Tom Waits. I can still hear my Dad ranting: "Why doesn't that sumbitch give it up? He can't sing!"... While I can't mount much of a passionate defense for Harrison (I guess he's somewhat eclipsed by the other two, for me), I have to say that his radio hits were often the shiznit, and if you made a compilation of all his best songs done with the Beatles - "Here Comes the Sun", "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", "If I Needed Someone", "Something" and "Long, Long, Long", etc. - it'd be be a very fine disc, indeed. I also really loved big, over the top, epic productions like "What Is My Life". Didn't that murdering, many-hairdo-sporting bastard, Phil Spector, produce it? I'd have to consult the Interweb or liner notes...whoever produced it, it's magnificent. |
Geoff Holmes
Member Username: Geoff
Post Number: 211 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Saturday, May 19, 2007 - 11:29 pm: | |
I know most of the english speaking world thinks that we sound funny "down under" but what is "the shiznit" Little Keith? And "music, who cares?". Well all of us Go Between tragics here do!! By the way Randy, I would place myself as a Costello atheist. 3 songs for me of that fine voice, pithy lyrics, overtly well constructed middle 8, 60's patstiche guitar (and organ) is just TOO much! I remember reading a review for David Sylvian's Secrets of the Beehive and it compared it to a meal of dessert with WAY too much raspberry coulee. Costello is like that for me. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 441 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 05:53 am: | |
Geoff, not to be putting words in his mouth, but I interpreted LK's comment to mean that a difference in musical opinion is a very silly thing to let come between friends...though sometimes it obviously can. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1935 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Sunday, May 20, 2007 - 06:09 pm: | |
Please, AB, put words in my mouth. Pree-cisely what I meant, thanks. Music is soooo subjective, there's just no percentage in trying to stake out some kind of moral high ground, based on one's musical preferences. Maybe it's heresy, but people are way more important to me than their musical tastes. My best friend in the world, btw, loves Huey Lewis, so I've had a lot of practice not judging people based on their tastes. And, just for added perspective, he's a Republican, which DOES seem fair to judge people by and which I, for obvious reasons, have a harder time with... Also, the shiznit = the shit = the greatest, the best, the primo stuff... I think it was probably originated by that great America poet, Snoop Dogg... |
Pádraig Collins
Member Username: Pádraig_collins
Post Number: 1449 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 10:58 am: | |
I'm pretty sure Huey, being a good Boston boy, is a Dem LK, so I asume it's your friend who's the Republican... Or is Huey that rare beast - a Beantown Republican? |
Michael Bachman
Member Username: Michael_bachman
Post Number: 607 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 05:11 pm: | |
Regarding George, I'll agree with LK and thought his Beatles songs were primo stuff, although not quiet up to John's best. I've been wanting to pick up the deluxe ATMP box set. Any record with Badfinger and Derek and The Dominoes as the studio bandshas to be damn decent. |
Randy Adams
Member Username: Randy_adams
Post Number: 1186 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 07:43 pm: | |
Geoff, your summary of Elvis Costello gave me a good laugh, a vastly more economical summation than I ever managed. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1936 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Monday, May 21, 2007 - 08:20 pm: | |
I actually thought that was pretty funny, too, though it hurts to see Elvis compared to David Sylvian. Also, not sure what rasperry coulee is, but it sounds f-ing scrumdilly. Don't know the meaning of the word "coulee" in this context, but in the South, it's used to refer to a small bayou or stream. So the image conjured up, for me, is a bayou full of some kind of raspberry sorbet thing. Yummy yummy yummy. |
Andrew Kerr
Member Username: Andrew_k
Post Number: 258 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:32 am: | |
Culinary corner: raspberry coulee should be 'coulis', a French word. Literally a purée of raspberries. Often used as a decoration for various desserts. Elvis Costello is crap, I've decided. Like Bowie, no soul: he chooses his musical setting depending on a whim. This week 'angry young man', next week 'jazz crooner'.... |
kevin
Member Username: Kevin
Post Number: 1581 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 12:51 pm: | |
Andrew, whats French for "batten down the hatches" - the Costello police will hunt you down now |
Randy Adams
Member Username: Randy_adams
Post Number: 1188 Registered: 03-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 04:09 pm: | |
Andrew . . . my hero! Your comparison with Bowie made something flash into my mind. In 1966 during his Anthony Newley period (your point exactly, Andrew, though I'm personally fond of his Anthony Newley period) Bowie did a song called "Maid of Bond Street." Stylistically as a song it could just about be the template for a whole lot of Elvis Costello songs. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1938 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 04:23 pm: | |
Kevin, if you refer to me, there are no hatches that need battening. There's no way I could compete with sophisticated analysis like "Costello is crap" (what's next? "The Go-Betweens are garbage"?). Besides, everybody knows that if you perform music in different genres, an automatic equation is invoked: you have no soul. It couldn't possibly mean you're just a talented musician or that you could ever have loved those different styles. It's also, I think, a universal truism that Bowie has no soul, too. Unlike, say, Anthony Newley. |
Jerry Clark
Member Username: Jerry
Post Number: 638 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 04:39 pm: | |
Sometimes you have to cut to the chase. Costello isn't crap. He's egotistical, misguided, out of touch with pop. Still like him though. Bowie has plastic soul, even now. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1940 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 04:43 pm: | |
Guess that's why I like him, Jerr. All those things apply to me, too, particularly the "out of touch with pop". |
Michael Bachman
Member Username: Michael_bachman
Post Number: 610 Registered: 01-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 05:12 pm: | |
I guess I'm out of touch as well, still listening to my shoegazer pop, Robyn Hitchcock, G-B's, 50's-60's era jazz, The Chills, Kate Rusby, Costello, Luna, Dean and Britta etc. |
Jerry Clark
Member Username: Jerry
Post Number: 639 Registered: 08-2004
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 05:15 pm: | |
... and you a Beyonce fan. Your pop button is working just fine, LK. Michael, once a shoe gazer always a shoegazer, it's all pop to me. |
Andrew Kerr
Member Username: Andrew_k
Post Number: 259 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 08:11 pm: | |
OK, Little Keith "Costello is crap" was a little glib maybe. I speak as someone who saw him live half a dozen times in the 80s and own a fair number of his recordings. But I can now state that I can quite easily live without ever actively listening to him again in my life. And I can't say that for the G-Bs. We change, we learn and we reassess. |
Kurt Stephan
Member Username: Slothbert
Post Number: 1379 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 08:41 pm: | |
I guess the whole Costello debate begs the question: Can an artist "undo" or "dilute" the worth of their greatest work by doing too much mediocre or worse work over the course of a career? I mean, if Costello had stopped recording or had died in '86, we'd be viewing his entire career quite differently than we would after witnessing the prolific, unfocused hodge-podge of the last 20 years of his career. I'll admit I'm tired of him too (and the recent Lexus commercial may be where I draw the line), but in terms of the actual music he's produced, all the "North"s in the world won't make me enjoy "Armed Forces" (or almost anything else he did from '77-86) any less. In contrast, the Go-Betweens doing nine original albums in a 25-year span makes the diamonds a lot easier to find. I'll probably get flamed for saying this, but I wouldn't claim either RF or GM are/were better songwriters or more talented musicians than Elvis--but unlike him, they had restraint and quality control. And those qualities in an artist are priceless. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1943 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 08:43 pm: | |
That's alright, bro. Whatever floats or doesn't float your boat. I, for one, could easily live without ever hearing Anthony Newley again. Or, the f-in Eagles, for that matter (tying in to another thread). |
kevin
Member Username: Kevin
Post Number: 1584 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 09:25 pm: | |
Great post Kurt, sums it up for me. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1946 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 10:24 pm: | |
Yeah, Kurt, heap good post. I agree - there's a certain scarcity principle at work with the GBs' stuff. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 449 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Tuesday, May 22, 2007 - 11:27 pm: | |
Being as I was one of the ones who got this ball rolling I'll just step in to say that, Andrew, up to about a month ago I leaned a bit closer to your viewpoint regarding Mr. McManus, but I picked up a couple of his prime records at the library on a whim, and was very surprized to find I was enjoying myself immensely...even the bonus discs were loaded with treasures. That's actually happened to me before with artists I've thought I was sick of...as Mister Berry once said, "goes to show, you never can tell." |
Rob Brookman
Member Username: Rob_b
Post Number: 616 Registered: 08-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 12:10 am: | |
Dead on, Kurt. I wouldn't blame anyone for adopting a dim view of Costello post-'86, but whatever crapola he's pumped out since then hasn't diminished my view of "This Year's Model" or "Blood and Chocolate" or "Trust" or "Kind of America." I think they're classics. But I don't think his career batting average looks very good, even though he's hit quite a few out of the park. Unlike the GBs, whose stats would make the Babe himself blush. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1947 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 01:43 am: | |
Batting average-wise, I think they're probably equal, but Elvis has had more grand slams in total, which is only natural when you consider the enormity of his output. I'm not going to be so nerdy as to actually tote them up - useless exercise anyway since the matter of which ones are masterpieces is highly subjective - but I suspect they both are somewhere in the .666 range (my favorite number), which the Babe-arino would indeed be proud of... The GBs Mk.II stuff is good, even great in places, but honestly, given my druthers I'd take Mk.I, just like I, being totally honest, would have to say I prefer Elvis' first 10 years of recorded output. But, it still doesn't mean there isn't worthwhile stuff in the latter periods for both. |
frank bascombe
Member Username: Frankb
Post Number: 81 Registered: 01-2007
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:23 am: | |
true enough as I've said and alot of us have said on the board artists feel they have to fill up a CD with over and hour of music. However much I love Costello and, always look forward to his work, he could really do with editing the some of it out.Often less is more as we all no with the GBs |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1949 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 06:07 pm: | |
Very true, Frank. I've always admired the Go-Betweens' restraint and discipline, the absolute adherence to the 10 song, 5 by each songwriter rule. It's really served them well. |
Kurt Stephan
Member Username: Slothbert
Post Number: 1381 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 07:42 pm: | |
The "10 songs in 40 minutes" thing shows me that Grant and Robert were ultimately music fans and artists. They knew that putting 10 good songs with a reasonable running time was a better value for their fans--and better art--than throwing together 16 songs in 70 minutes, then letting the listener sort the good stuff from the bad. |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 450 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 09:25 pm: | |
Though I hear what you're saying, Kurt, I think my rule for what makes a better value and better art is a little more zen: an album is exactly as long as it's supposed to be (that of course assumes that the artist is intuitive enough to know when to quit and when to go on) : 16LL wouldn't benefit one bit from lengthening, but IMO I think that, say, "London Calling" or "A Thousand Leaves" would be lessened by pruning. |
Kurt Stephan
Member Username: Slothbert
Post Number: 1382 Registered: 04-2005
| Posted on Wednesday, May 23, 2007 - 10:11 pm: | |
That's true, Allen. There haven't been a lot of really great double albums, but there have been enough that I shouldn't generalize. Personally, I find it's rare that I want to listen to more than an hour consecutively by the same artist. Certainly a vinyl double album with four sides is more approachable than an 80-minute single CD, though, even if the total running time is the same. |
Little Keith
Member Username: Manosludge
Post Number: 1951 Registered: 03-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 12:54 am: | |
John Lennon said in an interview that one side of an album was just about all he could take of any one artist in a sitting and I kinda find that true for me, too...not that I would want London Calling to be one nanosecond shorter... |
Allen Belz
Member Username: Abpositive
Post Number: 451 Registered: 09-2006
| Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 02:20 am: | |
Yeah, I guess I have been corrupted a bit, because if the songs continue strong I'm happy to sit through to 80 minutes. As I've mentioned elsewhere, there are a number of artists I even binge on. |
spence
Member Username: Spence
Post Number: 1525 Registered: 05-2005
| Posted on Thursday, May 24, 2007 - 01:33 pm: | |
Momus, for me fits this category, his first album Circus Maximus. Its by far his best. Although I salute the man for everything he has done since, and admire greatly his inteligent approach, unique creativity, vision and balls, apart from Poison Boyfriend, and his early 90's dance record Voyager, his later work never matched his first album. His fans would disagree, but i can't really listen to his stuff anymore, in fact as a massive fan from '85 until say '93 I thought I would always love Momus, but since '93, apart from a remix album called Sherbert something its all gone way over my head. Mind you, he's involved over the years. AS a real fantastic blogger, and writer of culture and the arts. So I suppose he has changed his focus. |