| Author | Message | ||
     Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1407 Registered: 04-2005 |
Randy, Spence, et al might enjoy this: http://www.popmatters.com/pm/features/ar ticle/41707/magazine-a-band-from-under-t he-floorboards/ | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1571 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt fuc*in great page thanks. magazine were wonderful. Love the last live clip, never seen before. devoto is awesome. I loved those times. Missing McGoegh on geetar tho | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 574 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, I hope that article turns some new folks on to what is still a terribly underrated but brilliant band. I can't say enough good things about Magazine. And this reminds me, I've been meaning to give Secondhand Daylight a spin as a few of its songs have been going through my head this week. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1222 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ah, belated recognition for the sacred! Thank you for the link Kurt. I think I've said before that I discovered Magazine when "After the Fact" came out so I was just in time to be too late. Sometime after that, when no week could go by without my hearing at least a couple Magazine albums, I remember reading in some rock criticism survey (probably by Rolling Stone's overrated writers) that Magazine were a "poor man's Roxy Music." Needless to say I didn't buy the book. So my question for those of you who've bought the remasters: are they worth it? Are they significantly different? I've never really had a problem with the sound of the original CDs. Another question: how do you pronounce "McGeogh"? I've always wondered about that. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1408 Registered: 04-2005 |
You won't find a bigger Roxy Music fan on this board than me, and I would never call Magazine "a poor man's Roxy Music." Bands like ABC, Icehouse, Spandau Ballet...yes. But not Magazine; they were something different. I do think there's some Roxy influence in Magazine, though, as there was in John Foxx-era Ultravox. Both bands were kind of caught between the punk and New Romantic eras, and were probably underappreciated as a result. America (critics and listeners) was pretty cool to Magazine; I'm not sure why. Maybe Devoto was a little too scary and arty, but not in an easy-to-understand way like Johnny Rotten/Lydon. But were they very loved in the UK either? I was in London in '81 and being a music-crazed teen, I wanted to score a Magazine t-shirt. I couldn't find one, and when I asked about it in various shops, most people when I mentioned of the group. Always wondered how to correctly pronounce Mr. McGeoch's name myself... | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1409 Registered: 04-2005 |
Er, "most people scoffed when I mentioned the group" is what I meant to say. Sentences work better when they have verbs. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 575 Registered: 10-2004 |
I too, have occasionally wondered whether I'm pronouncing the great McGeogh's name right. phonetically, I've always pronounced as such: mick-gee-ochk (ending softly), but that's just a guess. It's puzzling to think of just why Magazine were so underappreciated, but a few guesses are: 1. They weren't "pretty boys" like Echo & the Bunnymen, or even Joy Division, who were at least kind of ruggedly cute or something. 2. I think Devoto may have been a bit too, um, "cerebral" for a larger audience to connect with. Whereas hordes of black-clothed, lugubrious teens could find something to relate to in Ian Curtis' well-written but dour, emotional outpourings, Devoto may have seemed more abstract and complicated to most. 3. The music, while irresistibly poppy at times, could also be almost unfashionably complex. Simply put, the band had chops, and weren't afraid to play more intricate and accomplished parts. These points, could be wildly disputed by the rest of you kind folks, and since I was in pre-school and kindergarten during most of Magazine's existence, I can only make these long after-the-fact guesses. At any rate, I know most people here find them peurile, but I'm not ashamed to admit being a longtime Banshees fan, and John McGeogh's time with them resulted in some insanely good, adventurous albums with plenty of awesome guitar parts. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1572 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeff you are correct re pronunciation of McGeogh, I've heard it end in just 'o' too. I don't think magazine are underappreciated. Most people I have known over the years with a love of music have tended to adore Magazine. Even the press rarely had a bad word to say about them. In many ways they share the same affection as Josef K. They weren't around for long, Josef K for 2.5 years, magazine for 4 years. They also existed in times when there was a lot of change going on. Less time for people to latch on to something. In many ways, I love the fact thet neither band was around for say, 5 years. i mean, look at the Bunnymen, after Ocean Rain, it gets a bit dull IMHO. Joy Division, were around for a short time too, but they seemed to be a part of something, a movement, which gave them extra publicity, I think the 'indie' tag helped them too, with the cult following, whereas Magazine went straight to Virgin. What Magazine shared with Roxy was the same type of instruments, keyboards, guitars, even saxes (see Second hand Daylight), that has to be one significant factor, another factor being that Roxy had good players, McKay, Eno, manzenera, and Magazine had the awesome Adamson on bass, McGeogh on geetar and Formula, who was up there at the time. Third factor, they had front men with charisma, 'weird', otherwordly figures really. I met Devoto in Birmingham in '88 I think, he high fived me after doing The Light pours out of me with his band Luxuria, he had a great sense of humour and fun. Not like the press made him out to be this intellectual sorta freakshow. I was fortunate to meet mcGeogh, who along with Doyle the Mags drummer perofmed in Richard Jobson's The Armoury Show. That was fantastic gig to about a 100 people in 1985. At one point after the left the stage, we heard some people behind us with hands on our shoulders shouting "come on you wa*kers, we want more!", shouting at the stage for an encore, then we were pushed aside by these guys who happened to be Richard Jobson and McGeogh, they ran through us and jumped on stage to perform the encore!! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1609 Registered: 05-2005 |
As a fully qualified Scot I think I can say with some certainty its pronounced Migeeock (with a hard g) I remember that Second Hand Daylight was released the same week as Even Serpents Shine by The Only Ones, weeks like that are enshrined in the memory. I have just remembered that Magazine were another of the bands my Dad quite liked to hear me playing, in particular Definitive Gaze and Motorcade. Cant add much to Spences post above, that pretty much nails it for me. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1224 Registered: 03-2005 |
Great summation, Spence. And thanks to you and Kevin for clearing up the pronunciation thing. I expected it to be more phonetically obscure, like Mickguff or Magoo or something. Kevin, your dad must have been a whole lot easier to live with than mine was. So, the remasters? Do we need them? Are they better? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1410 Registered: 04-2005 |
Well, I hate to be the spelling police--sorry, I'm an editor and I can't help it--but his name is spelled "McGeoch," not "McGeogh." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_McGeoc h)--which would still be pronounced Migeeock, like Kev says, right? Good points about Magazine, everyone. Spence's comment about Devoto's sense of fun is interesting, because I think U.S. critics didn't get that at all, thinking he was dead serious about everything. But a lot of his lyrics are really quite funny ("A Song From Under the Floorboards" has one of the best opening lines ever), but delivered in a (usually) menacing way. I saw Magazine once--I think it was '81 in San Francisco after McGeoch had left the band and Robin Simon from Ultravox was in his place. They were tremendously tight and put on a powerful, streamlined show. Maybe they had sloppy, untogether gigs elsewhere, but I got the impression they were always very precise and professional (but still passionate) onstage, which is another thing that separated them from many of their peers, who couldn't play nearly as well. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1226 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wish I'd seen Magazine. I had to make do with Luxuria who did "Light" and "Floorboards" and a few other things. They opened for the Fall during the "Kurious Oranj" period. That was a hell of a show! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 576 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kurt, that last point of your's was precisely one of the points I was trying to make. Magazine were exceptionally skilled musicians. A friend of mine used to joke that they were prog-rockers masquerading as post-punk. At any rate, I'll echo Randy's question about the reissues. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1413 Registered: 04-2005 |
It's true--they could really play. I always suspected Formula did time in prog bands before joining Magazine. I suppose I could look it up to see if he did. I don't know if this is true or not, but it seems I've read Adamson had only learned to play bass a short time before Magazine, and in fact, he almost joined the Buzzcocks on bass, or was even a temporary member. In any case, he got good fast. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1613 Registered: 05-2005 |
This thread has just reminded me I never got round to buying the reissues (I downloaded the Napster versions but its hard to tell if the sound is improved), so I have just ordered the first 3 albums from Amazon. Wonder if anybody rates the 4th album, I dont know anybody who does. Actually, I wonder what the band think of it? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 578 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kevin, I rate the 4th album, so at least you know (albeit virtually) one person who does. Honestly, I think it gets unfairly panned. "About the Weather," the lead-off track, is one of my all-time favorite songs. A brilliant and highly successful post-punk take on Motown! I also like near-bubblegum pop "Suburban Rhonda," which hints more subtly at Motown in the verses. Also "The Great Man's Secrets" and "Honeymoon Killers" have a certain moody and plodding yet compelling atmopshere that I quite like. The album certainly has a few duds but all in all, I fail to understand why everyone seems to dislike it. I reckon it's spent as much time on my turn table as any of their other albums. For the record, if I had to choose a favorite it would be "Secondhand Daylight." For me that's their most consistent album, not to mention I love how eerily beautiful Formula's synths sound throughout. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1575 Registered: 05-2005 |
In answer to buying or not not buying the remasters... There you go! Actually, I only have Correct use of soap remasters as it was on offer for the slip of a price tag for £5 in Virgin. Its great. Its sound is very good, as for the others, I will buy them, coz lets face it they are fuck8n amazing. The fourth album I look back fondly and remember listening to it in hot summer months, it was the straight man's Magazine album. My fave 3 mag songs are Parade, Back to Nature and Definitive Gaze, the single. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1614 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt, About The Weather is ace, I just think the album suffers without Migeeock. Has anybody heard the album Devoto and Shelley made a few years back, called Buzzkunst I think? I thought it was ok, somebody copied it for me but I have no idea where it is otherwise I would stick it on. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1615 Registered: 05-2005 |
Sorry, that should read Jeff, not Kurt | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1583 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kev I heard one song from buzzkunst and it was shite. Agred, the a4th album does miss Midges'ock'!! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 579 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, I heard a few Buzzkunst songs and thought they were terrible. It was very buzzy-sounding, simplistic, dischordant punk. It sounded like something that anyone with Protools and a guitar could've knocked together in an afternoon. Yeah, that 4th album does miss McGeoch, and his replacement had some mighty big shoes to fill. But I still feel like it's got enough genuinely good songs to hold up. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1227 Registered: 03-2005 |
I BOUGHT "Buzzkunst." It is probably the single most disappointing thing I have ever gotten. Jeff's description is too kind. Spence's word captures it very well. I pull it out to play every year or so just to make sure it's still as bad as I remember. It always is. This thread reminds me yet again that I never loaded "Magic, Murder" onto iTunes. I remember liking enough of it to make it worth owning. But it IS interesting how I just automatically put the first three on iTunes pronto when I first got this computer and never got around to number four. Historically, my fave Mag album has been "Soap." But at different times I can make a good case for any of the first three, a sure sign of a great band. My fave songs? Well, I know I've touted "Light Pours Out of Me" as the single greatest record ever. I stand by that. Elsewise? "Permafrost," "Philadelphia," "Definitive Gaze," "I Want to Burn Again" and "Feed the Enemy." Screw it . . . everything! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1228 Registered: 03-2005 |
Damn. I forgot "Upside Down." I LOVE "Upside Down." Remember, I started with "After the Fact." | ||
| TROU Member Username: Trou Post Number: 98 Registered: 05-2005 |
Has anybody an opinion on the solo album 'Jerky Versions of the Dream'? At the time I think I liked it very much. The good thing is that it will be released on cd at the beginning of july. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 580 Registered: 10-2004 |
TROU, I *love* "Jerky Version of the Dream." But if my memory serves me correctly, I'm squarely in the minority on this one. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1229 Registered: 03-2005 |
50% of it is good enough to buy. Checking iTunes, I see I loaded 7 songs on. Dave Formula is all over it and Barry Adamson even shows up on a couple of tracks. "Seeing is Believing" is basically a leftover Magazine track. Predictably, it's one of the best things on the album. "Rainy Season" is also great and is as close to commercial success as I ever saw Howard Devoto get here in Los Angeles. "Cold Imagination" is the missing link between Magazine and Luxuria. But he really did need the others; they were all essential. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1617 Registered: 05-2005 |
I have Jerky Versions on vinyl, will stick it on at some point over the weekend. I never saw Magazine, but I did see Devoto when he toured Jerky Versions - I can remember absolutely zilch about the gig - it was 24 years ago after all. Was Buzzkunst really that bad, I guess it must be given the amount of Devoto fans on here who are dissing it. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 582 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yes Kevin, Buzzkunst really was *that* bad! Easily the most heinously disappointing come-back of the decade. This thread prompted me to pull out my Magazine LPs this weekend and give them a spin, as I haven't really listened to them in a few years or more. Sadly, a few of them are worn and just crackly enough to need replacing. I saw the CD reissues in Amoeba the other day, but they didn't look too impressive (no snazzy fold-out digipacks or heaps of bonus tracks or bonus discs... unless I was looking at the wrong reissues....), so I'll be hunting down some good, clean used vinyl copies. Apart from that, all four of those albums sound as brilliant to me as ever. On Devoto solo - Rainy Season is a wonderful song, and Randy is right: it has to have been Devoto's closest brush with mainstream acceptance. I remember the video being played on MTV back when it came out, which is at least an indicator of some concerted push to get Devoto into the heads of more people. Not that it seemed to work, but I do remember seeing that video a few times and that must mean something. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1638 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ok, got the first of my Magazine reissues through the post today, SecondHand Daylight. Aesthetically very disappointing, on opening the package I thought I had been sent the original CD. It was in a jewel case, nothing to indicate it was a remaster (not even a shabby sticker), but a quick glance at the back of the CD showed it included the bonus tracks. The booklet was also a disappointment,an article about the making of the album by somebody called Kieron Tyler, whoever he is? There is no info about the musicians whatsoever, surely a must, and interesting for somebody who was maybe hearing the album for the first time. So to the most important part - the sound. To be honest this album always sounded great, so if I was blindfolded I would not know if it was the original or the remaster that was playing. Bummer, looks like I have shelled out for 4 bonus tracks!! Oh well, maybe Real Life and ...Soap will be better, but I'm not holding my breath. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 588 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kevin, that confirms my suspicion about the new reissues, which I mentioned up above. From just looking at them in the store it was clear that very little love went into their packaging. Virgin's not doing a good job of making people who already own these want to buy them all over again! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1243 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yeah, I can't say why but I was getting this intuition signal that there was no need to buy. Are the extra tracks just songs originally released on "After the Fact?" The article on Sonic Youth's "Daydream Nation" also sends up a warning. If new remasters are going to be f'd up by excessive compression to make them match the dire standard of new releases, I'm going to just hold onto my original (or in some cases, earlier remaster) versions of things. I take it that Virgin did NOT do that with "Secondhand Daylight," right Kevin? I have great faith in your glass-shattering headphones. When it comes to remasters, I look for triumphs like the Triffids' "In the Pines" and the Go-Bees' "Tallulah," both spectacular transformations. Moving back to one of the subthemes to this thread, Jeff's entries prompted me to pull out "Magic, Murder & the Weather." I think it was mostly accident that led to its omission from my original campaign of loading music onto my computer. While the album doesn't quite have the moments of blinding genius that the first three display, along with the songs Jeff cites, I'd have to say that "Vigilance" is right up there with any classic Magazine. The album deserves a fresh look. It scores better than suggested in the otherwise excellent review linked earlier in this thread. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1639 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy, no worries on the over compression score with Secondhand Daylight. I listened to Feed The Enemy on the headphones and it sounds wonderful, this may be the perfect way to listen to this album. Perhaps this was the golden era for music recording, the technology was of a decent standard but we were on the cusp of the dreaded 80s and we all know what that meant: the dawn of atrocious sounding records. The bonus tracks are Give Me Everything, I Love You, You Big Dummy, Rhythm Of Cruelty(single version) and TV Baby which if I remember correctly are on After The Fact, although the UK and US versions of this comp differ. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1645 Registered: 05-2005 |
Real Life and The Correct Use Of Soap turned up today, no improvement aesthetically on Secondhand Daylight unfortunately. In fact the cover for ...Soap is a ghastly limeish green colour as opposed to the original brown cardboard effect. Which got me thinking, I have a very, very vague recollection of the sleeve being available in different colours, or am I mistaken? The sleevenotes on these two are also by Kieron Tyler (I googled him - he writes for Mojo), however I have still to read the sleevenotes so cant comment yet. The music sounds brasher than I remember(but not overcompressed), however even though I also have the first edition of these CDs, over the years I have mostly listened on vinyl which always suited these albums best I felt. The drums on ...Soap sound almost tinny, especially that break in Thankyou Falletinme... where its just Devotos vocals and the snare drum. However, Adamsons bass seems more prominent on most songs which is definately a good thing (not being a sound expert maybe the drums suffer because the focus is now on the bass? Randy?) So, to sum up, songwise these reissues are essential, as far as packaging and sound goes I couldnt see any real improvement to be honest, bearing in mind that Secondhand... always sounded great anyway. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 594 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks for taking a hit for the team, Kevin. Sounds like I'd be just as well off finding some clean copies of the LPs to replace my crackly copies of ...Soap and Real Life. As for the tinny sound of the drums that you're hearing on ...Soap, Hannett gave the drums his typically ultra-bright, crisp sound, and I could see that translating into "tinny" in the digital realm if not properly dealt with during the re-mastering. All it would take is a little upper-mid frequency boost around 12K to turn "bright" and "crisp" into "tinny". | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1664 Registered: 05-2005 |
Maybe I realised at the time, but I sure forgot how prolific Magazine were over 2 years. The sleevenotes with these reissues show that Real Life was released in June 78, Magazine re-entered the studio in January 79 and Secondhand Daylight was in the shops by March!! This seems almost crazy nowadays, some albums can lie in the can for a year or more before being released. In fact, the reason The Thin Air was an instrumental was because Devoto hadnt enough time to put lyrics to the music, such was the rush to get the album out. Correct Use... was recorded in Jan/Feb 1980 and in the shops by April, this seems to be almost tardy in comparison. Martin Hannett has said Correct Use.. was his "best technical production", thats some claim given his work with Joy Division/New Order. Not much more to be gleaned from the sleevenotes I'm afraid, they are pretty minimal with just recording dates,tour dates and snippets of the reviews at the time. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1428 Registered: 04-2005 |
It's true, Kev--things were really different back then. And in those days, musicians were actually playing their instruments and recording to tape--no MIDI, no samples, no ProTools, etc. In those days, good bands were putting out an album a year--or even more--of really worked on, quality stuff. Somehow, I don't think technology has made music better...it's just made people lazier. End of tangent. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1259 Registered: 03-2005 |
I don't think technology is the explanation. I think it's the energy and creativity of youth. There's a period in everyone's life when ideas are just popping in your face one after another. With just about everybody, you can pinpoint their peak time creatively. Magazine only existed for a handful of years. It was obviously the big creative peak for Devoto and probably the others as well. It's also a question of musical chemistry. In Magazine, you had three or four equals. Their individual peaks interacted to whip up a musical maelstrom. I'd say there was something similar (albeit a little less furious) for the mid-80s Go Betweens. What I think technology has done is make music possible for people with ideas but lesser (or maybe even nonexistent) playing ability. Self-servingly, I think that's a very good thing. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1701 Registered: 05-2005 |
I always thought Devoto was just a lyricist, but on checking the credits he writes some of the songs himself, such as Permafrost, Motorcade and Cut out shapes, he also co-wrote The Thin Air (an instrumental) - he's just went up even further in my estimation. Presumably all the other co-writes he does also include musical input, not just lyrics? Anybody know? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1636 Registered: 05-2005 |
Bloody good point and as ever, extremely well articulated Randy. I remember Malcolm Ross teling me about when he was playing uitar for Barry Adamson and they were playing Permafrost, and Malcolm was just aboutto go into the guitar solo, and he caught sight of Devoto sneaking up to the front,and Malcolm blew it, he went to a wrong note! I don't know if I ever mentioned, but they were due to get back together in the last year or so, howvere Devoto wanted it to be a longstanding reunion, whereas no one else did. Malcolm was going to be standing in for McGeogh. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1640 Registered: 05-2005 |
Just spotte dthis: http://cgi.ebay.com/HOWARD-DEVOTO-JERKY- VERSIONS-OF-THE-DREAM-REMASTER-CD_W0QQit emZ260133528264QQihZ016QQcategoryZ58594Q QrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem By the way noone has touched upon Play, the live album?? |