| Author | Message | ||
     Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1730 Registered: 05-2005 |
Had anyone else heard it? I'm playing it right now and it is superb. It goes beyond my expectations for it, which were already high as I love Radio Nowhere (the teaser for the album, don't think it was actually a single, just a free download) so much. There's not a poor track on Magic. Bruce is back! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 915 Registered: 08-2006 |
I completely agree, Padraig. I thought "Devils and Dust" was a return to form after the patchy "The Rising," but I was afraid he'd get all stiff and monolithic again working with the E Street Band. So I'm really surprised how melodic the new record is (although maybe not as spry as the E Street Band of old). Even on songs that start like monochromatic rockers there is some little twist of tempo or key that changes things up. And "Girls in Their Summer Clothes" might be the prettiest song he's ever written. Plus, it's an unexpected tip of the hat to one B. Wilson. As I think I mentioned on some other thread, it's also a relief that he's not shouldering a Big Statement for the entire record. It sounds like he made a record from the best tunes he had lying around, not the weightiest themes. About damn time. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2292 Registered: 03-2006 |
Adding my voice to the hosannas and huzzahs. I actually liked the Rising and Devils and Dust, but this is far better, pretty much great all the way through (don't know about Terry's Song), a killa and a chilla in Manila, or however that expression goes...I have 'em all, and I really think this is the most purely pop record he's ever made - very lean, very concise. No 10 minute epics, no 5 minute solos by the Big Man (blow, Big Man, blow) and, as Rob points out, no big themes. Okay, well maybe on a couple of songs - "Devil's Arcade" and "Last One to Die" seem to be about a certain pointless little war, but that's it. It makes you wonder why he doesn't do this all the time, since he seems so readily capable. It reminds me of Seinfeld's joke about the indestructible material they make the black boxes from airplanes from: why don't they make the whole plane out of it? | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 822 Registered: 01-2005 |
I'm a couple of Bruce's behind, as I don't have the new one or "Devils and Dust". The last one I played a lot was "The Ghost of Tom Joad". | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1731 Registered: 05-2005 |
I love The Rising and Devils And Dust too, but yeah, Magic might be better. It's certainly sunnier of disposition most of the way through as Rob and LK indicated above. I don't have the folky one that came between D&D and Magic. Is it worth getting fellas? | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 916 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'd say "The Seeger Sessions" are pretty good, Padraig, but I don't have a ton of interest in cover records as a rule. So while I'm glad I heard it, I don't expect it'll be the record I put on when I need a Springsteen fix. Apparently, Ben Greenman feels the same way about "Magic." His brief review in this week's New Yorker magazine: ""Magic” (Columbia), Bruce Springsteen’s new studio album, kicks off with the brooding, propulsive “Radio Nowhere.” “I just want to hear some rhythm,” Springsteen sings, railing like a lay preacher against the blandness of contemporary music. If the song came at the end of the album, it might sound like an apology; “Magic” feels inert and calculated, full of stormy guitar, gelatinous keyboards, and melodramatic strings. The production seems to be hiding something—perhaps it’s the album’s generic heart. Springsteen’s best albums have always had a thesis: youth is invincibility, the American dream is hollow, divorce can crush you. “Magic” is simply a collection of songs. Some are strong, particularly the lovely “Girls in Their Summer Clothes” and the spooky, minimalist title track. But with neither a center nor eccentricities, the balance of the album just sounds like Springsteen playing Springsteen." | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2295 Registered: 03-2006 |
I beg to differ, Rob. Could just be me, but that review seems pretty lukewarm, sort of damning it with extremely faint praise. Words like "inert, calculated, generic", etc. don't add up to "must have". I disagree with the priggish reviewer in general, but specifically over whether Springsteen's records have always had a thesis. "The River" and "The Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle" didn't really have themes, as far as I could tell, apart from, you know, great songs. Btw Padraig, I don't know if the Seeger Sessions is essential, but it's still excellent. It's amazing how relevant and topical all of those songs still are. If you get it, be sure and get the deluxe version, which has his version of "How Can a Poor Man Stand Such Times and Live?", which he played at the New Orleans Jazz Festival, re-tooled to feature lyrics about Katrina. | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 164 Registered: 01-2007 |
How do you guys get the CD. It's released in the UK on monday but radio seem to be playing it, so far heard 4-5 songs and all sound great. I'm getting old and long for tunes, melody etcetcetc,so little of it about of quality. I hear Randy sighing quietly in the background. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 917 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's definitely a negative review, LK. I think my lead-in to it was a little too tortured, maybe. I disagree with the review, too, but I wouldn't be surprised if there are more than a few like it forthcoming. I thought it sounded kind of generic when I first heard it - I'm not a huge fan of the highly polished production - but it has sunk in in a way about half of "The Rising" never did. Is it classic Springsteen? I don't think so. But I like it a lot. Frank, I can't speak for Padraig, but there was a music blog that had it posted for a while a couple weeks back. I'll be buying my own hard copy, of course, because I'm still a sucker for artwork and liner notes. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1379 Registered: 03-2005 |
Frank, you really made me laugh there! I HAD been avoiding this thread, doing my damnedest not to say a thing. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1826 Registered: 05-2005 |
Me too Randy, I really was biting my cybre tongue!! Apart from some songs off Nebraska, this guy is just too preachy, bombastic and earnest for me. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1827 Registered: 05-2005 |
But what do I know. Just read the new issues of Mojo and Uncut. Mojo gives the new Brooooce album 5 stars, and allocates it "Instant Mojo Classic". Uncut gives it a more modest 4 stars. I was more excited to see that Mojo review a new Neil Young album called Chrome Dreams II, also allocating it 5 stars and "Instant Mojo Classic". Apparently its all about the Iraq war, and class war. Nice to see the old grizzly bugger hasnt lightened up any!! | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 329 Registered: 01-2006 |
I'm with Randy and kevin on Bruce but again what do I know? Kevin, I've read a bit about Chrome Dreams II...and of course I'm gonna pick it up... Check out his website for more info... Neil Young Announces Fall Tour, Chrome Tracklist Neil Young's new album, Chrome Dreams II, comes out on Reprise on October 16. Two days later, Young will begin his fall tour, which includes stops at his own Bridge School benefit and a two-night stand at Toronto's Massey Hall, a place he is well aquainted with. In a Prince-like move, people who purchase tickets to the fall shows will also receive a copy of Chrome Dreams II. And in case you're balking on placing that Ticketmaster order until you know exactly what's on the album, Billboard.com has just revealed the tracklist. It's got one song, "Ordinary People", that stretches out over 18 minutes, and another, "No Hidden Path", that's over 11 minutes. As if that wasn't likely to be trippy enough, Billboard also reports that "the album will also be available with a bonus DVD featuring 'super-saturated' high-resolution audio and a moving video image." Chrome Dreams II tracklist: 01 Beautiful Bluebird 02 Boxcar 03 Ordinary People 04 Shining Light 05 The Believer 06 Spirit Road 07 Dirty Old Man 08 Ever After 09 No Hidden Path 10 The Way | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 918 Registered: 08-2006 |
I've heard a lot of advance praise for the new Neil. Hope it's as good as advertised. By the way, as much as I'm enjoying the new Springsteen, I'm going with the 4-star review. Mojo falls into that breathless, Rolling Stone syndrome a bit too often, where any half-decent record by a longstanding artist of note is praised as a classic. Hand it to Pitchfork, they're no more accurate, but at least they hyperventilate over artists who need the money. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2296 Registered: 03-2006 |
I'm giving it 5 stars, based on Frank's excellent rationale. I'm gettin' old and I wanna hear some tunes, godammit. Gimme a f-in' melody for chrissake! Magic is 10 or 11, fantastic, breathtaking tunes all stacked up to give pleasure. By the same token that life is too short to drink bad wine, it's all too short to listen to bad, tuneless and boring records. | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 166 Registered: 01-2007 |
Is there tow groups of go-betweens fans those that also like Bruce/Elvis Costello and those that don't. Just struck me that those of us who a liking or looking forward to the bruce are also elvis fans.May be I'm wrong but it seems that way | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 722 Registered: 10-2004 |
I suppose I'm in the Randy/Kevin contingent on Bruce. A few times I hesitantly glanced at this thread, only to quickly hit the back button and high-tail it back to Go-Betweens-land for fear that I'd say something that might stir up the peaceful, harmless Bruce worship occurring here. Sure, he's got a few songs I can appreciate, but ultimately it's best if I leave it with a tactful "he's just not my thing," or a "I just don't get it, but that's cool." | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2299 Registered: 03-2006 |
We don't be meanin' nothin' disrespekful, Massa Jeff! We just peacefully be worshipping de Bruce...no need to get out the riot gear or tear gas - we ain't make no fuss... Seriously, I appreciate the spirit of detente - it's what makes Go-Betweensland such a beautiful place - it's big enough to take in many different musical persuasions; it contains multitudes. And, I'm sure it's in that same spirit of detente that I and others have not chimed in negatively to some of the lengthy worship sessions for artists we care nothing about - Echo & the Bunnymen, the Cocteau Twins, the Fall et al. More power to thems that actually do like 'em, they just do nothing for me. But different strokes... Actually, I do like the Fall, sort of, but am just puzzled as to why anybody would need more than a couple of discs by them. No disrespect intended, Kev, but I have "50,000 Fall Fans" and it's a gracious plenty. And actually, there is a connection, of sorts, between Bruce and the GBs. Grant, at least, was a fan and actually covered at least one Springsteen song, "If I Should Fall Behind". | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 723 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, the detente is certainly nice. It's annoying to have some lout completely trash the music you love via a message board. Although I'm sure I'm guilty of letting out a few snide remarks here or there, but it's never meant to be mean-spirited or anything. The Bruce thing, in particular, is interesting in that it's fascinating to see the different directions Go-Betweens fans go off into when they're not listening to the Go-Betweens. I've certainly not come across anyone here that shares my love of 60s Brazilian Samba and Bossa Nova, and yet liking that stuff and liking the Go-Betweens makes total sense in my deranged little mind. | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 104 Registered: 02-2007 |
Its like we're all in a Venn diagram, with a lot of intersecting circles. Right in the middle in a small space (mayb not so small) is the common thread , the GBs, and as we move out all the other stuff appears, sometimes overlapping, sometimes not. I wouldn't ever waste my hard earned and see Steely Dan, but by the sound of Patriag and others it was a brilliant show. Just not for me. No judgements needed. Oh well back to listning to my teenage son's Cd collection as I'm on holiodays - Rage Aagainst Machine, Led Zeppilin, Mettallica. My son, what have I done! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1828 Registered: 05-2005 |
Another 5 star review for Broooce in The Independent. However, I can console myself with the fact that the Independent reviewer is the infamous Andy Gill. Yes, the self same nutter that gave the last REM album 5 stars!! LK - Grant, much as I loved him, is what I would call a traditional,mainstream, oldfashioned songwriter, and a such I would be gobsmacked if he didnt appreciate somebody like Broooce. I could be wrong, but I would guess that Robert, being more off kilter and adventurous in his approach to songwriting, would not be a fan. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2300 Registered: 03-2006 |
Kev, if by "traditional" you mean good, talented, melodically gifted, etc., I agree completely! Now ya got me curious what the rags in the states are gonna say about the new Brooce. Looks like the fix could be in, but I ain't bettin' the farm on it until Christgau weighs in! | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1537 Registered: 04-2005 |
I think they're going to love the new Springsteen, LK--they've been waiting for him to make a straight-ahead rockin' album with good tunes and no heavy concept. I'm also curious how the new John Fogerty album, "Revival," will be received, as it's a very self-conscious (albeit utterly convincing) return to the CCR style. Will it be viewed as overly reactionary on his part, or hailed as a return to form? David's points about the Go-Betweens are very true, because the band straddled disparate styles that most groups didn't--on one hand, they had a foot in the angular, avant garde style of postpunk and were certainly not uninfluenced by stuff like Gang of Four, Joy Division, the Cure, etc. (even if they denied it later), plus they had songwriting influences outside of the usual banal boy/girl stuff. On the other hand, they loved good, concise, traditional pop tunes, even when they were the product of prefab commerce (read RF's column on "Countdown" for an example of how open-minded he could be about pop). What other group professes to loving the Monkees yet featured backing vocals from a member of the Raincoats? So it's not surprising that they drew some fans who were listening to the Pop Group, Scritti Politti, and the Fall, and others who liked Springsteen, CCR, and Dylan. And most of us fall somewhere in between, liking some but not all of either "camp." And they hit on some other levels too--for example, being one of the least sexist heterosexual rock groups ever, yet having a campy, flash performer like Forster, which resonated with those of us who cut our teeth on Roxy Music, Bowie, Lou Reed, etc. If there's anything to learn from the greatness of the Go-Betweens, it's that open-mindedness is a good thing, and great music can come from any source if you just give it a chance. Categories are limitations--boxes we choose to confine ourselves in. So can't we all just get along? | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2303 Registered: 03-2006 |
Extremely eloquent and sage, Kurt. What a diplomat! Kissinger, Zbiegnew Brzezinski, Condo-lee-ayza, Jesse Jackon? None of them have a thing on our own Kurt Stephan. All your points are extremely well-taken. Is it any wonder that, given the myriad influences the Go-Betweens brought to bear on their art, their fans cover the waterfront as well? And, as they got better, they just abandoned any adherence to any particular style or camp (though Robert retained his campiness), and shed layer upon layer of affectation, ultimately becoming themselves, which was when they were at their absolute best. Reading some of those reviews and essays, it really is apparent that Forster is knowledgeable and fluent in a pretty staggering range of different styles of music and art, from the traditional (I recall one fairly glowing tribute to Nana Mousokouri, the chick with the glasses, for chrissake!) to the fairly outre. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 716 Registered: 09-2006 |
Hear hear, well spoken, Bruce (a reference for fellow Python geeks out there)...but seriously, wise words. My two cents: Despite many years of listening and loving his stuff and a pretty damn transcendent live show I saw in 2001, but for probably about ten years his albums have mostly fallen into the "listen to a few times and like just fine but never feel that compelled to put them on again" category. "Devils and Dust" kept me coming back a little more, comparatively. I'm definitely looking forward to hearing the new one, but I'm definitely more excited for the Neil - for me he only had one period like that, and he's long past it. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 921 Registered: 08-2006 |
This is a generalization (do I ever offer up anything else?) but I've long noticed that geography plays at least some roll in how people view Springsteen. In the US, it's much more common for someone who likes non-mainsteam music to admit to a fondness for Bruce. My European friends who have what I'd call good taste in music, however, don't feel that way at all. They look at Springsteen and see just another bloviating, arena-filling mega-star. I know that's not a universal truth (i.e. Padraig) but it is a fact that most of my friends on the Continent roll their eyes when I get all hot and bothered about whatever Springsteen record I happen to be talking up. I do understand why some people just can't get with the guy. And there's no way the new record is gonna change that, no matter how good the reviews are (wait for the backlash, though). It's too much like archetypal, big-sound Bruce. Most Springsteen doubters tend to prefer his more musically modest stuff, like "Nebraska," which is usually the one you find in young indie-rockers' CD collections. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1829 Registered: 05-2005 |
Rob, well put my friend. If I knew what bloviating meant I am sure it would describe how I feel about him, a word like that could never be complimentary could it!! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 922 Registered: 08-2006 |
Thanks, Kev. Here's this, from my own personal dictionary: "blo·vi·at·ing (adj): see Bono Vox." | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 256 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great word, Rob. The second I read it, I thought of the pompous Mr Hewson. There may be a third category of Go-Bes fan, where it comes to Bruce. I'm a bit middle of the road about him. Not so much an "I can take or leave him", more like a bunny-rabbit, stranded in the middle of the road, with 18-wheeler juggernauts coming at me from both directions! On the one hand, if I hear Baaaawwwwrn in the YOU ESS AAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! on the radio one more time, I'll kill something. On the other hand, I was recently introduced to Grant's wonderful version of If I Should Fall Behind, (Had never had the Surround Me EP). I’ve investigated the original, and think it’s a damn fine song (but I’ll always prefer Grant’s version). So now I don’t know which camp I fall into. Oh, the inner turmoil! I’ll have to get myself thoroughly Brucified, and see at the end of the process, what I think. Is he only bombastic fist-in-the-air stadium rawk, or is there a sensitive soul lurking within, and who’s not just trying to cram this year’s right-on cause down my throat! As Tom Reynolds said in I Hate Myself And Want To Die, that he’d hate to be in a Bruce Springsteen song, cause you end up unemployed, in a bad marriage to someone called Mary, and your truck won’t work (or something like that, I don’t have the book beside me at the mo) | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2304 Registered: 03-2006 |
You don't want that, Catherine. You'll have to get a new wardrobe, wear ripped jeans and a red bandanna, talk with a Jersey accent, drive '77 Camaro, etc. You'll have to steal cars, walk on the promenade, get your shirt caught on the Tilt A Whirl, learn the E Street shuffle and exhort the Big Man to "blow"... Actually "Bawn in the U Ess Ay" is a perfect example of the conundrum of the Bruce. Of all the ways he is perpetually misunderstood, though laughing all the way to bank about it, I'm sure. But he's quite a complex artist, who's written easily as many "Fall Behind"s as "Bawn"s..."Born" (I can totally see why it annoys the piss out of you), was actually appropriated by Republicans that year it came out, because they inaccurately perceived it as being pro-America, when it's actually a pretty scathing indictment of its war policies. It's actually, whatayacallit, ironic. Which, given the spirited way he sings it, lends a lovely tension. I think the geographical theory, while interesting, doesn't really begin to explain why some folks who like "indie music" don't like him. It doesn't explain, for starters, Padraig and Frank B., or Badly Drawn Bear or whatever his name is, or the hordes that will flock to all the big sheds when he plays over there. I think it has more to do with the type of music lover who self-identifies as "indie" and has rigid ideas about that. One of the hallmarks of the indie world as we know it is lack of affect, a certain sense of irony and ennui, etc. Which can be great - look at Pavement, for instance - I, in fact, am obviously a huge fan of a lot of artists that employ that sensibility. But the problem is, as always, when it's stretched too far and becomes a goal unto itself. Then you're left with that flat, boring world that so typifies indie music today, all those dweeby artists that haunt Pitchfork, so solipsistic they're in perpetual danger of disappearing up their own fundament. So, Bruce's overtly passionate style, his extroversion, his butchness, if you will, is going to seem pretty unhip, pretty naff, to your classic, card-carrying, badge-wearing "indie fan". I'm not sure what the dictionary definition of "bombast" is, but I'm pretty sure you ain't being it if you really mean it! It's a lot like the division between the styles of hot jazz (as typified by Miles) and cool jazz (Chet Baker) in the 50's. They're both totally valid means of expression and great music to boot - why do you have to choose? Why does one have to be in a camp, anyway? It's not like it's Democrat or Republican... My theory, anyway. So yeah, Bruce has scads, tons, of great, insightful, sensitive songs that will pierce you to your soul. Judging him on the basis of the fist-pumping, red bandanna-wearing, heartland rocker image, would be no more accurate than if someone saw a picture of Forster in a dress and said, "what are they? a Rocky Horror Show tribute band?". There's obviously a lot more beneath that one-dimensional image. ps - Reynolds' bit reminds me the joke about what happens if you play a country music song backwards. Do you get out of prison, does your woman come back to you, do Mama and your dog come back to life? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1385 Registered: 03-2005 |
"Butchness?" Didn't somebody on here once tell a story of riding in Springsteen's car? He was a fearful, timid driver--the scariest type there is, if you are the passenger. It didn't sound butch to me. Everything I've ever read about Springsteen convinces me that he is a genuinely good, sweet guy and because of that I do not feel at all OK with bagging him. He is not Van Morrison. But like Van, he has unquestionably written a lot of great songs. Also like Van I enjoy them much more when done by somebody else. This "indie" straw man makes me suspicious. It reminds me of the insidious use of "eclectic" in a context that feels just a little bit self-congratulatory to me. There are a 101 reasons why Springsteen might not resonate for somebody, including culture and geography. He is very much a US East Coast troubadour. His messages simply might not strike a sympathetic chord for a lot of folks not from there or not somehow fascinated with that part of the planet. The solo artist singer/songwriter always has a basic problem of falling into monotony for the listener. That's Springsteen's problem and Costello's and Ron Sexsmith's and--for that matter--Cat f'g Stevens'. It's a solo artist's curse. Remember Carole King? Can songwriting ever get better than hers? But her own records? Lordy! You may like them but you can't call them dynamic. Admit it: your favorite versions of her songs are done by someone else. Grant and Robert did a brilliant thing with the Go Betweens. They were pooled their talents. With TWO singer/songwriters in a band, the hazard of monotony was averted. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 923 Registered: 08-2006 |
I think Bruce's inability to embrace irony is definitely one of the reasons he's not popular in certain circles. Irony-for-irony's-sake has become the coin of the realm in hard-core indieland, along with dolor, self-pity and navel-gazing. Don't get me wrong, I like irony, and traffic in it often, but in music it's a lot more affecting when someone aims for some universal truth as opposed to some insular joke. Can you imagine an indie rocker today writing a song like "Bachelor Kisses"? Jesus, the guys at Pitchfork would organize a lynching. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2306 Registered: 03-2006 |
I remember that story. I loved that story. I actually thought it humanized him even more. But, I was talking about Bruce's received image, how he's perceived by the masses. And once again, the indie "straw man" is just my theory. But I think, though I probably imperfectly expressed it, it's a valid point. Listeners more more used affectlessness aren't going to cotton to Bruce's more overtly emotive style. (Btw, I didn't think I was using the word "indie" in anything resembling a congratulatory style, self or otherwise.) And, absolutely there are gazillions of reasons ole Brucie might not resonate, but I'm dubious about your East Coast idea, Rand. That was, basically, one album. It's like the red bandanna, or Robert's dress, or even better, thinking somebody might be put off of the GBs because some of their songs feature some hardcore Brisbane references ("What's all this Shields St. shit? Who gives a rat's ass? I'm from Sydney, dammit!"). His stuff since "the Wild, the Innocent and the E Street Shuffle" has pretty much referenced the whole planet. Carole King's records don't move me for the simple reason that I ain't that crazy about her singing, despite her admittedly great writing. I give some credence to your idea about the monotony of solo singer/songwriter records, since the Go-Betweens records were somewhat more absorbing than the solo records, but I'm not sure that theory really flies, either. I think it has more to do with how much you like the artist, how much you're into the "feeling space" (for lack of a better expression) of what they do. For instance, I know a lot of good, smart, shrewd people, with otherwise excellent taste, who've resisted my attempts to turn them on to the GBs, who've found them dull as dishwater. As much as it dismays me, I'm left with the conclusion that, "they just aren't that into them". | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2007 |
For me Bruce is not stadium (though I've seen him in them) them music I love of his, are he slower pensive, reflective ones- seem to resonate with me more, I like the ones no one else seems to enjoy Side 4 of the River, drive all night one of my favouriets for example, I love the idea of America and his cinematic approach to writing probably complements my own cliches of what it is like. On the Steely Dan front- I don't get them and thought I was on the wrong board, I guess I'm with LK on this issue. As Randy says Carole King has written great songs but her LPs don't add up even Tapestry. what got me thinking about this whole issue was a similarity I'd noticed between some of us LK and myself and the cooler more refined, restrained members. Anyway I'll be wearing my check shirt this weekend and playing side 4 of the River until monday | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2308 Registered: 03-2006 |
Love "Drive All Night", Frank, that's a great one. Perfect for romancing your favorite Jersey girl to...I gotta find me one of them all night shoe stores, though. I believe there is a definite nexus between Springsteen, Van Morrison and Costello. Morrison has lambasted his imitators in song, and I'm pretty sure he thinks Springsteen is one of them. The influence of Van on Bruce is pretty clear to me in songs like "Rosalita". And you can hear a lot of Van in early Elvis C., who has acknowledged that influence in interviews and by covering "Jackie Wilson Said". And Elvis, though it seems like he slagged Bruce quite a bit in his early years (he slagged pretty much everybody, but John Cooper Clarke), has professed a lot of admiration for him in recent times. He even covered the Boss' "Brilliant Disguise" for a set of tunes he was encouraging George Jones to record. I think that version's on the "Blood and Chocolate" bonus disc. I love Springsteen's cinematic vision of America, too, warts and all. It's still here, too - things aren't all the subprime lending crisis, pollution, , wide stances, "we have to fight them over there, so they don't fight us here", etc. Bush hasn't completely ruined the country yet, though he's tried really hard. You should come check it out, Frank, but come soon, and avoid the red states! | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1538 Registered: 04-2005 |
You know, Rob, I think "Bachelor Kisses" would be OK with Pitchfork if it was done by a new artist because of how much they've embraced gentle, sensitive freak-folk or whatever you want to call it (Sufjan Stevens, Devendra Bernhardt or whatever his name is, Joanna Newsom, etc.). But an older, established artist doing a song like that? Yeah, I agree--they'd get 'forked over. That's the inherent contradiction/hypocrisy of Pitchfork that annoys me: new artist ripping off or sounding similar to an older artist = good, older artist doing what they do best = bad. It's important to tout new music, but not all older stuff needs to be trashed in the process. I guess that's the folly of youth, though--and why EC bashed Bruce in the '70s and talks him up now. Kill yr idols, or something... You all make some great points about Springsteen, and I can see both sides because I'm kind of on the fence about him. I've liked some of his work a great deal, but the more high-concept or theatrical he gets, the less I like him. And he can veer into rockist territory more than I'm comfortable with, though his good-time rockin' music is genuine, I'd say--it's just not my sort of thing. But I like everything I've heard from the new album, and it'll probably be the first new Bruce album I've bought since the '80s. Good call on Carole King, too--the first pop concert I ever saw in my life was her in '74. Such a nice, sincere person and great songwriter; such a boring, monotonous live performer. She has a nice sound in small doses, but just doesn't have the voice, stage presence, or musical inventiveness to carry off solo performances. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1739 Registered: 05-2005 |
I've just read every single word of all the posts in this thread I hadn't seen already. What a fascinating discussion. I love all the theories on Bruce hating Euro-trash, indie straw men and monotonous solo artists. I may not agree with every word; but damn if I don't enjoy reading it. (I'm particularly gratified to not be lumped in with the Kevin/Catherine/etc Euro-trash axis of evil). LK, Shield St is in Cairns, not Brisbane. It was Randy who first introduced the word 'bloviate' to this board. I even accused him of making it up. He hadn't. It means what it sounds like it means. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 926 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ha! Euro-trash axis of evil! I've only been up 15 minutes and I won't read anything funnier all day. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2310 Registered: 03-2006 |
Padraig: whatev. It's all Brisbane to me...that actually just highlights the point that geographical references mean naught when it comes to appreciating a song. You don't have to have been there, know the first thing about it really, to enjoy a song about it. The new Entertainment Weekly just came out with a lavish, absurdly over the top rave of Magic, giving it an A and calling it Bruce's best since "the River". I dunno about that, as much I like the new one, I am actually a huge fan of "Bawn in the USA", even with all the bombast and stadium rock, screaming and big guitar sounds. Get past all those trappings, and there're some great, sly, subtle songs. LIke "Glory Days" - big hit, arena rocker, etc., but Jesus, what a beautifully limned, funny, wry song - let's face it: at the end of the day, aging is funny. I marvel at what great songwriting it is every single time I hear it. The Bruce, he rules! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1832 Registered: 05-2005 |
Get past all these trappings  Classic!! Flicking through Q magazine today I was amazed to see they only gave Broooces album 3 stars. Jeez, it must truly be crap, cos they always give a minimum of 4, if not 5 stars to albums by artists like him. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2314 Registered: 03-2006 |
Yeah, but does anybody really take Q seriously? Isn't it one of those qutter press rags more suitable for lining birdcages? I mean, seriously, they just have a letter for a title? What, they couldn't afford a whole word? They couldn't be bothered to come up with one? See, I'm like the Bush administration, I will twist things around, discount anything that doesn't jibe with my reality. Seriously, a little balance is in order, probably - maybe it'll help stem in some small way the inevitable backlash. They can't ALL be 5 star reviews. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1833 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK, I'm with you on Qs attributes. However, my point was that artists like Springsteen can normally bank on Q to give positive, if not glowing reviews. The fact they didnt made me take note. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2318 Registered: 03-2006 |
Huh. This new one is such a return to the classic sound, the E Street basics, that it's hard for me to imagine someone receptive to Bruce not going wild for it. Maybe they're more fans of the darker, less E St. sounding styles of Rising and Devils & Dust. You've got me curious - I'll have to read that when it hits the newsstands here. Luckily, Barnes and Noble has a nice, comfy leather chair for me to enjoy that in, so I won't actually have to lay down money for that rag. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 929 Registered: 08-2006 |
His best since the "The River"? Reviewers always tip their hands when they make statements like that. For me, "The River" lands somewhere in the middle of his catalog; I play "Devils and Dust" more often. I'm happy for all the positive reviews this albums gets, but giving it an A because it has glockenspiel (like "Born to Run"!) or whatever is the kind of shit the invites backlash. My Christgau bet: B+ (60%)/A- (40%). It will not get an A, and I'd be surprised if he relegated it to "honorable mention" or worse. LK, what's your bet? | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2320 Registered: 03-2006 |
I think an A, honestly. I know that flies in the face of our usual, grizzled, I've seen it all, we don't hand out A's easily, cynical reaction, but I think it's that good. Based on this: it has gravitas, the lyrics are way deeper and more profound than the perfect pop settings might let on. I listened to it yesterday during my run and realized that: a) musically, it's pretty much flawless, and b) lyrically, it's some heavy shit, man. In fact, that other review you quoted really did get it all wrong - it definitely has a thesis, that thesis being the war and the way Bush has f-ed up our country, using smoke and mirrors to pull a fast one, hence the title song: "I've got a shiny saw blade/All I need's a volunteer". See, I didn't realize that that song, and the album, weren't about the GOOD kind of magic. Even the songs that seem like they are "just" love songs, have a lot more depth and substance than might initially meet the eye (unintentional riffing on the "magic" theme), like "I'll Work for Your Love", which reminds me of "Bye Bye Pride" in its clever juxtaposition of a conventional pop chorus with poetic, image-laden verses. This morning, btw, I saw this great piece on it from the NYT: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/arts/m usic/30scot.html?ex=1191816000&en=4fab35 735a049024&ei=5070&emc=eta1 If you wanna read that, be quick - it seems like they only keep things free for about 10 nanoseconds. If you're like me, and were raised with certain idealistic notions about our country and can remember way back before the idea of being a "patriot" was subverted and it was a beautiful thing, the lyrics the article quotes from "Long Walk Home" will definitely give you a lump in the throat. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1752 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great story in the NYT on the album. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/arts/m usic/30scot.html?th&emc=th | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1835 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeez, thats scary! Our American correspondant posts the NYT link one minute (go-betweens time) before our Australian correspondant. But with different time zones, LK might be posting while thinking "hmm, what will I have for breakfast this fine Sunday morning?" Padraig makes his post while thinking "shit, its after 2am Monday morning, I better get to bed!!" | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 258 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm part of a "Euro-trash axis of evil"? Because I'm fed up of hearing Born in the USA on the radio? Thanks a f**king bunch! I made a comment about one Bruce Springsteen song, and readily admitted that I wasn't as familiar with his full back-catalogue as would allow me to give an opinion of him. A lot of the reason I'm fed up of BITUSA is, as LK mentioned, because the people who seem to have adopted it as their anthem have obviously not listened to the words. I listened to the words, and got them. I just got fed up of the song, because I was sick of hearing it at nightclubs in the eighties, being hoarsely roared by bunches of idiots in U2 T-shirts, still waiting for the testosterone to kick in, who barely knew where the US was, never mind having been born there. As a result of this thread, I spent a lot of time over the weekend listening to Bruce Springsteen's back catalogue, because I genuinely did want to figure if I liked him or not. I gave every song a fair chance, and didn't allow any pre-conceived notion to colour my opinion. I'll keep my opinion to myself, as It's already been decided for me what my opinion of Bruce Springsteen is, based on one humourous comment about one song. | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 86 Registered: 10-2006 |
Ah, come on CV, I think the Eurotrash axis comment was meant to be humorous too. Let's hear what you've decided!! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 932 Registered: 08-2006 |
Padraig was definitely making funny with that comment, Catherine. Hey, forget Springsteen - anyone who appreciates Flipper is A-OK in my book! | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 259 Registered: 05-2005 |
I’ve listened to so much Bruce over the last few days, I think my skin is turning to plaid flannel. When I opened my front door this morning, I felt like I should be getting into my Buick, to drive to work at the Dairy Queen or the Steel Mill… At least I understand the shirt in the Tilt a Whirl reference now! Still though, I think I'll keep my newly formed opinion of Bruce's back catalogue (and new release) to myself. I figure I'm damned either way. Apparently, it’s now cool to “admit” to liking Bruce Springsteen. It seems a lot of the hip new indie acts are “coming out” as Springsteen heads. So if I was to say that I’ve been converted to being Brucie’e No.1 fan, I’ll be accused of jumping on the E-Street-Band-wagon. On the other hand, if I said I hated every syllable, he uttered, every tinkle of glockenspiel, every blast of Clarence’s Sax, anything I say has already been dismissed as the utterings of some piece of eurotrash. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1843 Registered: 05-2005 |
Well Catherine, I couldnt give a damn if its cool or uncool to like him. Ive always hated his music as much as I hate Elton John, Phil Collins, Bono/U2 and Sting, if that makes me a part of some Eurotrash axis of evil I am fucking made up!! There was me thinking I was cool because I had no body artwork, only to find out it was cool to like some preaching, bombastic,lecturing, check shirted spokesman for the people. Life sucks eh? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1799 Registered: 05-2005 |
There's taste, then there's Bruce Springsteen. Put it this way. '84, Art College disco, me prancing like a tit to The Smiths, The Cult and Microdisney on the dance floor. Then, 'Dancing like a tit in the dark' comes on, no more prancing like a tit! Savvy!? | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 333 Registered: 01-2006 |
Hah, well said boys! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2325 Registered: 03-2006 |
Spence, I'm certain you could dance like a tit to Springsteen. He's very tit-friendly... | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2326 Registered: 03-2006 |
Catherine, of course keep your own counsel, but I gotta say: I just know you through here, but you seem like a genuine music fan, someone who just likes music for music's sake, and if it moves you, you like it. You don't get hung up on preconceptions, prejudices or the trappings or packaging it comes in. So, whatever your thoughts on the Bruce were, good, bad or indifferent, I'd tend to think you had judged him on his "merits", not the 10 second, sound byte version of him. ps - the new Sharon Jones record comes out today. Be there or be square! | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 262 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm beginning to wish I'd kept my mouth shut and my head down! Of course I knew the Eurotrash remark was meant in humour, and I swear I did intend for my reply to be in humour too, I just got p'd off at assumptions being made, based on one flippant comment about one song. That thing about it now being cool to like Bruce made me laugh when I heard a Radio DJ comment on it, because it reminded me of when it suddenly became cool to like Kylie, just because she duetted with Nick Cave. In the same way, the hip-n-trendy set are now claiming to be fans of Bruce just because their indie-band heroes name-check him as an influence. What gets to me is that some always were fans, but wouldn't admit it when it wasn't cool, and others are pretending to be fans now, simply because it is cool. It goes equally for Bruce or Kylie, or anyone else for that matter. That's obviously not the reason around here! We all seem more than ready to say what we like or don't, and that's a very good thing. David's Venn Diagram description really does sum up everybody's taste. There's some music, which I'm not crazy about, and some I really can't stand, but I'm open to it, even if it's just to figure out what people like about it. Reggae, for instance, I only like a fraction of, so I keep out of discussions. At the same time, I appreciate it, because it was influence on Bluebeat and Ska, two types of music I quite like. By the same token, because I'm open to something new, I've been introduced to some amazing music I would never have heard, if it wasn't for this board - where else would Sharon Jones and Flipper be mentioned on the same message board/website other than amazon? Where else would someone who actually likes both Sharon Jones and Flipper get a chance to open her mouth? That's why I was honest about Bruce - I knew I didn't really know his stuff, despite being aware of him forever. But up to very recently, any opinion I had of him was based on probably only 10% of his material. Hence the flippant "Baaaawwwrn" comment, which, c'mon, is a little bit funny! Surely we all have a memory of some drunken guy, fist aloft, roaring that line? Or maybe we were that drunken guy?? Little did I know that my comment would stir up a hornet's nest in this previously "peaceful, harmless Bruce worshipping" thread!! | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 108 Registered: 02-2007 |
"Peaceful , harmless worshipping of anything" must die Catherine! Having said that I enjoy Bruce in moderate doses and think he has written quite a few remarkable songs. I divorce said Sprinsteen from any non-song baggage, eg stadium rock, social conscience rock, activist rock, American tradition blah, blah. If I like the songs, thats it folks, I like the songs. Not familiar witth last coupla almums. Here are my 10 favourite, in random order. 1. Adam Raised a Cain 2. Independence Day 3. Hungry Heart 4. DownBound Train 5. Atlantic City 6. Used Cars 7. The Ghost Of Tom Joad 8. Across The Border 9. Brilliant Disguise 10. State Trooper No E-street band in sight for most of these, thats when Bruce is at his most honest/raw/personal/moving. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1803 Registered: 05-2005 |
I don't mind Bruce that much, he's ok. Guess like all the greats, he's had good and bad stuff. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 940 Registered: 08-2006 |
Wow, a relatively kind review from the 'Fork. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/article/re cord_review/46014-magic Funny, though, how they feel compelled to spend the first few paragraphs making a tortured argument for why he's "indie." | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 941 Registered: 08-2006 |
And, natch, a five-star review from Rolling Stone I won't bother to post. Note that "The Very Best of Mick Jagger" gets a warm write-up in the same review set and move along. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1807 Registered: 05-2005 |
2182371%2C00.html,http://www.guardian.co .uk/commentisfree/story/0,,2182371,00.ht ml | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1550 Registered: 04-2005 |
"The Very Best of Mick Jagger"--funniest album title of the year. Is there anything lamer than a Mick Jagger solo album? Has anyone here ever bought one? I kinda doubt it. Everyone knows, of course, that Jann Wenner has certain pet artists that he requires be positively reviewed every time, Art Garfunkel and Mick Jagger being probably the two most notable and least deserving. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2330 Registered: 03-2006 |
Lol - it's the shortest CD of the year. That IS pretty funny... What's more, Jann and Mick are fairly tight friends...pretty sad, really. As much as I love the Stones, I don't they've ever gotten even a lukewarm review in RS... | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 942 Registered: 08-2006 |
Interestingly, they didn't have a star rating for the Jagger CD yet. Maybe the web designer's trying to figure out how to code for six stars. Can't have Bruce outshining Uncle Mick! I love the Stones - even a lot of their maligned recent stuff - but delving into Mick Jagger's solo career interests me as much as eating pancake batter. The texture sucks, the taste is off and it should spend more time over a high heat. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 266 Registered: 05-2005 |
LOL!! Poor Mick - He's not exactly wonderful as a solo performer.. He needs the rest of the band to be at his best. Had to laugh at the Pitchfork review. They might aswell have said "Kids, don't run away! Just because your dad or your boss likes it, doesn't make it uncool! Look, the guys from Itchyscrotum like him! Hey come back, he's cool, seriously!" (and no, itchyscrotum are NOT a real band!) | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 732 Registered: 09-2006 |
I remember back in 1980 Rolling Stone published a negative review of J. Geils Band's "Love Stinks," and then just one week later Wenner published a little column in the review section in which he said that the critic was WRONG - it wasn't a dissenting opinion, he quite clearly said that the other review was WRONG and Wenner was RIGHT. and that what it truly was was a great album. Not surprisingly he got a number of letters wondering what the hell he thought he was doing. I often wonder myself... | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2331 Registered: 03-2006 |
Makes you wonder: did Wenner get his journalism degree by writing in to one of those companies that advertise in the back of...Rolling Stone? Catherine, I'm disappointed that itchywhatsit's not a real band. You have a very demented imagination, my friend! I say that with admiration... | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2332 Registered: 03-2006 |
Yet one more rave : http://www.ocregister.com/entertainment/ bruce-springsteen-magic-1869624-album-re view Notice the slight attempt to be disparaging at the end, just so the reviewer can show he's not completely Bruce's bitch. Okay, Bruce, who you paying off? This is starting to smack of payola... | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1851 Registered: 05-2005 |
so, we're not posting about the numerous reviews that are of the opinion that the album is just average? | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 172 Registered: 01-2007 |
I've been listening to it on and off for 3 days, and i was a little disappointed to start with, there are the obvios great tracks, Girls in there summer clothers, living in the future, but it failed to light my flame, but like all good things it is sinking in and these ears like it, may not be up there with Darkness | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 733 Registered: 09-2006 |
OK, I guess I'll take the step (damn you, policy of total honesty): I actually bought one Mick Jagger record. "Wandering Spirit," generally considered to be the best of what I agree is a dire lot...the best because for whatever reason he ignored the impulse to "self-express" and instead made it sound a lot like a good Stones album. There's even a few lyrics where he's more honest (or maybe just less "ironic") about what an asshole he can be. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1551 Registered: 04-2005 |
We're going in circles here. In summary: Likes (sometimes with reservations) The Boss: Padraig, LK, Rob, Michael, Frank, David, Allen, Kurt Hates (or at least doesn't get) The Boss: Kev, Randy, Jeff, XY, Catherine Doesn't mind The Boss: Spence Didn't indicate: Stuart We're never going to agree and who fucking cares about what reviewers say--we can all think for ourselves, and already have. If anyone wants to use critics' opinions to validate his or her stance on Springsteen, consider this: "Magic" has a 78 so far on Metacritic. An album one anti-Bruce poster has touted a number of times on the board, Ryan Adams's "Easy Tiger," has a 76. And the loathsome, maids a-milkin' Richard Thompson's latest album has an 84. So the critics ain't really helping validate that person's tastes. But so what? Doesn't make him right or wrong. It only shows that arguing points based on reviews or critical averages can work for you or against you depending on how the information is used. Ultimately, it proves nothing. Let's take a gun to the temple of this thread and pull the trigger, please...if I haven't killed it with this diatribe, I don't know what will. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 943 Registered: 08-2006 |
Just to be clear, Kurt, reviews have zero impact on my opinion of Springsteen, nor do the opinions of anyone here (no offense). He's way beyond that for me. But I am interested in people's take on him, and I've enjoyed reading people's opinions, both pro and con. I didn't post the Pitchfork review to sway anyone's opinion; I couldn't care less whether anyone here buys the record, frankly, and Bruce doesn't need the money. I just think it's an interesting exchange, not a winner-take-all slugfest. For me and some other folks here, a new Springsteen record is kind of an occasion, so this here's where we talk about it. Dissenters are welcome. For them's who's not interested, well, there's lot o' threads here. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2333 Registered: 03-2006 |
Kev, I don't feel under any obligation to be "fair and balanced" - this ain't Faux News! I just saw that and grabbed it for all my homeys to enjoy, without honestly thinking about it - 'sides, I don't think the Bruce exactly needs me to shill for him... But c'mon Mista Kurt, can't we have another three or four hundred posts? Of course you're right, though, particularly about the "who gives a shit what critics think anyway?" idea - good summing up, though I might've misread Catherine, but she seems to me to be on-the-fence-ish... | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2334 Registered: 03-2006 |
Allen - in that spirit of honesty, there are some Mick solo tracks I enjoy - it's just that he's an easy target. What's that song called, "Don't Tear Me Up"? I think that's a great tune.... ps - Well put, Herr Brookman. | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 336 Registered: 01-2006 |
Kurt I don’t dislike/not get Springstein, I’m just not that interested really. Yeah he’s got some good tracks but I’ve never felt like going beyond the hits..... I can understand people being big fans and buying all releases, good or bad……I do the same with Neil Young. I have a tape of a NY live album, Restless I think, and he asks Brucee up to sing with him on the last track, Down By The River….half the crowd cheered and the other half booed…sums it up really… Because the Night with Patti Smith though is great, Patti’s version anyway as haven’t heard his. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1552 Registered: 04-2005 |
Great story about half the fans booing Bruce and half cheering him at the Neil show, XY. Are you sure they were booing and not going "Bruuu-ce!"? (Reminds me of the Simpsons exhange: Burns: "Are they booing me, Smithers?" Smithers: "No, sir, they're saying BOOO-URNS!") | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 1852 Registered: 05-2005 |
Case closed for me. Kurts nailed it. I am never going to like Bruce, LK and others love him, it doesnt alter the fact that I respect their views - they like too much other good music for me to diss them for having this temporary lowering of standards | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2335 Registered: 03-2006 |
Kevin, thank you...I think. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1808 Registered: 05-2005 |
I heard some clips from his new album todya, and I'm on board. I mean, I love/adore proper American guitar based rock, so its cool by me, I'll be buying it tomorrow. He looks knackered on the sleeve though, needs a good night's rest... | ||
| Stuart Wilson Member Username: Stuart Post Number: 94 Registered: 10-2006 |
And the good thing about all this pull and push type wrangling is that sometimes it actually convinces you to listen to something with a fresh ear and maybe open up a whole new artist's music to you. After all,I finally bought two - I mean, two - Fall records after reading about them again on the board - and one day I hope to summon up the courage to actually listen to them. Meanwhile, as for Bruce, and incidentally Elvis Costello, who I think got pulled into the debate somewhere, my problem with them is perhaps purely aesthetic - I don't enjoy listening to their voices. Elvis's has an edge to it that makes me grit my teeth and Bruce's gruff grunty holler, or, on the slow ones, hollery gruff grunt, tires me out exceedingly after a couple of verses. Otherwise I believe both to be fine, professional, literate songwriters and musicians who just maybe lack that benediction of the Divine spark that makes other artists truly memorable. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 267 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt, LK was closer to right, I never actually said I hated Bruce, or Magic. Waaaaaaaayyyyyyy back in the thread, I said I just didn't know if I liked or didn't. When things got a touch snippy around here, I decided to keep my new-found opinions to myself. But in the (self) interest of not getting wound up about being misrepresented, I'll admit it! I've discovered that I quite like Bruce Springsteen. There, I said it!! I didn't get to listen to every single song he ever wrote, but got a cross section everything from the beginning. I even skipped the ones I know (The River et al) to stop my old prejudices affect what I thought - and I quite liked what I heard. I still don't want to hear Baawwwrrrn every ten minutes, and can’t imagine ever wanting to. But Magic is actually a pretty good album. I’ll join in saying Girls in their Summer Clothes is a gorgeous song. I just think I’ll avoid listening to the radio for the next while, because I’m afraid I’ll end up hating Radio Nowhere if I hear it too much… | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 174 Registered: 01-2007 |
You know -Born in the USA to me is not a great song, I like what the song sets out to do but i just don't like listening to it.The live unplugged version is better but I'm bored with it. The other thing with the Magic is the mix it is full on wall of sound, I'd prefer some tension in the music and could be better with a less full on sound. I feel it was easy for Bruce to write this LP you get the feeling he could knock these songs out every few years and it would appease most of his fans.I like it but it is formulaic. e.g big sound --> instrumental break oh here comes clarence with the sax-god bless him! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 944 Registered: 08-2006 |
I agree, Frank. Much as I like the new album (and I do, LK, I do!) I'm not a huge fan of the production. I think sometimes it works brilliantly, but often it makes the E Street Band sound generic, overly compressed and big for bigness sake. The songs largely rise above it, but I hope down the road Springsteen has an epiphany that state-of-the-art production doesn't always suit over-the-hill rock stars. One thing I like about Dylan's recent records is he uses the production to highlight all the creaks and groans in his music, not to fuzz them out in layers of audio gauze. Crazy idea: Get Dylan to produce his next record. Crazier idea: Steve Albini. That said, I played "Magic" again last night whilst cooking dinner and - after a few days away from it - it sounded just terrific. The song order is well-chosen and Springsteen's vocals are as good as he's put on record in years. And the songs gain heft and definition with each play. Definitely a grower. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2337 Registered: 03-2006 |
Oooh, Kurt's gonna be pissed! He tole youse guys to lay off wit de Bruce talk! Seriously Rob, I don't care if you like it - to paraphrase Bobby Brown, it's your prerogative. You've established your bona fides as a Boss nut (that sounds terrible). The thing that pisses me off is people knee-jerk dismissing Bruce on the basis of the bumper sticker version of him, when he has so much more depth and complexity. Not all of his songs are about Jersey, and he occasionally sends the checked shirt to the cleaners (good thing, too - I bet it gets pretty gamey!). But if anyone listens to him, takes the time to listen to a representative sampling of his stuff, and decides it's not for them, then more power to them. For instance, Stuart's just not caring for the Boss' voice. I think that's completely fair. There are definitely artists that I know I'm supposed to like, but just don't care for the sound of their voice. Similarly, there are a lot of actors who bug me for different reasons. Judd Hirsch, for instance - I see his mug, I wanna throw my size 10 Puma at the TV screen... I also understand your point about the production, Rob, but disagree (I disagree, Rob, I disagree!). It seems to me big, over the top, kind of a modern day update of the Spectorian wall of sound. With this group of songs, you WANT it to be huge, monolithic - it's supposed to be music to floor your convertible to, as you speed down PCH (if you, you know, had a convertible). I'm not sure there are any rough edges to smooth down on this one - Bruce seems to be in full, honeythroated choirboy mode, like he's been soaking his vocal chords in medicated lotion. And God, I sure he hope doesn't ever try and court the Pitchfork crowd and get some uber-hip producer. That'd be ridiculous, like the cougar down the street getting a boob job, belly piercing and a tramp stamp. Bruce has his public, which he, God love him, cares about. He's like Hillary in that way - he wants to win the general election, not just suck up to MoveOn.org. So, Brucie wants to keep all the hordes that will buy his record happy, not confuse or scare them, as well as that growing contingent of indie hipsters who like him. See, that's one fortunate aspect of being a GBs fan: you don't have to share 'em with the yayhoos, like you do if you're into the Bruce. (I would gladly have traded that luxury, though, if it resulted in Robert and Grant getting mansions in the Bahamas.) So, who knows if the new one is a "classic"? Only time, really, will tell. But ultimately, I'm having a blast getting into it and rhapsodizing over it. And, having the official version with lyrics, etc., I can attest that there's a lot worth digging into - these songs, with the possible exception of "Radio Nowhere" (still a fun blast of guitar noise), have substance and gravitas. And, really, by the time it's designated a classic, suitable for hanging in some museum, the fun and excitement will be over. The fun, the life, the, er, magic, is in the now. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2339 Registered: 03-2006 |
Erm, that should be vocal "cords", not chords... Why the hell ain't it spelled that way, anyways...it's mo' musical! | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 269 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK, over this side of the atlantic, it's spelled chords!!! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2340 Registered: 03-2006 |
And Catherine, congratulations on "coming out". Have you told your parents yet? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1553 Registered: 04-2005 |
I'm pissed at YOU, LK. Who kept the thread going after my noxious post, which was the Internet equivalent of room-clearing flatulence? Seriously, this analysis of why we do/don't like him is interesting. It's the "he sucks!" style of critique that makes my brain hurt. Rob, Steve Albini engineering (remember, he's "not a producer") the next Bruce album is a great idea. Just because it's so perverse. Max Weinberg will get a drum sound he never before imagined possible. Or should we let Mr. Albini go nuts and replace him with a Big Black-style overdriven drum machine? I mentioned this to somebody else recently who initially thought me crazy and then had to admit he could hear it too, at least a bit: "Girls in Their Summer Clothes" reminds me just a little of Magnetic Fields, believe it or not: the acoustic guitars, the Merritt-y register, the reverb-y wall of sound, the melody, etc. I don't know if Bruce is a, um, closet Stephin Merritt fan--kind of doubt it--but it's a novel surprise. I'd pretty much lost interest in Bruce myself, but I like what I've heard from this album and plan to buy it. And I probably would have ignored it if not for this thread, so I guess my earlier post was premature. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 271 Registered: 05-2005 |
LOL!!! In fact DOWTOLRDMF!!! (Doubled-over with tears of laughter rolling down my face) I think they'll cope. They're pretty broad minded. My brother came out as a Bruce fan about 20 years ago. And they're aware I like a lot of different music, so it shouldn't come as too much of a shock. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 1815 Registered: 05-2005 |
guy i know saw nils playing kinda solo year berfore last i think, he said he fell asleep whilst standing up, it was such a painful experience!!!!!! | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1556 Registered: 04-2005 |
Who did, the guy or Nils? I bought a couple of Nils Lofgren solo albums years ago, and "sleep" was my reaction to them too. Great sideman, though. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 272 Registered: 05-2005 |
The only solo Nils I know is Shine Silently, and while it's a pretty song, sleep does come to mind when I hear it!!! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2341 Registered: 03-2006 |
Some people are born to be sidemen, and alas, I'm afraid poor Nils falls into that category. My theory is that Bruce keeps Nils (who's about 4'11") around to make him look taller! | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 274 Registered: 05-2005 |
So, based on that, if my calculations are correct, Clarence Clemons is about 5'4"? And I always thought he was HUGE!!! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2343 Registered: 03-2006 |
Exactly, CV. Btw, Forster is actually 5'6". | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 275 Registered: 05-2005 |
So that make me about 4'10". Now I'm completely confused!! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2345 Registered: 03-2006 |
You could date Nils. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 277 Registered: 05-2005 |
He'd have to wear lifts in his boots.. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 738 Registered: 09-2006 |
So Robert has actually kept that lanky frame for so longer in the interests of appearing taller? And here I go again...Lofgren's three 70s albums with Grin are very much worth the time - they sound like a lot of the music that gets praised around here. You couldn't quite call them solo albums because it was a band, but Nils wrote and sang all the songs. After that it was pretty much over for him artistically, though, so it's understandable that they're semi-forgotten. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 739 Registered: 09-2006 |
And cheers, Catherine, for taking this thread to the 100 mark... | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2346 Registered: 03-2006 |
Here's 103...Nils also played on my favorite Neil Young album, the one about the...goldrush, or somethin'...no small glory, that. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 947 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'd really recommend the Grin record "1+1." It's terrific. Few sidemen have done anything as good. But it's true his subsequent output hold about as much interest as Ronnie Wood's. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 278 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm 104 degrees with a head full of steam!!!!.... Nothing much to say at the minute, on Bruce, or Nils for that matter. Just wanted to nab post no. 104! | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 279 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ah Rob, you ruined it on me! Is Nils' stuff available to download? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 1557 Registered: 04-2005 |
"Goldrush" and "Tonight's the Night" (lots of lead guitar from li'l Nils on that one). That's a pretty impressive pair of NY albums for Lofgren to be involved with. And Nils wrote some songs with Lou Reed too. I don't think he ever worked with Dylan, but if he had, that would be a very impressive grand slam of collaboration with these American icons. Nils may be vertically challenged, but he's probably loaded and has had an interesting life. And if Forster was 5'6", Grant was what, 4'4"? | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 740 Registered: 09-2006 |
Catherine (and anyone else), if you can't find his stuff online there is this, which conveniently puts the two best albums on one CD. Slightly spendy, though... http://www.amazon.com/1%2B1-All-Out-Nils -Lofgren/dp/B000PKG62G/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/0 02-0587460-8020843?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1 191538707&sr=1-1 | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1758 Registered: 05-2005 |
Catherine: You've nailed your colours to the axis of evil mast - therefore, damned if you do, damned if you don't. I've loved Bruce for 23 or so years. Even when everyone else also loved him for 10 minutes in the mid-80s I knew I understood BS on a deeper level than they did. Nothing - not the Burmese junta, not nuclear war, nothing - annoys me more than euro-trash axis of evil folk suddenly pretending they've always loved Bruce (they just forgot to mention it, or buy any of his records). The House un-American Committee is on to you people. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1759 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yes, that was amazing that LK and I both posted the same link within a minute of each other. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1760 Registered: 05-2005 |
Speaking of small pop stars... Ash are tiny! The bass player always looks tall in photos, but he's about 5'8". He only looks big because the others are about 5'6" (singer) and 5'4" (drummer). I met them in Belfast after an award ceremony. They invited my ex up to their room, but not me. She didn't go. Obviously. Who'd leave a big hunk of man like me for shortarse pop poppets? | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 954 Registered: 08-2006 |
Hey, look! This thread can go on and on and on... http://www.billboard.com/bbcom/news/arti cle_display.jsp?vnu_content_id=100365344 0 (Cue sound of Kurt loading single bullet into pistol chamber.) | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2350 Registered: 03-2006 |
In the interest of driving Kurt, not to mention Randy and Kev, totally bat shit crazy, but mainly in the interest of fun, what are your favorite Bruce songs, Padraig, Rob, Frank, and anyone else I'm leaving out? Here're mine. I tried to avoid making it all ringers, but some songs are just too good to pass over. In no particular order: 1) Born to Run 2) Thunder Road (my favorite, I'm thinking) 3) Badlands 4) Bobby Jean 5) Sandy 6) Rosalita 7) Spirit In the Night 8) Jackson Cage 9) Atlantic City 10) Land of Hope and Dreams | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 955 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'm trying to avoid picking up the backyard (two dogs, hellish work week, rain last night - you do the math), so I'll bite. Where the hell do I start? This could change in five minutes. 1. Rosalita 2. Born to Run 3. Brilliant Disguise 4. Shut Out the Lights 5. Open All Night 6. Tunnel of Love 7. Ties That Bind 8. Reason to Believe 9. Dancing in the Dark 10. I'm Goin' Down | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1768 Registered: 05-2005 |
No order apart from No 1: Tunnel Of Love Candy's Room I'm On Fire Tenth Avenue Freeze Out (live in NYC version) The River (live box set version with long spoken intro) Born To Run Born In The USA (18 Tracks version) Matamoros Banks Radio Nowhere Waitin' On A Sunny Day As with Rob, the list is likely to change every time I'm asked. Apart from Tunnel Of Love, that would be a given. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 741 Registered: 09-2006 |
Padraig, is that the intro about him and his dad and the draft? That one always gives me a good-sized lump in my throat at the end. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 1772 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yes, that's the one Alan. It's enormously moving isn't it? | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 956 Registered: 08-2006 |
I gotta re-purchase that live box. I bought it when it came out, on vinyl, and have no idea what became of it. There are so many killer performances on there. That intro to "The River" is just amazing. As is his intro to "This Land Is Your Land." | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 281 Registered: 05-2005 |
Pádraig, I never pretended I always loved Brucie! Almost the reverse. Most of his stuff that got played on the radio over the years I found to be cliched - what was that word? - bloviated rawk. It was nice to discover there were a few more dimensions to him. I knew I should have kept my newly discovered state of quite liking Mr Springsteen to myself! Should I now check out Coldplay's back catalogue, just in case there's more to them than the most boring soulless MOR drivel? Or maybe Sigue Sigue Sputnik were really misunderstood poets?? I knew I'd be damned either way! Think I might as well embrace my position in the Axis of Evil. I'm off to buy a fluffy cat and a monocle!! | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 177 Registered: 01-2007 |
My 10 1.Thunder Road 2.Promised Land 3.Jungleland 4.Bobby Jean 5. Downbound Train 6. Drive all Night 7. the River 8. Born to Run 9. If i should Fall behind 10.Prove it all Night could go on | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 959 Registered: 08-2006 |
Anybody see Springsteen on 60 Minutes last night? I missed it. I'm hoping they'll post the complete interview online. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2354 Registered: 03-2006 |
Dang! I meant to watch that. I was at the beach - the weather gods (or global warming) generously provided a July day in October. Maybe some kind Bruce nerd will post it on YouTube. Catherine - you're not part of the Axis. Fight that label - it's a death trap and a suicide rap. Get out while you're young! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2358 Registered: 03-2006 |
Here's that 60 Minutes stuff on Bruce, neatly compiled for us by Yahoo, so you can see the Boss without having to watch all that boring, yucky news shit: http://60minutes.yahoo.com/segment/99/br uce_springsteen | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 965 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's always the same thing with me and Yahoo video, LK: the ad plays fine. Oh sure, they make sure I see Sam Waterson shilling for Ameritrade or whatever. Then the video fails to play. Nobody ever mentions this, but with the possible exception of YouTube, Web video just plain sucks. It's halting, buggy and annoying as hell. I thought 60 Minutes would be kind enough to post the whole segment online for the Tivo-less among us. Another reason to hope Dan Rather wins his lawsuit. BTW, YouTube on the iPhone is magic. No stops, no blips - it looks like a plasma flatscreen. How come my $2,000 iMac can't do the same? | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 2361 Registered: 03-2006 |
Oh, you have an iPhone? Just thought you'd slip that in? Just kidding, man. It's my jealousy, seeping out. When that woman asked me to take her picture using her iPhone, I should've hightailed it, just lammed it. It was a crowded place; I could've have easily gotten away with it, and I'd be the proud possessor of that happenin lil gizmo. I haven't played all of it, but it seemed to work fine for me, on my cheap ass Toshiba laptop. Looks like a lot of your classic, endearing Boss-type footage. Clarence Clemons' demeanor is seeming more and more like Redd Foxx's to me, though.... | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 984 Registered: 08-2006 |
Dunno if any of the Bruce fans on the board noticed this, but Pitchfork has video of the guest appearance by the Arcade Fire folks at Springsteen's show last night. I don't know if it's the guy who's doing the filming, but someone within close voice range of the camera goes bat-shit crazy when they come out, and especially when they play "Keep the Car Running." It's very funny. http://www.pitchforkmedia.com/page/forkc ast/46374-bruce-springsteen-and-the-e-st reet-band-with-win-butler-and-rgine-chas sagne-of-the-arcade-fire-state-trooper-k eep-the-car-running-live-in-ottawa |