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Matthias
Member
Username: Matthias

Post Number: 202
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 02:54 pm:   

I recently stumbled upon the Best of Rare Cult at the library. As Electric was the soundtrack of my sophomore year in High School and as such the tennis team's unofficial theme songs. (It's ok, you can laugh), I quickly delved back into the past and acquired Love, Electric and the unreleased Peace albums.

Does anyone else love the Cult? The Gobees tie in is that Sounds 45 single with I Just Got Caught Out live and I think Outlaw from the Cult.
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spence
Member
Username: Spence

Post Number: 1366
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 03:07 pm:   

Bloomin ell, wot a tie in!!

I use tolike Go West, Dreamtime era Cult, only a few years after it was released. never cared much apart from the odd song like She sells, etc. Harmless enough eh?
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kevin
Member
Username: Kevin

Post Number: 1477
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 03:29 pm:   

as the wonderful Paul Calf has been known to proclaim - "bag o' shite"
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Little Keith
Member
Username: Manosludge

Post Number: 1748
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:19 pm:   

Don't know who Paul Calf is, but I agree with him and Kevin, with all due respect to those that like them...

Bag O' Shite would make a great name for a punk band, though it might invite some unwelcome reviews...

Semi-related subject, Kev...I downloaded a copy of the Fratellis, just to hear, and found them to be pretty much as you and Spence described. But anyway, there's a song on it called "Doginabag"...does that have some Scottish hipster, street meaning?
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Matthias
Member
Username: Matthias

Post Number: 203
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:30 pm:   

Seriously, Billy Duffy is a rock guitarist of top form.
His hooks and riffs are quite creative.

What's interesting to me is that Rick Rubin took the unreleased Peace album songs and stripped them down to make a tight and cohesive completely different from than Gothrock sound they previously had.

I actually prefer the Peace album tracks and it is a lot easier to see the natural progression from Love to Peace than Love ot Electric.

The other interesting note is that GnR toured with the Cult as their opening band in 1988. Quite funny. Especially since they got booed off the stage for being VERY VERY bad and all Axl could do was spew f bombs at the crowd because of his own mediocrity. The Cult had a track called Zap City she's so pretty. And a year later GnR comes out with Paradise City. Coincidence? I think not.

Hopefully, their are a few other heavy rock fans out there. Kev, LK, Spence, are you being too earnest? Someone might accuse you of being U2 fans, hehe.
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Little Keith
Member
Username: Manosludge

Post Number: 1751
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 04:49 pm:   

Oof, you know how to hurt a guy...I hope I'm not being earnest, but maybe so...

But, I should say I have nothing against the Cult, I'm just not moved by them. I'd have to compare them to, say, Pamela Anderson. I, despite being a red-blooded, card-carrying heterosexual, am completely unmoved by her. I just don't see what Borat, and others, see in her, but I have nothing against her. I'd take the lead singer from the Pussycat Dolls over her anyday...

I am a big heavy rock fan, though. I love Led Zeppelin, and during much of my dissolute youth, they were my absolute favorite band. They still, to me, set the standard for ultimate heavyosity (to use Woody Allen's term)...that enjoyment of them is slightly tainted by having read about them - they are apparently some pretty evil people. I do, however, believe in the dictum, "trust the art, not the artist", so I still enjoy their music when I hear it, with the exception of "Stairway to Heaven" which I hope and pray never to hear again.

On the other hand, I do actively hate both GnR and their music, with every fiber of my being. To paraphrase Curtis Mayfield, if there's a hell below, they're going to go.
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kevin
Member
Username: Kevin

Post Number: 1478
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 05:16 pm:   

LK - Paul Calf is one of Steve Coogans creations. He is basically an undereducated Mancunian beer guzzler who thinks he is a "street philosopher". His biggest pet hate is students(or steeewwddenttss as he phrases it), and who can blame him :-)

Doginabag - havent got a clue. Would hazard a guess it may be about an ugly, possibly loose, woman. Unattractive women sometimes get called "dogs" in Scotland.
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spence
Member
Username: Spence

Post Number: 1367
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 06:35 pm:   

"dissertation"


Was that Paul Calf's dog?!
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Kurt Stephan
Member
Username: Slothbert

Post Number: 1311
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 06:38 pm:   

Sorry, Matthias, another "no" here to the Cult. Though I suppose "Love Removal Machine" and "She Sells Sanctuary" are permanently lodged somewhere in my brain because of so much radio exposure to them in the late '80s.

I'm of the age (the Dazed and Confused-high school era) that I should have been into heavy rock growing up, but I never was--I was a nerd in high school, and punk and new wave spoke much more to nerds than heavy metal did. I loathed Led Zep, AC/DC, Aerosmith, etc. The closest I came to heavy metal in my tastes was Mott the Hoople, which was punky enough in attitude that I could forgive the occasional crotch-rock riffs.

But decades detached from that '70s heavy rock mentality that I wanted no part of, I can now hear something in Led Zeppelin. Horrible human beings, terrible misogynistic and/or airy-fairy lyrics, and lots of questionable musical ethics (ripping off and retitling old blues, etc.)--but sonically, a lot of their '70s stuff really holds up, and I think at times they were challenging their audiences in ways that they didn't have to--in other words, they were making an effort to be creative, not just pandering to their demographic. But really, they're the only heavy band of that era I can tolerate. And, this may be scandalous--but in 2007 I'd much rather listen to "Physical Graffiti" than "Quadrophenia." That statement would have been unthinkable to me 20 or 30 years ago. The Who's attempt to make "earnest, meaningful" stadium rock seems less honest somehow than Zep's out and out carnal bombast.

I don't hate G 'n R as much as LK because they had a least a smidge of dirty rock 'n roll funk about them--I'd much rather hear their big hits than anything ever by, say, Metallica. But metal seems like it's been a meaningless genre for decades now.

Wonder if Padraig will chime in, as our resident former metalhead. :-)
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Matthias
Member
Username: Matthias

Post Number: 204
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 07:12 pm:   

After a poor start, now we're getting somewhere. I love it when people delineate their likes and dislikes and back them up with reasoning.

LK, what have you heard about LZ? I have not read Hammer of the Gods yet. I did thumb through Scar Tissue, Anthony Kiedis' auto-bio which is a lesson in depravity and truly unbelievable. What a sorry soul he is. Back to Zep, my best friend in 9th grade loved them and I never got it even then even being into other hard rock bands. Years later, I started to appreciate them - maybe it was when Porl from the Cure joined RP & JP on tour. ;-) I love their more acoustic and slower blues songs.

Kurt, I have a Q for you: Isn't all music pretty much ripped off and tweaked? Certainly Elvis ripped off black music first on any grand scale. Doesn't make him any less. Still a genius. Even if he got all bloated and died on pills surrounded by yes man and Glittering jumpsuits.

LK, Pam Anderson is looking a bit rough lately, no? I much prefer her pre-tube job.

On another tangent, I was reading the Patty Griffin forum and they had a thread titled "Best Racks in Music". This still makes me laugh because for one I would never expect to see this thread on her site, since I consider her an intelligent, well spoken artist and make the connection to her fans as well and that this would be below bar for them. However, it is hilarious and had the most posts with pictures to boot. Too funny.

OK, I'm getting nothing done today... DRAT!
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Kurt Stephan
Member
Username: Slothbert

Post Number: 1314
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 08:11 pm:   

Matthias, I wouldn't disagree with your question; most creative things are derived in some way from something else--but Zep was really blatant about stealing songs. You should read "Hammer of the Gods" for details--I'm reading it for the first time now, coincidentally. The song "Dazed and Confused" was pretty much lifted directly (with a bit of a lyrical change) from an obscure folk singer Jimmy Page had seen play live. The book has plenty of other examples.
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Little Keith
Member
Username: Manosludge

Post Number: 1753
Registered: 03-2006
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 09:04 pm:   

I, too, agree, Matthias. There's nothing new under the sun. But, there's stealing and then there's stealing. There was something about the way the Zep did it - they were...egregious, lifting wholesale many of their supposed own songs from some of the poor, old black bluesmen, that could've used the credit (read money)...Stuff like "Whole Lotta Love", "Heartbreaker", "Bring It On Home", "Nobody's Fault But Mine", "When the Levee Breaks" and many others were all more or less direct, uncredited lifts from classic old blues songs...I'll admit though that if you were to cue up any of those tunes on the old record player, the freshness, immediacy and excitement of them would tend to render such concerns academic...
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Jeff Whiteaker
Member
Username: Jeff_whiteaker

Post Number: 524
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Tuesday, March 27, 2007 - 09:20 pm:   

I like pre-Electric Cult.

Favorite, most bad-ass Cult song: Resurrection Joe.

That song, for me at least, is a doomy, goth-dance classic. It wasn't on any of their albums: post-Dreamtime, pre-Love, probably came out around '84? I remember hearing it on college radio back in the mid-to-late 80s. I had it on a radio mix tape that I played A LOT, which seems to tie into a lot of my memories from the 2nd half of 1987.

I also have a place in my heart for Love. As a 12-year old metal head back in 1987, it was a transitional album for me, and was one of my first forays into college radio, or "new wave" (a term used way more loosely in the US) as I got out of metal and into all things "new wave," post-punk, etc... Apart from that, it's a decent album and I pull it out every few years and still enjoy it.

At the time, being the metal head that I was, I also liked Electric, but that one didn't withstand the tests of time, and probably got sold with a lot of metal and hard rock albums once the transition into jeff the new wave fanatic was complete, by Fall of '87.
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Randy Adams
Member
Username: Randy_adams

Post Number: 1098
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 03:04 am:   

Elvis was like the Who: some really brilliant early recordings and then nothing more . . . . Not a genius.

The only Zep song I truly love is "Immigrant Song." Nothing else.

The only metal album I enjoy is Bowie's "Man Who Sold the World." Unlike the music it lampooned, it had genuine pop craft, intelligence and humor. And it still sounds great today.
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Matthias
Member
Username: Matthias

Post Number: 205
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 01:47 pm:   

Randy, Elvis was a genius. His vocals outshine any of his contemporaries. I'm no big fan of the indulgent baffoon, but let's call a spade a spade.

Funny that you would like the Immigrant Song and nothing more. Why is that? It is not an obvious choice.

Never heard the Bowie album. I'll have to check it out.
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Pádraig Collins
Member
Username: Pádraig_collins

Post Number: 1352
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 02:01 pm:   

Never fear Kurt!

I love some of The Cult's stuff. On this site I once extolled the awesomeness of their lyric:
"Livin' in a shack in a one horse town,
Tryin' to get to heaven before the sun goes down,
Lizard in a bottle yayahhhh."

Like Jeff, I loved Love and was then disappointed with Electric. I've gotten to like Electric over the years though - the above lyric is from it. Sonic Temple is great too. I have Resurection Joe on 7" Jeff!

I rarely play The Cult, but always enjoy them when I do. Listening to She Sells Sanctuary right now!
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Pádraig Collins
Member
Username: Pádraig_collins

Post Number: 1353
Registered: 05-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 02:02 pm:   

Lil' Devil, the track with the lyric quoted above, is on now. Bubblegum metal?
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Randy Adams
Member
Username: Randy_adams

Post Number: 1105
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 05:13 pm:   

Padraig, bubblegum metal is a totally plausible category. It's just one more F-stop beyond the Sweet.

Matthias, "Immigrant Song" is the only Zep thing I ever heard that had some of the creative spirit of the old Yardbirds without whom the Zep would never have existed. It's not an obvious blues or English folk retread like most of their things. It's also blessedly short.

As for the tendency of the Zeppers to pinch old music and credit themselves with it, my observation is that really good players and good writers are nearly always mutually exclusive. (Richard Thompson is a unique exception). The core of the Zeppers consisted of two of the 60s' busiest British session musicians.

"The Man Who Sold the World" is brilliant and funny. As far as I know it has the earliest reference to "EST" in its lyrics ("All the Madmen"). Mick Ronson sends up metal guitar technique better than Spinal Tap, especially on "Width of a Circle." And, yet, there are a bunch of great songs.

Elvis wished he was a spade. If Scotty Moore were not playing behind him on those early records, Elvis would just be Johnny Ray.
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Wolfgang Steinhardt
Member
Username: Berbatov

Post Number: 61
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 05:36 pm:   

Randy, as the 50's Britannica on this board:
can you tell me sth about "The Phantom" (Jerry Lott). His single "Love me" is great, but did he anything else worth listening to???
I also like Rays Flip,Flop and Fly, and see what wikipedia quotes: "In the documentary film No Direction Home, Bob Dylan cites Ray as an early influence, stating that Ray's singing and performance style seemed "voodooed". Not the worst reference...
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Jeff Whiteaker
Member
Username: Jeff_whiteaker

Post Number: 525
Registered: 10-2004
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 06:00 pm:   

Randy, I'm a longtime fan of "Man Who Sold the World." I agree, it's a perfect fusion of "metal" and pop. It's almost kind of like thinking man's butt rock, yet without ever approaching prog, if that makes sense. I think it's arguably Bowie's most consistent and cohesive record from the first half of the 70s.
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Kurt Stephan
Member
Username: Slothbert

Post Number: 1322
Registered: 04-2005
Posted on Wednesday, March 28, 2007 - 07:29 pm:   

Oops...I didn't see this thread before dissing "Man Who Sold the World" in the Bowie thread! Ah well, it wouldn't be fun if we always agreed on everything...
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Randy Adams
Member
Username: Randy_adams

Post Number: 1107
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 01:53 am:   

Ahem, Wolfgang, I might qualify as a low-rent 60's encyclopedia but the 50's are pretty much out of my radar except for a little bit of pre-Beatles UK music. In short, I ain't THAT old! I just pulled out Johnny Ray's name to be insulting.

Which reminds me, I've wanted a Drafi Deutscher antho forever. There used to be a two disc Decca set that looked really promising but it seemed to go out of circulation the moment I ordered a copy from Amazon a handful of years ago.
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andreas
Member
Username: Andreas

Post Number: 442
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 05:55 pm:   

listened to them till dreamtime. liked at that time especially the southern/death cult songs. stopped listening. liked sonic temple. stopped again. liked 'the cult' LP and went to a concert. stopped finally. and i think they stopped too, or?
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Jerry Clark
Member
Username: Jerry

Post Number: 601
Registered: 08-2004
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 06:02 pm:   

I know Billy Duffy was an early mentor for Johnny Marr. You can hear it in She Sells Sanctuary. Which is also the only Cult song I know.
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Wolfgang Steinhardt
Member
Username: Berbatov

Post Number: 63
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 06:22 pm:   

Randy, sorry for the methusalemic assumption, I was just referring to your encyclopedic knowledge - but how in hell did you stumble over Drafi Deutscher??? You probably got a nice collection of Ted Herold records too, yap?
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andreas
Member
Username: Andreas

Post Number: 443
Registered: 04-2006
Posted on Thursday, March 29, 2007 - 08:06 pm:   

Yes, Randy that is a question I asked myself too. Why Drafi Deutscher?
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Randy Adams
Member
Username: Randy_adams

Post Number: 1112
Registered: 03-2005
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 03:03 am:   

Ok, here's where having too many records can be a real problem. Somewhere I have a Drafi Deutscher song called "Take It Easy." No, it's not the awful Eagles song from the 70s. I've scoured my "various artists" section and I can't find it so I guess that's not where it is. Anyway, it dates from about 1966 or so and it's great. There's a woman singing along with Deutscher. I can't remember if the lyrics are primarily in Deutsch or English but it's great. I figure it can't be the only good thing he did. There's a lot of great stuff out there from the non-US/UK axis. In fact, somebody did a few anthologies of 60's vintage Iron Curtain records that are great in every way. But I also have a high tolerance for cornball artists who make mostly garbage and then, suddenly, a handful of terrific records that nobody even knows about.

Wolfgang, I suppose you were kidding but who's Ted Herold?
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Wolfgang Steinhardt
Member
Username: Berbatov

Post Number: 64
Registered: 09-2006
Posted on Friday, March 30, 2007 - 09:58 am:   

Not at all Randy. There were two "German Elvis's" in the fifties (like Johnny Halliday in France or Cliff Richard in England) and Herold is the tough guy while the (mother-in-law-darling) Peter Kraus has too many Pat Boone genes in his appearance. The whole thing is more about petticoats, haircuts and cliché, not worth listening.
I'm not a Drafi Deutscher specialist either, but his biggest hit ("Marmor,Stein und Eisen bricht", the english version "Marble Breaks and Iron Bends" even got a certain success in the US charts...) is a classic and a compilation might be worth buying. His italian contemporary Adriano Celentano is really great, you should have a best of in la tua màcchina...

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