| Author | Message | ||
     Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 616 Registered: 04-2005 |
Things are getting a little slow around here, so it's time to start a potentially controversial thread that I think would be interesting. By the way, this is meant seriously, with no disrespect intended. If you have a problem with the topic, please don't post to it! It seems like a lot of great music in the past few decades has come from openly gay/bi performers. Certainly, their perspective has been welcome, especially after all the stupid macho posing of the '60s and '70s. Of course, back in the '60s, no one dared come out. Then Bowie (who was probably straight or bi at most) did it, which launched or at least legitimized glam. Tom Robinson was the first openly (and honestly) gay musician that I can think of who achieved significant mainstream success. Then in the '80s, the stigma started to go away--even a mainstream performer like Elton John came out. A lot of really successful American performers of that decade were openly gay--Tracy Chapman, Indigo Girls, kd lang, Melissa Ethridge, Ani diFranco, etc., not to mention Brits like Erasure, Frankie, Marc Almond, Pet Shop Boys, Boy George, etc. (Interesting that in the States, gay women in music were more accepted than gay men.) Slowly, it's become OK for performers to be open and out, even if they don't particularly want to use their music as a forum for their sexuality (Bob Mould, Michael Stipe, etc.). So, here's my top 10 list of greatest gay/bi performers, with the caveat that the first two have been really coy about it and seem to have chosen the straight camp for the past couple of decades: David Bowie Lou Reed Bob Mould Michael Stipe Little Richard Grant Hart John Cage Rufus Wainwright Carrie Brownstein (Sleater-Kinney) Pete Shelley Special mention: Tom Robinson, for his courage (not so much the music) Like I said, I hope people will take this thread seriously. Don't make me don my flameproof suit, please. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 813 Registered: 03-2006 |
I think you named most of the greatest, but how about: Mick Jagger Pete Townshend Mark Eitzel Freddie Mercury | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 227 Registered: 01-2005 |
Not mentioned: Lesley Woods (Au Pairs) Tranny division: Wendy Carlos Jayne County | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 617 Registered: 04-2005 |
Tranny division...nice. We need to add Genesis P. Orridge to that. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 831 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great idea for a thread Kurt. I am sure my Dad went through a phase when I was 13 or 14 where he thought his boy "might be kicking with the wrong foot" so to speak. The music he could hear from my bedroom, and the posters on my wall were of Bowie, T Rex and Lou Reed, not the most masculine of rock stars I'm sure you will agree. For me of course it was all about the music, I couldnt have cared if they wore lumberjack shirts and denims. Its interesting what you say about artists coming out Kurt, because in my 20s my 3 favourite bands were Husker Du, American Music Club and REM, as we know all 3 had front men who were not obviously gay, but have since came out. Now I dont know what all this says about me, a guy who has never had a homosexual thought in his life, but I just prefer to think that it shows that gays make great rock stars. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 618 Registered: 04-2005 |
My teenage years were similar, Kevin. The first pop music I bought and played constantly as a kid was (yes, I admit it) Elton John, who hadn't come out then, but I'm sure it was obvious to everyone except naive 12-year-olds like me that he was gay. Later, I graduated to glam-era stuff like Bowie, Roxy, Mott, Lou Reed, etc. Where I grew up (Silicon Valley area in California), my peers were all into classic rock, metal, Southern rock, etc.--all aggressively sexist, macho, and homophobic. (The one big exception to this being Queen.) Though I wasn't gay, I found that jock-rock crap rebellent, so naturally I had to go in a different direction. The standard reaction from American kids in those days to anything that was outside the norm in popular music was "they must be gay!" I heard that about Costello, Talking Heads, Devo, Clash, Sex Pistols, etc. I think kids in general are more open-minded now. I hope...there are still a lot of exceptions. And obviously open-mindedness in the hip-hop/rap world is a bit harder to find. By the way, how could I have left Morrissey off the top 10 list? | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 408 Registered: 08-2004 |
Billy Mackenzie Morrissey I thought Kurt had covered the majority then this one time couple (??????) sprang to mind. What a duet that would have been. LK I like the teaser posed there. Jagger is very camp by nature & I wouldn't put it past him. Angela Bowie wrote in her autobiography of catching MJ & her husband in bed together. She said they were just sleeping but who knows??? Nice one Kurt you start a gay thread, now I'm bitching like a pro'. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 620 Registered: 04-2005 |
Jagger was just plain sexual, I think. Hopefully, it stopped at humans with him. There were crazy stories about Lou Reed's days in glam-era London. Angela Bowie, I believe, wrote that for awhile Lou was dating a brother/sister couple from Germany. Ah, those carefree '70s... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 572 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ok, as our token gay person I never really got into musical gay geography. With a couple of shining exceptions I assumed that gay people listened to, and created, musical crap. I've never been moved by the unrelieved, almost parodic, bathos of Morrissey. How different is he from Marc Almond? Or the showbizzy glitz and gay minstrelsy of Elton John or Freddie Mercury. To some extent, I see Rufus Wainright going down the Elton John yellow brick road. They all do, or did, gay schtick. I did enjoy some early Tracy Chapman. Her only problem was that she she was so SERIOUS. She might be better now and I should probably check her out. I tend to view Jagger, Bowie and Prince as folks who made a lot of money out of tweaking people's gender expectations but my cynical soul always assumed they are as straight as arrows in real life. Never knew about Grant Hart. That's great, I actually like his music. Tom Robinson is an honorable example but other than his Sector 27 album his music just ain't very good. Doesn't Howard Devoto go on this list? Of course he's my favorite. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 622 Registered: 04-2005 |
Randy, thanks for the perspective. I guess the schtick you describe is sometimes mistaken for original or courageous artistry. But I suppose it's just another campy form of showbiz. If you don't mind me asking, what do think of more confrontational (usually punk-oriented) gay artists like LeTigre, Pansy Division, the Gossip, etc.? Is their anger just another form of schtick, or does it ring true? Didn't know about Devoto. I thought he was married, actually, but maybe I just imagined that. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 575 Registered: 03-2005 |
Maybe I'm wrong about Devoto. I'm not sure where I got that idea. Does Pete Townsend go on this list? I do really like the Who's early mod-era stuff when they were essentially a punk band and Townsend's early songs like "It's Not True" and "A Legal Matter" are untouchable. I plead ignorance on the listed gay artists. I've only heard of Pansy Division--great name!--but never actually heard them. On the subject of Elton John, Freddie Mercury and Rufus, with the word "schtick" I'm talking about the almost self-denigrating crowd-pleasing flamboyance used by these folks. Were Elton John's songs--prior to "Benny & the Jets" anyway--really served by the big glasses and the rest of his stage act? Mercury's persona at least fit what the group were doing. Rufus is moderated by the fact that in his era it's no longer such a big deal to be gay. Don't start getting deferential on me here! I expect everybody to come to the defense of Morrissey and tell me what a tin ear I have. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 623 Registered: 04-2005 |
I think Townshend has described himself as bisexual, or at least has done a bit of experimentation. It may be be like Brett Anderson (Suede) or Kurt Cobain--saying it to the press to sound cool, even if it's not really true. I remember Anderson had some quote describing himself as a "gay man who's never actually had any gay experiences." And he was dating Justine (later of Elastica) at the time, I believe. My issue with Morrissey is his self-righteousness. For one thing, that coy celibate pose. Then again, maybe it's true, but it rings false. It's like his vegan stance--too self-righteous. Boo-hoo, Morrissey, you're just too pure for this world, aren't you? | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 835 Registered: 05-2005 |
I dont think Devoto is gay is he? Then again, I would not be totally shocked if he was, in the way I would be if, say, Lemmy came out as gay  | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 624 Registered: 04-2005 |
For what it's worth, a bit of Googling reveals that Devoto allegedly had a backstage (bathroom?) fling with Tony Wilson's ex-wife, as documented in 24 Hour Party People. I remember the scene and I remember the real Devoto playing a janitor in the move, but I didn't realize the guy making it with Wilson's wife was the actor playing Devoto. That would explain the in-joke of the real Devoto's appearance in the film. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 819 Registered: 03-2006 |
The talk of Morrisey's somewhat self-righteous and dramatic stands reminds me of some comedian whose name is lost to me's very un-PC, but amusing, joke that he would "quit eating meat when k.d. lang quit eating pussy"... Townshend supposedly had gay affairs during his period of infatuation with the New Romantic movement (remember that? Boy, I'm a dweeb for knowing this stuff)...He also experimented with herion during that time period, which culminated in his OD-ing one night and "turning blue". I'm no doctor, but that can't be a good thing. Anderson is what is known in the popular parlance as a weenie. I've had no particular gay impulses (though I do think that George Clooney is a handsome guy), but I like to think I'd have the courage to act on them if I did! Hopefully, I'd be a proud, out gay man like Rupert Everett. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 768 Registered: 05-2005 |
Good thread, think u guys have wrapped it up. I'm on the guest list to see Barry Adamson in a week's time, the erstwhile Joseff K amn, Malcolm Ross is playing with him, Devoto usually turns up, I'll ask him! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 838 Registered: 05-2005 |
bet you dont! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 588 Registered: 05-2005 |
I used to work at a radio station in Dublin which had a gay program. When they stuck to talking it was an interesting show, but when they played music it was exclusively gay disco and exclusively awful. I had to sound engineer for them a couple of times when the regular guy was away. After the second time I told them about Bob Mould being gay just so they'd expand their horizons a bit. They said they'd check him out but I'm not sure they did. I remember thinking to myself that being gay didn't have to mean a life of gay disco records. The uniform tight haircuts and black Levis was fine, the uniform crap music was not. Bob Mould is my favourite gay musician even if he has not made a great record since 1993. How that piece of nonsense from last year got called "a return to form" I'll never understand. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 235 Registered: 04-2006 |
this is an interesting thread, but i think the few one's i know are listed. so it is my pleasure just to read and learn. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 769 Registered: 05-2005 |
kev you betcha i dont! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 582 Registered: 03-2005 |
My experiences have been more like Padraig's report. There actually are gay people with decent taste in music but we are scattered about and at constant war with "our people." I figure my idea that Howard Devoto is gay was a case of wishful thinking and guilt by association (Shelley). And a lot of his lyrics have a bit of that self-deprecatory and darkly cynical viewpoint that is so classically gay. Songs like "Song from under the Floorboards" and "Rainy Season" and "Dirty Beating Heart" just sound like a gay guy's sensibility. Oh well. It definitely doesn't matter. He's a genius as far as I'm concerned. All you have to do is listen to the lyrics of something like "Philadelphia" or "Shot by both Sides" to get that. Ok, I'll stop slobbering. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 626 Registered: 04-2005 |
Padraig, I have to second your thoughts on Bob Mould. A lot of people were touting "Body of Song" as a great comeback, but it sounded even weaker than his other diminishing-returns solo albums. Mostly, he's lost it as a songwriter--he still knows how to make great sounds, though. But it's not enough. A friend told me a funny story about him. She saw him play a solo acoustic show in San Francisco six or seven years ago. She said he was unusually chatty and funny that night, given to tossing out random asides. At one point, he wondered, "Am I getting gayer, or is Madonna getting better?" and then explained that while working out in the gym, he found himself really enjoying her music. And hence the electronica/dance direction he's gone since. That ties in nicely with your point about crappy "gay disco records." To go back to Devoto, I can see how his lyrics could be ambiguous. And that's a good thing--the best artists, gay or straight, make personal lyrics more universal if they don't bog them down with unnecessary pronouns or orientation-specific references. I can relate more to, say, Pete Shelley's best heartbreak songs than I can to some aggressively hetero mainstream act's "girl I need your lovin'" type of song. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 821 Registered: 03-2006 |
Whether or not they are, in actual point of fact, gay or bisexual, Townshend and Jagger have written some great lyrics with homoerotic subtexts...I'm thinking "When the Whip Comes Down" and "And I Moved"... And what to make of Bob Mould's period as a music producer for the WWF? What the hell was that all about? Clearly the guy has gone through many changes... | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 96 Registered: 01-2006 |
Stephin Merritt of the Magnetic Fields/The 6ths/The Gothic Archies. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 629 Registered: 04-2005 |
Damn, you're right! Merritt is definitely top 10. I just plain forgot him. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 829 Registered: 03-2006 |
Seconding Merritt's inclusion in this discussion. He is great and 69 Love Songs is a staggering achievement. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 230 Registered: 01-2005 |
I have been a fan of Jane Siberry since 1984, but I can't say if she is or isn't. She had a real nice run of great albums from 1984-1993. Subsequent releases have had some moments, but haven't been as consistently good. NP KT Tunstall - Eye To The Telescope | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 846 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thats twice today that posts on here have had me scampering over to Napster. First to download Tin Drum by Japan, secondly to download 69 Love Songs by Magnetic Fields. I always loved Ghosts but could not stomach the thought of listening to a whole album at the time this came out originally, time to put that right now. I love Sylvians solo stuff but never bought a Japan album. I did have 69 Love Songs but sold it in a "CD clear out purge" I had a few years back. The reason it did not survive the purge was because I guess I found it too daunting - 69 songs, jeez thats a hell of a listen. Anyway, I liked some of it at the time so maybe I can now listen in instalments. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 631 Registered: 04-2005 |
Installments are the way to go, though I think I did manage to listen to it start-to-finish once on a long road trip. It's probably the only triple album I could stand to play straight through (certainly couldn't do it with "Sandinista"). To my ears, about two-thirds of "69 Love Songs" is first rate, with a number of songs being just OK and a few that are short or jokey gimmicks. (My slimmed-down two-CD version would be called "46 Love Songs," which doesn't have much of a ring to it.) There are only a handful that I actively dislike--pretty amazing for such a dauntingly long album. But I was hugely disappointed with the follow-up MF album, "i"--it sounded like "69 Love Songs" outtakes; only a handful would have made the cut on that album. Other than "69 Love Songs," the Merritt project I like the most is the 6th's "Wasps' Nest," the one with the guest vocals by all the indie-rock "stars" (Georgia Hubley, Lou Barlow, Mitch Easter, Dean Wareham, etc.). | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 848 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt, your jokey comment about 49 Love Songs as opposed to 69 - I am sure that it was more than coincidence that he settled on that particular number if you get my drift? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 633 Registered: 04-2005 |
Yeah, I think so, Kevin! Let's put it this way--if he stopped at 67 songs, I'm sure a lot of people would have said, "can't you bang out two more quick ones, Stephin?" (And, listening to "Experimental Music Love" and "Punk Rock Love," that's exactly what he did!) | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 157 Registered: 11-2004 |
May I be the first to mention Dusty Springfield. I can't believe no one else has. I know my music tastes are in the dark ages, but still... | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 97 Registered: 01-2006 |
Yep, I think Punk Rock Love and Exp. Love Music were added to bring the total to 69! It's an incredible album, a lot of artists don't release 69 songs in their career never mind one album. 'I' is certainly a continuation of 69 but I was listening to it last night and there are some tracks on it that are up there with the best of 69 like 'I looked all over town'. I've been a fan of Magnetic Fields since Holiday in the early 90s which is totally different in sound to 69 or I. Get Lost and Charm of the Highway Strip have also been highly recommended to me but I haven't picked them up yet. I saw them tour 69 Love Songs twice in Dublin in one year and they were certainly in my top ten gigs, they reproduced the sound of the ablums magnificently on stage. I just hope when he gets to magnetic Fieds work he'll progress the sound on from 69 and I. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 600 Registered: 05-2005 |
I was at the first of those Dublin shows - January 01. It was incredible. I saw Roddy Doyle there! | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 98 Registered: 01-2006 |
Yeah was it Spirit Padraig? I remember how quite everyone was throughout the gig after Stephin Merrit saying at the start 'our songs are quiet and we'd like if ye were too'! there wasn't a peep out of anyone for the entire show! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 602 Registered: 05-2005 |
If Spirit is the one on Abbey Street that's it. Think it had a different name then though. | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 101 Registered: 01-2006 |
Yep that's it. The next gig was in the Olympia. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 592 Registered: 03-2005 |
Donat! How idiotic of me. I clean forgot about Dusty and I have loads of her records as well as her bio. Also clean forgot Stephen Merritt. My 49 year old RAM sucks, but that's another thread. I haven't listened to 69 Love Songs in an aeon. It used to be good accompaniment to long tasks like working on a car. Very eventful and delightfully low budget. Oddly I never thought about getting another of his projects. | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 160 Registered: 11-2004 |
And there's a lot to get into as well, as far as Stephin Merritt goes. The electro-pop of the Future Bible Heroes is a personal favourite of mine. Stephin's a versatile musician, that's for sure. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 643 Registered: 04-2005 |
Randy, I've met people who love 69 Love Songs but don't like anything else Merritt did. Its production qualities are quite different than his previous MF output, which was mostly rinky-dink sounding synth-pop (though often in a good way). 69 Love Songs had a bunch of those, but they were somehow starker and organic sounding. On "i" he went to a "no synths" policy, not an improvement in my opinion. XY, I have "Lost" and "Charm" and they're both good, but not great--they get a bit boring. As with "i," Merritt singing all the songs on an album definitely reduces its appeal. I haven't checked out Future Bible Heroes. Is that the one where Claudia Gonson sings the lead vocals, Donat? I like almost all her vocals on 69 Love Songs. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 110 Registered: 07-2006 |
check out holiday kurt....that's my fave fields record to date. 69 love songs would be better if it were titled 35 love songs....beautiful sentiment anyway. re: above, i have a lot of particular respect for jimmy somerville mostly for "too out to be true!" value. smalltown boy still sounds great 20+ years later and i find it's accompanying video incredibly touching. | ||
| Lawrence Mikkelsen Member Username: Simplythrilledhoney Post Number: 72 Registered: 03-2006 |
all of Merritt's stuff is gold, in my opinion. I see no one has mentioned Canada's The Hidden Cameras. Lyrically, they're outrageously, flamboyantly gay, and musically they're very much indie pop, with echoes of B&S, The Magnetic Fields and The Polyphonic Spree. Great fun. |