| Author | Message | ||
     spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2431 Registered: 05-2005 |
Is this true? Folks in the US.? I must admit, he's the one for me. About time we had a black man in the white house. He better get the job. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1238 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, mathematically speaking, the numbers indicate that Obama's got it. But as of this moment, Clinton has not yet conceded. And it ain't over 'til Hillary starts singing. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1152 Registered: 08-2006 |
The question now is whether she'll demand the VP spot. She's got the delegate firepower to do it. I can't imagine why she'd want the job, though, so I'm a little confused by all these "she'd consider it" hints dropped by her campaign. My guess is, they're just using the threat of a VP power-play to wring everything they can from the Obama campaign and the Dem leadership before she concedes. But Obama's in the catbird seat. As an Illinoisan, that makes me damn proud. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1644 Registered: 03-2005 |
I actually wouldn't mind Hillary being Veep. That would preserve all the HRC voters who might otherwise just sit out the election. It would have the Democrats going for the White House with all of their available firepower. I don't think Obama is a weakling. He can keep Bill in line. In fact, Bill's pissed off so many people during this campaign I'm not sure how much of an impact he'd be able to make anymore. If a Supreme Court slot opens up, Obama should offer it to Hillary. I'm serious. She'd be fine in that role. And then he could choose whoever he wants for the balance of his term(s). One proviso, though: Hillary takes the first bite out of every dish Obama eats until she gets that Supreme Court gig. | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 834 Registered: 08-2004 |
So Obama's has won the right to finish 2nd in the presidential elections. As much as I'd like to See Obama as the chief. I can't see middle America turning out on his behalf. Rock The Vote, anyone? | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1174 Registered: 01-2005 |
Obama and his staff have to fiqure out which VP candidate will deliver more states to him that would otherwise go to McBush. The McCain that was a maverick in 2000 is no more, he had morphed into McBush as his recent voting record is 90 some percent lock step with Dubya. That will be the downfall of McBush as long as Obama and the DNC can make that point stick with Joe and Jane six-pack. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1239 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, I fear that race will be a larger hurdle for Obama than people realize. It seems like, when it comes down to it, there are a lot of people who get paranoid and kneejerk and maybe even racist once they're in the privacy of their voting booths. I believe there is a sizable chunk of Clinton supporters who went for her mainly on race, but who wouldn't necessarily admit that openly. McCain should be an easy target, but Obama is still going to need a very strong VP. It's hard for me to envision him wanting Hillary at this point, but they would make for an unbeatable pair. I think Edwards would be a good choice too, since he also seems to be liked among the "white, working class" demographic. If the Dems can't clinch it come November, I think that will permanently obliterate the concept of "hope." | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 183 Registered: 02-2008 |
If that cranky old bitch, by which I mean McCain, wins, Australia here I come! | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 450 Registered: 07-2006 |
and we'd only be too happy to have you ewan! | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 185 Registered: 02-2008 |
Thank ye kindly, sir. Now if I can just convince the Aus immigration folks that my services as a cheesemonger are needed! | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 452 Registered: 07-2006 |
sadly the cheesemonger gig has been filled. don't spose you fancy yourself as an apprentice fishwife? | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 169 Registered: 02-2007 |
Anyone know what actual percentage of citizenry actually voted in these primaries? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2008 |
Don't know what percentage of the population they represent, but about 35 million people voted. | ||
| Peter Collins Member Username: Tyroneshoelaces Post Number: 129 Registered: 05-2005 |
Notwithstanding that there'd be a certain rightness about a black man in the White House, not much of the coverage over here in the UK actually tells me what he stands for. It seems to be more about characters and about symbolism than anything else, which can't be that good. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 187 Registered: 02-2008 |
In all fairness, that, to me, has been the impression here, in the US, as well. I like him a lot, find him a very charismatic character and a tremendous orator, but, so far, a little light on the specifics, a little on the vague and platitudinous side. Here's hoping he fills in some of the details, colors inside the lines, in the months to come. Because, Lord, we sure need a change. It's time for all of us villagers to pick up our pitchforks and torches and run the demons out of town! Don't get me wrong - I'm definitely voting for Obama. I do like him a lot, though hell, I'd vote for a red-arsed baboon before I'd vote for old Grandpa Munster. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2435 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'd vote for a red-arsed baboon before I'd vote for old Grandpa Munster. That line is worth a million dollars, nuff said!! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1244 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, if you watch the debates, you do get more insight into specifics. For starters, Obama has stated a desire to actually communicate with Iran, while Hillary said she would "obliterate them" (should they seek to attack Israel). | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 188 Registered: 02-2008 |
I've actchually watched every minute of every debate, Mista Jeff. I still think he's light on specifics. And those details you mention have only emerged in the last few days. Still seems vague to me, and apart from wanting to sit down with Iran, though, there's been no real plan for, say, what he would do to help the economy. Hill's rather inartful response was to the question of what she would do if Iran attacked Israel with a nuke. Inartful, but an answer O will have to parrot in some way if he wants to court the Jewish vote. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 450 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ewan, you've obviously not seen any photographs of the recently appointed Irish Prime Minister? Clearly some people here in Ireland felt that they had a similar choice to make. A face only an Irish Mammy could love! http://www.taoiseach.gov.ie/ | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 189 Registered: 02-2008 |
Good Lord! See what ya mean. Btw, I saw some news footage about the big row they had in London over banning alcohol on the tube (I found it shocking that it had ever been allowed) and they showed the mayor, Boris. What's the deal with that guy? Would it KILL him to comb his hair? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2438 Registered: 05-2005 |
LK, leave Boris alone, the man has humour and a great mop to boot!!!!  Better than the dreary old dirt mac that was mr redken. what a useless ****. | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 451 Registered: 05-2005 |
He's sulking because L'oreal told him he's not worth it after all. | ||
| Peter Collins Member Username: Tyroneshoelaces Post Number: 132 Registered: 05-2005 |
Boris is a typical tory hiding in liberal clothes. Do we really want to be ruled by Old Etonians now? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 191 Registered: 02-2008 |
Fair enough...he got some pretty rude treatment from that crowd at the tube - they showed some folks in a samba line, chanting "Boris is a w*nker". | ||
| Peter Collins Member Username: Tyroneshoelaces Post Number: 134 Registered: 05-2005 |
Personally, I find people listening to their ****ing iPods too loud on the tube (and it's always rubbish music) more disturbing than drinking. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1245 Registered: 10-2004 |
I've watched the debates too, Ewan, and I disagree. On some points, Hillary actually gave more specifics than Obama, eg - health care. However, the media ignores details and focuses on things like Obama's pastor or Hillary's lie about being under snyper fire. The Iran thing was actually a few weeks ago, and I pray Obama doesn't parrot Hillary's Bush-like response. It was kind of a stupid question to begin with, but Hillary's kneejerk response was unsettling nonetheless. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 192 Registered: 02-2008 |
Like I said, it was an inartful way to put it, but I think the gist of it, that a massive, crushing show of force would be required in response would be called for is the only sane, rational one. Mind you, we're talking about them using a NUKE, not taking potshots at a battleship. I'm all for talking to our enemies (with a goal in mind and appropriate pre-conditions, etc.), and against saber-rattling, but methinks it might be a little late for diplomacy at that point. Obama already has problems with Jewish voters and if asked the same question, while he should avoid the word "obliterate", he should definitely respond unequivocally in like fashion to Hillary's basic message. Anything else will leave him open to being painted as weak, ineffectual and naive, which you know they're already trying to do. If Obama has revealed any detailed plans about anything, I missed that part, didn't get the memo! Perhaps I was taking a piss when he revealed his 10 point plan to fix the economy. I do agree with you about the woeful media circus the whole thing has been. The Bosnia sniper thing, the Rev. Wright thing. What cracks me up is that they'll often preface the story with a proviso about how awful it is that that media is covering such trivia. They are a bunch of lying, yapping dogs from hell and I break wind in their general direction! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1246 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, as for the Iran thing - I thought it was a silly question in the first place, because what is the likelihood of that happening? Sure, Iran is hostile to Israel, but they know Israel has got the US in its pocket, and that the US has the capability to respond in kind. But I think part of Obama's point is to open up dialog in an attempt to prevent escalating hostilities and possible use (and production) of nukes. Maybe said dialog really wouldn't work, but at least it's an approach the hawks wouldn't even consider. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1646 Registered: 03-2005 |
OK, I am really sick of this "Obama never gives specifics" meme. It's gotta go. It's a Clinton and a Republican talking point. It's also devoid of truth, just the Big Lie repeated over and over until people assume that it must be true. Obama on the economy: ttp://www.barackobama.com/issues/economy/ http://obama.3cdn.net/8f478c5e1bb07ca0b1 _sh1umv2zy.pdf These are both from Obama's own campaign website and easily found with a Google search. Obama on health care: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/health care/ Obama on foreign policy: http://www.barackobama.com/issues/foreig npolicy/ Yes, his own website will couch everything in fluffy rhetoric BUT each page has a pretty good string of specifics, certainly as much as you can expect of any candidate during a campaign. The debates will never provide any information. The questions are either incompetent or designed to embarrass the candidates and no candidate is ever given time to provide a substantive meaningful answer. The debates are just volleys of sound bytes. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1247 Registered: 10-2004 |
Thanks, Randy. I forgot just how much info there is on Obama's campaign website. I guess the answer to Peter Collins' question is that you're not likely to get specifics of either candidate from simply relying on most media outlets. And yup - the media/Clinton/McCain spin that Obama can deliver a good speech but has no outlined plan, is just not true. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 193 Registered: 02-2008 |
OF COURSE they're both gonna have specifics on their websites. I thought the discussion was about how good a job O has done communicating specifics to the public at large (with his own breath). And that point is highly debatable. I know it probably comes as a shock, but not every swingin' dick out there is going to read candidates' websites in depth. I'm for Obama, completely. I just think he's going to have to get out of the ether and get all populist on every body's asses. Wait, he doesn't HAVE to, he only has to if he actually wants to win the election. Get out of the classroom and put it in terms Joe Sixpack will get and appreciate. Whether or not you want to dispute it, there are big problems for him with big chunks of middle America. Sooner or later, and not just on his website, he's going to really have to start getting down to brass tacks and come up with some specifics and details and relate them to the man on the street's problems. Just endlessly repeating "that's the old politics" or calling any opposing views Repub or Clinton talking points ain't gonna cut it. IMHO. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 194 Registered: 02-2008 |
On the plus side, and this may not necessarily win him the election, he's demonstrated a real penchant for surrounding himself with great people. Look at his campaign. So, if elected, I think he'll probably do a pretty great job governing. Once again, imho. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1154 Registered: 08-2006 |
You're not alone in your opinion, ETE. Apparently, Barack's got Dylan's vote: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/wo rld/europe/article4076339.ece | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 196 Registered: 02-2008 |
Wow, that is impressive. O really has the rock star vote. He should go for the troika, now. He's got the Boss' and Zimmy's endorsements, now all he needs is Forstie's... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 283 Registered: 02-2008 |
I'm hoping that Obama ends up pulling it off, but this is a worrisome development: http://www.theonion.com/content/news/oba mas_hillbilly_half_brother | ||
| Catherine Vaughan Member Username: Catherine Post Number: 467 Registered: 05-2005 |
He won the Left Hander of the Year award, today, so he's on the home stretch!! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2566 Registered: 05-2005 |
I don't think Obama matters anymore as its all going to go off and the world will atomize by the look of what Robert Gates has to say to Russia about Georgia | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 183 Registered: 02-2007 |
Who should be Obama'a running mate? Any one have a preference? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2235 Registered: 05-2005 |
Michael Moore has asked Caroline Kennedy to do so. Google it. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1204 Registered: 08-2006 |
I don't know that I have a fave, David. Seems like a lot of the names that have been floated are all solid citizens. IMO, I don't know that Obama needs a lot of help, he needs someone who won't hurt. Even though I'm hearing a lot of talk about Biden, he's got some baggage and a loooooong voting history in the Senate, which can't be helpful. I could see someone like Evan Bayh or Kathleen Sebelius. Personally, I'd go with Wesley Clark, who I haven't seen mentioned at all. Great guy, low key, smart as all hell and his military credentials are unimpeachable. But Obama might surprise everyone and pick someone unexpected. He doesn't need another rock star, that's for sure. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 298 Registered: 02-2008 |
I've inputted all of the available data into the Ewanometer and come up with the following results: Will be: Joe Biden. Nothing wrong with him as a choice. Hail fellow well met, knows his foreign policy cold and will be completely uninhibited about throwing down with McCain. The veep needs to be an attack dog and that's something Biden can do without breaking a sweat. Supremely likable, as well. However, this thing is waaaay closer than it should be; in fact, state-by-state polls this week for the first time showed that McCain would actually win in terms of electoral votes. Obama, frankly, is going to need help. Which is why I think his veep choice... Should be: Hillary. The only choice that will actually bring him some votes, which at this point, he needs. Don't buy all the squawkin' about how nothing would energize the Republican base like Hill. Are you kidding me? They're ALREADY energized - at the prospect of having what they think is a Muslim, 'Merica-hatin', peacenik lefty become president. Sadly, I think he's left it too late, though. Apparently, Hillary has not been vetted, though you could argue that she's such a known quantity at this point, she doesn't need to be. And, if it's not one of those two, if it's some boring-ass old white guy, then God help us all! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1205 Registered: 08-2006 |
Okay, I stand corrected. Biden it is. Nothing wrong with that, I guess. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1236 Registered: 01-2005 |
Biden being Obama's pick or McCain not remembering how many homes he owns, what is the bigger story? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1711 Registered: 03-2005 |
The choice of Biden is Obama's first huge misstep. This is very sad for me. I've been a big Obama fan from the get-go. But he just made the most jaw-droppingly uninspired choice for VP possible. He chose a tired Democratic hack who manages to put his foot in his mouth every week. Maybe it's true and Obama IS "all hat and no cattle." I agree with ETM. It should have been Hillary as VP. Bill could have been made ambassador to the U.N. or something else like that to get him out of the way. Wes Clark also would have been much better. Obama just threw away a historic opportunity. I will still vote for him of course, but many others will not and he will lose. And it will be his own fault. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1712 Registered: 03-2005 |
Looking back at ETM's comments on Biden, I sure hope he's right. I fear otherwise though. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2243 Registered: 05-2005 |
I have to disagree with you lads. Picking Hillary would have been a bad idea. Too much ammunition of the "That's not what she said about him six months ago" variety. Biden was a good choice. Anyone who chooses not to vote for Obama based on who his VP pick is needs their head examined. It's not like he picked David Duke as his running partner. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 299 Registered: 02-2008 |
Actually, Biden had talked all kinds of shit about Obama, as well, which is already turning up in ads by the Repubs. No, I think Sir Randy was spot-on. It's not that Biden is a BAD choice, he's just an uninspired one. And, I don't think anyone is going to choose not to vote for Obama based on his veep choice. The problem, however, is that he's not going to pick up any votes, either, based on the choice. Which he desperately needs at this point - things are way tighter than they should be, given things like Bush's approval ratings and the right track/wrong track numbers. On the other hand, Hillary would've brought in votes he's not gonna get otherwise. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1714 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ok, I just read an LA Times Op Ed piece approving Obama's choice of Biden. I hope they're right, as well as you Padraig and also ETM as to Biden's attributes. My problem is that I have indelible memories of him blowing it from time to time with his yapping. And I guess I fell under the spell of my own Obama worship too much so as to expect him to amaze me at every step. And I can definitely see your point Padraig about "That's not what she said about him six months ago." But, sadly, I've been reading over and over about Clinton supporters who are so bitter that they will sit on their hands through this election rather than vote for the person they view as an interloper. I just finished reading a lengthy article in Mother Jones about the infighting in Clinton's campaign. The writer was given copies of a mass of internal e-mails, an eye-popping breach of professionalism by the people who released them. These people--including Bill--were very undisciplined and Hillary did not take control of the situation at any time. She had far too many chiefs in that operation. If she could not control her top-level advisers and consultants in the campaign, you can be quite certain her administration would have been a similar disaster. We dodged a bullet when she lost. I'm serious. There is genuine relevance in how a candidate's campaign runs to that candidate's merits as an executive. Hillary is a super smart person but she is not an executive. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1237 Registered: 01-2005 |
Biden should help deliver Pennsylvania, he is from Scranton. He will dominate the VP debate over Romney. As long as he sticks to the game plan, I think it's a good pick. The baffling thing that has me wondering is, why would any Hillary supporter vote for John McCain? He has voted 95% with Bush and will follow Bush's economic plan to a T. He is a sabre rattling war hawk. He is far from being the maverick that he was 8 years ago. We don't need four years of John McSame. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2245 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'd forgotten what Biden said about Obama. I thought it was stupid at the time and still do, but I accept he did not intend it to be a racist remark in any way. Working class midwest votes is what Biden will bring to the table. (Yes, that's a reference to the part of his speech about having the same kitchen table as the average American but how McCain would have to decide which of his seven kitchen tables he'd sit at. Mr Biden is good at getting a swift kick in!). | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 301 Registered: 02-2008 |
Your mouth to God's ear. But, I don't think it works that way, don't think comments in a speech by a veep candidate will necessarily spur voters in large numbers to vote. Huge chunks of that part of the country are staunchly conservative and are going to dumbly buy into the idea that a Democrat is just going to raise their taxes. They don't particularly know who Biden is and he ain't gonna convince them. I like Biden, a lot, though, and think, short of Hillary, he's about the best pick out there. He will, as they say, do no harm. (He has said other things about Obama that the demonic Repubs are trotting out, that Obama wasn't qualified to be prez, etc.) I don't really buy, anyway, into the idea that a VP will make a difference, but think Hillary is an exception. She, in essence, brings some big chunk of her 18 million votes with her. I think people, notably the Obama campaign, are underestimating the Hillary effect. There is a vast groundswell of folks who were for Hillary, but are either going to vote for McCain or just not bother voting at all. Never mind the logic, or lack thereof, it's there; it's a fact. I think it's just one of those things based on emotion that completely bypasses the rational processes. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1349 Registered: 10-2004 |
I've been camping up north in the lovely redwoods of northern Mendocino county, completely removed from society for the past week, so I've just come home to the news about Biden. I agree with most of what's been said above about Biden, more or less. Not a bad choice, per se, just an uninspiring one, and not one that I think will bring many undecided fence-straddling voters to Obama. I think he falls in line with Obama's increasing and seemingly calculated shift to the center as November draws nearer. He's playing it safe. I have mixed feelings about Clinton as the VP choice. On one hand, choosing her would have undoubtedly hammered the last nail in McCain's coffin. Obama/Clinton would have been unbeatable. On the other hand, I can see why Obama's camp might have been a bit leery of her. Furthermore, it's sad to contemplate just how true ETM's sentence is about middle of the road Hillary supporters voting for McCain or sitting this one out: "I think it's just one of those things based on emotion that completely bypasses the rational processes." | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2252 Registered: 05-2005 |
The more I hear about people "sitting this one out" the more I like Australia's compulsory voting law. It was never going to be Hillary. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1715 Registered: 03-2005 |
The compulsory voting law fascinates me. Michelle just knocked the ball out of the park. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2255 Registered: 05-2005 |
By the way, today is the 88th anniversary of US women being granted the right to vote. On August 26, 1920, the 19th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution, guaranteeing women the right to vote, was declared in effect. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1207 Registered: 08-2006 |
Michelle Obama is one impressive presence, isn't she? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 303 Registered: 02-2008 |
Didn't see her speech but saw footage of the kids talking to Obama's face on the jumbo jumbotron. Jesus, they're adorable. Every time they appear O gets automatic votes! | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1238 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hillary wasn't even vetted by Caroline Kennedy and the rest of Obama's VP team, so Padraig is correct in stating that it was never going to be Hillary. She has a good shot to be nominated by Obama to the US Supreme Court as soon as next year when either/both liberal judges John Paul Stevens (88) or/and Ruth Bader Ginsberg (75) retire. They both are hanging on for another 21 weeks until Bush is out of office. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 306 Registered: 02-2008 |
The other side of that argument was that, she's such a known quantity, how much did she really need to be vetted? And perhaps inside in the Obama camp they never seriously considered her, which I actually believe, nobody outside the camp really knew until the news leaked out the night before. Everything else is sheer conjecture. Also, it is, once again, a highly charged, emotional issue for some of the die-hard Hillary fans, who I'm sure, hoped against hope that she'd be the veep choice. Though I was for Hillary to begin with, I'm absolutely voting for Barack. But, I completely stand by people's right not to vote for him or to vote for McCain, if they want. It's still (almost) a free country. We still have a real democracy (at least in theory), not one a them compulsory ones. I still think Hillary would've been a much better veep choice. It is going to be sooooo tight and O needs every vote he can get. And there are a currently a whole host of really worrisome issues for Obama to deal with: Catholics, women, etc., hell, less than 80% of DEMOCRATS are for him. Kerry had 89%. Mr. Obama needs to get down in the trenches and start scrappin', feckin' shit up! | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1240 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hillary would bring more votes to the table then Biden will initially, so it's up to Barack and Biden to hit the pavement with sweeping plans on what they inend to do about the economy, the Middle East, a new energy policy, global warming, social security etc. They also must go on the offensive and tie McSame with Bush. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 308 Registered: 02-2008 |
I believe you're right, sir. I hope we see that happening soon. The "not knowing how many houses he has" thing will hopefully be great grist for the mill. Can't believe this whole shindig'll be over in 70 days... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1350 Registered: 10-2004 |
Going on ETM's statement about standing by Hillary supporters' right to not vote for Obama, or to vote for McCain - sure, it's truly wonderful they have a right to vote for whomever they want. But I wish those people realized that their stubbornly unflagging love of HIllary could result in my friend's 15 year old son spilling his blood on Iranian soil. I mean, clinging to Hillary *will* have disastrous effects, there's no two ways about it. IMHO, Hillary has done some mighty unsavory things over the past several years, but I always knew that if she nabbed the nomination, I would've voted for her on election day, despite all her hawkish flaws. And I know an awful lot of Obama supporters who would've done the same. But again, ETM's statement above about voting on emotion in a way that "completely bypasses the rational processes" is something that is very real and very scary. It's partly why W got 2 terms, and it could very well help McCain win this year. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 309 Registered: 02-2008 |
Don't get me wrong, I think it'll be tragic if McSame wins. It's just that I don't think it's productive to excoriate the "Hillary Harridans" too much. Obama bears some responsibility, too. The Hillary faction apparently doesn't feel she or her supporters have been treated with appropriate respect and I think the "feck 'em, they have to vote for Obama it's the logical thing to do" attitude has a lot to do with that. It's his job, I think, to bridge the gap, to bring them along, as it were. He is supposed to be the great unifier, above divisive politics, etc. He has, by all accounts, done a pretty abysmal job bringing them into the fold. Because this shit is too scary to feck around with, I want him to be doing everything within his power to win. Thing is, I'm not sure he has. Consistent polling has shown that something like 50% of the Hillary people are not going to vote for him. That's 8-9 million votes left on the table. At this point, Mr. Bachman's strategy seems the best thing that can be done. From now on, it's a brawl - O and Biden really have go after Bush/McCain in an aggressive fashion not seen up to this point... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 310 Registered: 02-2008 |
Have to vent about something, though it's probably not cricket. McCain and the POW thing. All due respect to him, but he's waaay overusing it. I bet, now, that if he farts at the dinner table and his wife complains, he says, "for 5 years I was in a place where no flatulence was allowed". Little things like that, his cheapening of things that formerly actually meant something, still give me hope... | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 186 Registered: 02-2007 |
Forgive me if this is way out of line, but I think The US has one last chance to refashion its place in the world, or really its the end of the American Century. Thats how important this vote is. The rest of the world will simply move on. Hilary's arrogance is unbelievable. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1208 Registered: 08-2006 |
I don't know if you're referring to her convention speech last night, David, but I thought it was terrific address. She's earned the right to toot her own horn in front of the Dems (which she did, natch), but I thought her praise for Obama and needling of McCain were both deftly delivered. I just wish some of her more stubborn supporters would get some counseling and come back to join us in reality. It gets back to your first point, David: We don't right this ship fast and we're gonna run aground permanently. Voting for McCain because - boo freakin' hoo - you didn't get what you wanted from the primary process isn't just childish. It's damaging. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1718 Registered: 03-2005 |
It's not out of line, David. It's the truth. If McCain is elected we will all have learned a very ugly fact which is that the American people richly deserve their fate. Too many of the citizens of this country are terminally insular. That is the only explanation for anyone voting for John McCain. My personal 4:00 A.M. fear? That we saw the truth in 2004. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 315 Registered: 02-2008 |
I thought Hill's speech was a scorcher, a barnburner, a homerun that went over the wall and into the building across the street - she really tore the roof off the dump. Will it be enough to unite the party and bring all the disgruntled into the fold? Who knows. Here's hoping Bubba and O deliver similarly blistering oratory when they have their turns. In retrospect, the first night of the convention was pretty dull and probably didn't move the needle much. Someone needs to start ripping McCain a new arsehole! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1209 Registered: 08-2006 |
Did you see Kucinich's speech, ETM? Or how 'bout the bolo-wearing guv of Montana - what's his name, Schweitzer? - exhorting everyone to stand up state-by-state. Pretty good stuff. I bet Bubba gets 'em going tonight. One of the all-time greats when it comes to this stuff. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 317 Registered: 02-2008 |
No, I missed them, but I heard they were pretty great. Being a sad, addicted political junkie, I have to very strictly ration myself. Otherwise, and I'm serious about this, I would probably literally do nothing else, even listen to music. Guess it's the times we live in, mainly the feckin' nightmare and embarrassment that has been the Bush administration. Most of my friends and family are similarly obsessed. I do have serious TV time and a big bottle of Absolut reserved for the Biden, Bubba and Barack speeches. And yeah, Bubba's speech should really be something. Word has it that he and Hill have a competitive relationship when it comes to politics, and he's going to feel compelled to try and best her with his speech. Good luck with that one, buddy! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1720 Registered: 03-2005 |
I was entirely satisfied with Hillary's speech. But Bill's went so far beyond anything I expected. He demonstrated his very best and why he won twice. And, yes, Biden made a great case for their ticket. He is certainly a much better speaker than either Gore or Kerry. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 318 Registered: 02-2008 |
Biden has a certain real-guy, salt of the earth cred that completely sells it for me, even if it wasn't as masterful and thematically pure a speech as Bubba's. Overall, quite a moving and inspiring night. I have to confess that I was sort of weeping like a little girl during the film about Biden and, also, Beau Biden's speech. Quite a touching story the guy has...I'm not sure, but I may have busted a tear duct. I think they're designed to handle only so much volume. It may just be a contact high, standard convention buzz, but for the first time in a while I feel pretty hopeful and inspired about the whole deal. Maybe the good guys'll win this time. Crazier things have happened... | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2261 Registered: 05-2005 |
What I saw of both Clintons' speeches were marvellous. Both homered. I did not see Biden's. Looking forward to Obama's. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1244 Registered: 01-2005 |
That turncoat Joe Liebermann who will be speaking at the GOP convention next week and edorsing McSame needs to be bounced from his postion as Democratic chairman of the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee. The Dems should pick up 6 and perhaps more US Senate seats in November, so Joe better be bounced from being chairman soon after. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 319 Registered: 02-2008 |
It sounds like there's a fighting chance Grumpy Gramps will pick Lieberman as his running mate. Talk about turncoats, if he accepts! I feckin' hate Lieberman, man, it must be said. To call him a weasel is to unfairly denigrate those cute, lil furry creatures! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1353 Registered: 10-2004 |
Lieberman needs to be skinned alive and brined in urine. I really don't like that guy. Great speeches all around the past few nights. Nice to hear the Clintons so emphatic about the need to vote for Obama. I think they, more than anyone, will be the ones to have the most impact on those still on the fence. And yes, I haven't really heard Biden speak, and I will give him that he's way more at ease than Gore or Kerry. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1354 Registered: 10-2004 |
I meant to say, "I haven't really heard Biden speak *until last night*." | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1210 Registered: 08-2006 |
Finally saw Biden's speech online at lunchtime. Wow. He's certainly not a Clinton or Obama-style orator but that speech was pitch-perfect for his style of delivery. Very nicely done. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 320 Registered: 02-2008 |
Speaking of people who need to be "brined in urine" (nice one - not sure I've ever heard that one before, but it sounds like something Lieberman just inherently needs to have done to him), I, unfortunately, managed to catch Melissa Etheridge's performance at the convention, during CNN's coverage. My ears may never be the same - they were effectively subjected to the aural equivalent of being sodomized by a gang of feral monkeys. She did her medley, and I'm not making this up, of God Bless America, Give Peace a Chance, The Times They Are a Changing, and Born in the USA (of which her version just consisted of her intoning the chorus over and over, departing from that only once to point out that she was a "cool rockin' mama"). It was, as they say, subtle as flying mallet. God bless her, but I'm sure she cost Obama some votes with that one! | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1245 Registered: 01-2005 |
Give Libermann some whacky drug that would make eat non-kosher bacon, sausage and ham in front of his masters in the Kennessit. Maybe then they would throw him to the nearest Taliban outpost. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 321 Registered: 02-2008 |
Let him eat pig! They just showed Sheryl Crow perform - achee wa wa. Why can't she be be veep? Much easier on the eyes than ol' Joe... | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1146 Registered: 09-2006 |
Actually I think Lieberman would enjoy that fate far too much. Perhaps he should be subjected to the same magical spell that befell the Jim Carrey character in Liar Liar. Geez, imagine if every politician were subjected to that spell...the culture might undergo truly seismic upheaval. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 322 Registered: 02-2008 |
One of my favorite trashy movies is a little gem, from the '70s, I think, called, "The Warriors", about rival street gangs in NYC. In a pivotal moment, one of the characters utters the immortal line, "Warriors, come out to play", while menacingly brandishing a baseball bat. Well, in Obama's terrific speech tonight, he effectively expressed the same sentiment to McCain - he truly called him out, dared him to account for all of the failed policies he supports and all of the damage wrought by the Bushies. "McCain, come out to play"...I think it was exactly what was needed. Really really powerful stuff and, I guess only time'll tell, but it sure had the look and feel of history in the making...oh, to have been there. Other encouraging news: the rumor mill has it that McCain's veep pick is going to be Pawlenty. Are you feckin' kidding me? Not that veep choices matter all that much, but this guy is a heavy-duty non-entity - he's a tool, a zero, a nobody... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1355 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, as it turns out, McCain has chosen Alaskan governor Sarah Palin: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25970882/?GT 1=43001 Frankly, I didn't see that one coming. Honestly, I thought it would be Pawlenty. I'm going to have to read up some more on Palin, I don't know much about her except that she's anti-abortion, pro-capital punishment, and was apparently under investigation for having an ex-brother-in-law fired from his job as a state-trooper. Don't know much else, except that she's younger than Obama, at 44. This seems like a desperate bid to rope in any of those fence-straddling disgruntled female Hillary supporters, of which I hope there are fewer left after this week's convention. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 323 Registered: 02-2008 |
Seems pretty knee-jerk and desperate to me (noooo, not John McCain!), but apparently they think she's going to excite, at least parts of, the base, being a big ole mooseburger-eatin', gun-nut, pro-lifer. But Jesus, she's been governor of Alaska for a year and a half. They really think she's going to be able to debate foreign policy with Joe Biden and his 36 years of experience with it? Or, if McCain steps on a rainbow (Kinky Friedman's expression for going to meet Jesus) that she can step in and become commander and chief? Seems highly dubious... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1356 Registered: 10-2004 |
The more I think about it, and the more I read about her, Palin really does seem like a strange and desperate choice. She's extremely inexperienced with her mere 1 1/2 years of being governor, and Alaska's a state with a tiny population, at that. Not to mention she's rabidly anti-abortion and I think I saw somewhere that she sits heavily on the creationism side of the creationism vs. evolution debate, which is *not* a hot issue right now. A piece on her in the Daily Kos may have been playing up the scandal she's involved in (over firing her sister's ex-husband from his state-trooper position) more than it may be worth, but still, she doesn't strike me as a hot choice. However, she is young, supposedly energetic, and probably doesn't forget shit mid-sentence like the aging John McCain. At the very least, choosing Palin makes for an even more *interesting* election season. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 324 Registered: 02-2008 |
She looks like Peggy Hill, from King of the Hill...can't decide if that's a plus or minus. Guess it depends on your stance on propane! | ||
| TROU Member Username: Trou Post Number: 158 Registered: 05-2005 |
Palin, she promotes the areal gunning of hundred of wolves in Alaska… She’s renowed all over the world for this disgrace. Give her enough rope. Vote Obama! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2263 Registered: 05-2005 |
Wow, she really does look a bit Peggy Hill-ish. That's Texas sown up for the Republicans then... ETM, I misread what you wrote earlier as saying Melissa Etheridge was "subtle as flying mullet". I assumed it meant Ms Etheridge was now rockin' a mullet cut. It didn't seem unlikely. I thought that was a nice turn of phrase. Up there with Jeff's wish for Lieberman. TROU, it's very French of you (and I mean that in a very good way) to know that Palin is responsible for wolficide on a grand scale. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1217 Registered: 08-2006 |
Watched Palin's speech last night, and I couldn't help but think the McCain camp miscalculated this one. It WAS a pretty good speech (falsehoods, distortions and outright lies aside), but I think she might have been a bit too eager and overreaching in calling out Obama/Biden. Before last night, there was much hand-wringing about how Biden would handle her, whether his rapier wit and sharp tongue would make him look like a bully. Palin basically invited, nay begged, him to take the gloves off last night. If I were Biden, that's a fight I'd be happy to join. Let the fireworks begin! | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 332 Registered: 02-2008 |
Palin's speech was great, even if light on substance and actual truth. Let's face it, the woman's a rock star. I think it's cause for the Obama camp to be worried - here's hoping they let Biden out of the rusty cage where they keep him (can't you picture just picture it - him in there snarling, being fed scraps of raw meat?) and let him tear her a new one. They need to hit back - hard and soon. I can't help but think they, the Republiscum, are making a larger tactical error, though. She represents a hard tack to the right. Supposedly, the Republican brand, mainly the hard right version of it, is past its sell-by date and all of the action is in the middle, with the independent voter. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 334 Registered: 02-2008 |
Also - does anybody even give a rat's arse about McCain anymore, even the Republitards? Won't his speech seem rather anti-climatic and anemic by comparison? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 336 Registered: 02-2008 |
I guess he could always talk about his time as a POW. He hasn't talked about THAT much... | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1252 Registered: 01-2005 |
Sarah Palin reminds me of the Tracy Flick character from the movie Election. I give her three more weeks before she is broomed due to accumulating skeletons in her past. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 339 Registered: 02-2008 |
Good thought. There are a LOT of skeletons lined up in there, to be sure. Also, a lot of the shit she takes credit for just ain't true. For instance, she was originally FOR the Bridge to Nowhere, she's gobbled up all kinds of earmarks for her state, and get this - and some are saying taxes have actually gone UP in Alaska during her tenure. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1218 Registered: 08-2006 |
The build-up to McCain's speech tonight is kind of like waiting for your crazy Uncle Harold to say his rambling, disjointed version of grace after your mom has just laid a kick-ass Thanksgiving dinner on the table. As far as Palin's speech, I thought she delivered it well, but I think it's gonna play as shrill (and I'm not referring to quality of her voice here) to a lot of people. She's a very good speechifier, but I found her condescending, angry and little bit of a schoolyard name caller. She was certainly better than a lot of people expected, but get her in a room with a veteran Senator with a vast knowledge of actual policy and an ability to throw zingers like thunderbolts and I think last night will come across like the light little piece of stagecraft it was. By the way, why do I keep hearing people on NPR (and Ms. Palin herself for that matter) praising McCain for his substance and damning Obama for a lack of it? From what I've seen of the convention, the only idea the Republicans have is that they don't want the Democrats to win. Oh, and that we should could keep the tax cuts. And that the troops don't suck. Obama's speech looks like a think-tank policy paper by comparison. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 340 Registered: 02-2008 |
I hope you're right and that her speech plays like the proverbial turd in the punchbowl amongst sensible, independent voters. Not sure though - people, mainly Republicans, are drawn to people talking shit, it's what pokes through into people's awareness. Way easier to grasp a simplistic jab than think about the issues. Kind of a frustrating thing about human nature, that the negative plays so well. Even on this board, is there anything more popular than the threads slagging different bands? It's almost like all this talk of hope, change, etc., scares people - better to be on the safe ground of negativity and criticism. David Axelrod, Obama's big campaign poobah, always one with the mot juste, put it well. He said Sarah was "snidely efficient". I think the Repubs are also making a big mistake attacking the media so much for just doing their jobs. As they say, "never pick a fight with anybody with an endless supply of ink".... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1362 Registered: 10-2004 |
I don't know.... as much as I loathe Palin and all that she stands for, I think she has a decent shot at making Biden look bad in the debates. Think about it - since "character" always seems to trump issues in these elections, all she has to do is keep her cool and throw in a few lines about being a mother, and those swaths of fence-straddling "middle-american" voters may be swayed. Biden, by contrast is the classic example of the deeply embedded, veteran Washington insider that people love to mistrust. Bush Jr. lost some of his evangelical support because it became apparent to them that he used them for votes. The Republicans pushed the evangelicals further away by embracing McCain instead of Huckabee. That means that for the past few years, those cranky christian cultists have been losing their voice, sitting at the brink of irrelevance. Palin, with her hardline christian fanaticism (the fact that her abstinence-taught 17 year old daughter got pregnant aside), *might* be able to woo some of the bible-thumpers back into the fold. I hope I'm wrong about all this, of course. And maybe like ETM says, Palin might actually turn off some potential "middle" voters. She *is* pretty hardline. I'm sure you read about how she suggested to a local library system that they take certain books out of circulation because of their "objectionable" content. Yes, she really is that scummy. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1254 Registered: 01-2005 |
McCain has flip-flopped on many of his beliefs over the past year, siding with Bush so that he could drag himself up from the bottom of the GOP nomination race. Remember, he was left as dead meat as few as 7 months ago. The only way he got back into contention was to saddle up next to Dubya's beliefs and agreeing with him 95% of the time. McCain can't explain his ideas as the voters will see them as Dubya's, so his only course is to attack Obama and praise the surge and the Bush tax cuts for the rich. Flip-flooping as he did to agree on approving water boarding shows that he has no honor, and would treat prisoners no better then he was treated at the Hanoi Hilton. Shame on you John. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1723 Registered: 03-2005 |
I honor and bow down to the fair-mindedness of all of you who have been dutifully watching the Republican convention. I just can't this year. I have consigned my TV back to its usual mothballed status. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2294 Registered: 05-2005 |
There were two brilliant political moves made last week and both were made by the right. The Liberals (who are actually conservatives) in New South Wales voted down electricity privatisation and the Republicans picked Palin. ETM, the very point of Palin is to keep the hard right on board as McCain sets course for somewhere close to the centre. Mark my words. It could all blow up in their faces of course, but right now I'm resiling from my previous and long held position that Obama would win in a landslide. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 341 Registered: 02-2008 |
That logic only holds true if McCain can retain his(if he ever really had any) hold on the center, and can generate some interest and momentum on his own behalf, which seems doubtful. In other words, ol' John may not be able to keep up his end of that bargain.Palin has pretty much eclipsed him and I'm sure there are plenty of the hardcore faithful wishing at this point that the ticket was Palin-McCain. I just read that 37 million people watched her speech last night - that's some heavy shit, dude. Those are Obama-style numbers. Without Palin, if it had been some empty suit, like say, Tim Pawlenty, they estimate viewership would've been half that. I would agree that it is going to come down to the center and the independents, but wonder why anybody that way minded would pick McCain's shoddier, ersatz version of that worldview over Obama's real deal. Call me crazy but his ideas actually make sense and are consistent. That has to count for somethin', dagnabit. And McCain himself looks more and more like a mushroom, with ideas twice as moldy...As long as Obama starts pushing back, hard, I think everything will be fine. And, I saw a bit of an interview where he did that today. No question though - Sarah the Mooselady gave a helluva speech and I found her to be that irrestible combination of charming and absolutely despicable. Something to talk to my therapist about. | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 189 Registered: 02-2007 |
There could well be a woman President in 4 yrs and it won't be Hilary! Can someone explain to me the Dem and Repub energy policy difference. Is ther one? Do they want US to be oil independent? What is alternate energy policy of the parties? It seems to me from this distamce that that should be a major issue. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1725 Registered: 03-2005 |
One of my co-workers is calling her Annie Oakley. I think the name is apt. I try not to lose hope, try not to think about the dark heart of inner America, about the essential unworthiness of so many of the people who flesh out the Republican ballot box ranks. That's the only thing I worry about. I'm still counting on McCain self-immolating as he has always done. He gets tired and peevish and then, wham! out come the deal-killer Tourette's-style exclamations that send half his supporters away. Remember his blast at the take-over of the Republican party by the religious right in 2000? And this mouthy woman with the rented baby? All hat and no reindeer. Her appeal will be exhausted by election day. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1726 Registered: 03-2005 |
David, Obama's campaign summary on that subject is at http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/factsheet _energy_speech_080308.pdf McCain's summary is at http://www.johnmccain.com/Informing/Issu es/17671aa4-2fe8-4008-859f-0ef1468e96f4. htm They are similar but with different emphasis and different degree. For example, both favor a "cap and trade" system for greenhouse gasses but McCain's timetable is slower. McCain puts more emphasis on drilling and nuclear power but both claim to support development of renewables including biofuels and both claim support of plug-in hybrid cars. Obama appears to emphasize subsidies or other incentives for domestic production of such vehicles while McCain appears to be seeking elimination of any barriers which may favor domestic manufacturers. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 343 Registered: 02-2008 |
I veer between pessimism and fragile, guarded optimism. This tootsie, this cookie, the PTA mom, who's a pitbull with lipstick and can field-dress a moose is having way more traction than I ever thought she would. Here's hoping she implodes soon, from one skeleton or another. It's curious the way they're keeping her in a bubble, away from the media. Will she fold up like a house of cards once she's really grilled by somebody good? Because I am a masochist and have the same morbid curiousity about Republicans one might have about a serial killer, wondering what makes them tick, I'm watching McCain's acceptance speech. He, apparently, was a POW. Who knew? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 345 Registered: 02-2008 |
He's also, apparently, a maverick... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 346 Registered: 02-2008 |
and, we're all his friends. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1255 Registered: 01-2005 |
I thought James Garner was Maverick. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2295 Registered: 05-2005 |
Wasn't Tom Cruise Maverick? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 347 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ah believe that was Mel "Sugartits" Gibson. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1256 Registered: 01-2005 |
I once owned a 1973 Maverick. | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 355 Registered: 01-2007 |
I've been following the election a bit, but when the new Rebublican running mate was picked the words that described filled me with fear (and for any American that is): Republican, Christian, Hunter ( or was it firearms supporter) | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1221 Registered: 08-2006 |
Watched this last night: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/09/05 /biden-on-the-rnc-what-do-you-talk-about -when-you-cant-explain-the-last-eight-ye ars-of-failure/ If they don't drain the life out of Biden before the debates, they could be very interesting, indeed... | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2308 Registered: 05-2005 |
That is superb! This could lead to the most interesting VP debate ever I think. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1728 Registered: 03-2005 |
Thanks Rob. THAT'S why I've voted Democratic since the first time I could vote. I retract all negative things I said about Biden. It also gets me thinking: if every Democratic office-holder who is not facing an election this November were to go out and fan across the country and stump for the party--making the case as Biden does here for the urgent crisis-level need to get the Republicans out of the White House and doing it from the gut level of the Democratic Party's values--McCain and Palin would be the forgotten faces they so richly deserve to be. What is needed is this type of on-the-ground rebuttal to the corporate media's mass disinformation. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1260 Registered: 01-2005 |
I hope Bill and Hillary get out there as well stumping for Obama with inspirational speeches. Gore made a big mistake in 2000 by distancing himself from Bill, and look what we ended up with. This race shouldn't even be close if Bill and Hillary get out there and fire up the crowds. I'm also looking for the newly registered voters to give Obama-Biden a big push into the White House. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1370 Registered: 10-2004 |
Latest polls are essentially showing McCain and Obama in a dead heat. Basically, Obama's lead has shrunk as a result of Palin entering the fray. She has effectively stolen Obama's post-DNC thunder. These polls may be a load of caca, especially given that they apparently don't take into consideration the fact that most younger voters don't use land lines, and if they do, they sure as hell don't answer them when a pollster calls. But ultimately, who knows? Unless McCain/Palin screws up in some really major way, this is going to be a nerve-wrackingly tight race. The fact that everyone is just fawning over Palin is deeply disturbing, obviously. I've been feeling pretty bummed about things as of late, as you can probably tell. At this point, McCain/Palin in the White House really could be a reality. I'm trying to brace myself for it. And what's with these supposed swaths of voters who haven't made up their minds? Who are these people? I mean, what the hell? How could you not have made up your mind at this point in the game? What little faith I had in my country is eroding. I really hope my pessimism is proven wrong. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 361 Registered: 02-2008 |
You're not the only one. The whole thing is just disgusting, man. Sarah Palin is evil incarnate. What a vile, heinous, so-called human. And sadly, Wal-Mart shoppin', gun-totin', anti-abortion, gay-bashing, Downs Syndrome baby-havin', PTA mom that she is, it'll probably play in middle America. We are, let's face it, a nation of dumbfecks. Now, they're trying to paint Obama as a sexist, because he described McCain's policies as the equivalent of "lipstick on a pig". Of course he was talking about Sarah... They're fecking maggots - I hate them. Sorry to be so namby-pamby... | ||
| frank bascombe Member Username: Frankb Post Number: 356 Registered: 01-2007 |
I can't stand that woman Palin.urgh | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 191 Registered: 02-2007 |
If the trailer parks of the US elect these dumbfucks, you will hear millions of hysterical US haters laughing the biggest gut laugh ever heard, followed by the shaking of heads in despair as we wait another 4 years for the country to wake up from its insular, paranoid and disturbing world view. The agenda for the next decade of international relations will be set by Europe and Asia and the US will become a reactionary, harping, largely hypocritical and inward looking fallen Republic. Creationism? Guns? Sexual fear and loathing? Fundamentalist claptrap? Fear? God I am so depressed. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1266 Registered: 01-2005 |
ETM, McCain has used the "lipstick on a pig" expression 3-4 times in the last year, MSNBC showed them all last night. "Believe The Lie", an old X-Files line, but it really seams to be the underlying theme of the McCain campaign. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 366 Registered: 02-2008 |
It's all so feckin' hypocritical and disingenous it almost literally makes me retch. Of course he has. So has just about every other Republican pol you can name. It's a common as dirt expression - one of McCain's advisors even wrote a book with the title. The thing that really gets up my titties, as Spence sez, is that the Repukes know what they're doing, playing their evil little game. Every minute spent talking about porcine makeup is a minute NOT spent talking about that retard Bush, his criminal and inept policies, and how McSame will just be 8 more years of the same repugnant bullshit. Make no mistake, Caribou Barbie is the devil. It'll be hard enough recovering from the last 8 disastrous years if O wins. If McCain wins, it simply won't happen. We'll NEVER recover. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1268 Registered: 01-2005 |
Tracy Flick, Caribou Barbie, whatever you want to call her, the media won't stop talking about her. She makes me retch every time I see her or hear her name. Obama is being distracted by that wolf killer, and he looks to be tired and off his game. Obama needs to concentrate on McCain being McSame and let Biden take care of the wicked witch from the north. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1224 Registered: 08-2006 |
Why all the sad faces, gang? Don't count Obama out - not by a long shot. I'm gonna make a prediction now: after the election, the big story will be "what happened with the polls?" Don't listen to 'em - the Obama campaign's got its eye on the Electoral College - and don't ever forget that Obama might be Harvard educated but he got his political education in Chicago. We don't put lipstick on pigs around these parts, we eat them. Lots of them. We eat Republicans, too. Obama's got the ground organization, he's got the savvy and, even if it's tough to tell right now, he's got the grit to take these pukes down. Trust me on this: Chicago's gonna come through for y'all. This ain't no beauty contest. Palin can have Miss Congeniality. We're gettin' the White House. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1225 Registered: 08-2006 |
By the way, here's a clip of the man on "Letterman" last night: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/10 /obama-appears-on-letterma_n_125509.html | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1269 Registered: 01-2005 |
Rob, I'll be severly dissapointed by my fellow Michiganders if McCain carries Michigan. The infamous "Reagan Democrats from Macomb County" haven't reared their ugly heads and carried the state for the Republicans since 1988. That saying, yor are correct about the Electoral College. 2004 Bush states Virginia, North Carolina, Colorado and New Mexico are all there for the taking for Obama. He also has a decent chance in Ohio and Florida. McSame has to almost run the table on five or six of these states if Obama carries all the states Kerry did in 2004. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 369 Registered: 02-2008 |
You know the Obama that shouted "Enough!" in his acceptance speech? That's the Obama we need to see now. Time to start throwing some 'bows! I think there is solace to be gathered from the electoral vote scenarios, but it's limited. It is going to come down to a handful of swing states, as it seemingly always does, and it's just too close for comfort in some of them. Trying to stay positive (you gotta stay positive), Ohio is looking good for O; he's 3 or 4 pts. up there today. And, no Repuke has ever won the presidency without carrying that state. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 370 Registered: 02-2008 |
Fantastic piece by Cintra Wilson, a writer I've long admired, on the bee-hived blow up doll. I'm not sure I've heard what Palin represents summed up more succinctly than "ideological brain rape": http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2008/09 /10/palin_feminism/ | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1271 Registered: 01-2005 |
Ouch! If I was a supporter of Sarah Palin and John McCain I would be embarrased by her interview with Charles Gibson. She is hopelessly over her head as a VP candidate. A further "dumbing down" of the GOP and a perfect lackey for "big bidness". With Obama back on the attack yesterday against McSame, look for Obama and Biden to steady the ship and forge back into the lead. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 371 Registered: 02-2008 |
Even the ladies on the View kicked McCain's arse! That, coupled with Palin's abysmal, not ready for primetime performance, does indeed give a sense of the pendulum swinging back. She really had that deer in the headlights look, didn't she? | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1272 Registered: 01-2005 |
ETM, Tina Fey might be on SNL tonight performing her first Sarah skit. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1227 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'm sure most of y'all have seen this already, but this is one for the ages. Tina Fey is some kinda genius. http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/v ideo/clips/palin-hillary-open/656281/ | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1276 Registered: 01-2005 |
The McCain = Hoover comparison, this will sink him. Sarah Palin has now been made irrelevant. Watch the polls start to trend back to Obama. I'm just sorry that the worlds economy has to suffer so much. The downfall of the economy due to a lack of oversight caused by deregulation in the free market have never been more clear. | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 188 Registered: 05-2005 |
Agreed Michael. Saw Joe Biden interviewed last night on CNBC last night re the US financial services meltdown and he was very impressive. Laid the blame squarely at the feet of the cowboy capitalism that has flourished under the Bush regime. Palin's hockey mom populism suddenly looks irrelevant. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1278 Registered: 01-2005 |
McCain has stated 22 times this year that the US economy is basically sound. Yesterday he puposed a 9/11 type commisson to study the economic meltdown. He has also stated that he is against big government and a deregulator. This should be enough ammo for Obama/Biden to defeat McCain/Palin in these trying economic times. If not, I'm moving to Canada. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 382 Registered: 02-2008 |
I'm starting to feel slightly more optimistic, though it's still far too close for comfort. With the Bradley effect, the Bubba vote, whatever you want to call it, Barack needs to be 3 or 4 pts. ahead in the polls. And, even if you look at it by electoral votes, it's tightened up considerably. But still, the momentum looks like it's going the other way. You know this economy thing? Mainly the fact that it's crashing down around our ears? Turns out McCain had a lot to do with that. He was one of them, er, deregulator type fellers. And his good pal, who looks like he's actually back on the campaign, Phil Gramm, was one of the main architects of major deregulation statutes. And, God love him, he can't seem to curb the Tourette's that forces him to say every 5 minutes that the economy has "sound fundamentals". Or maybe it's Alzheimer's... And that Sarah Palin chick? Turns out she's a know-nothing, no talent, really really unethical floozy. Who woulda guessed? Her whole star, to quote Cole Porter, was too hot not to burn out. Her rancid bubble looks like it's about to burst, if it hasn't already. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 383 Registered: 02-2008 |
Meant to comment on Tina Fey as Sarah Palin: it really was a moment of true comic genius and should go on the short list of great SNL moments. She was impeccable. My favorite line from it is Fey as Palin's take on global warming: "It's just God huggin' us tighter". | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1231 Registered: 08-2006 |
Our "ownership society" model isn't working out that well, it seems. If anything shows up the bankrupt neocon "trickle down, in the markets we trust" philosophy, this week has. Thanks god Bush/McCain couldn't convince anyone to bite when they were trying to privatize Social Security. I mean, is the Fed prepared to bail out my grandpa because some hotshot kid at Lehman Brothers is busy securitizing bad home loans even he doesn't understand? If more than half the country can't see this as a result of a profoundly flawed, cynical Republican worldview, I give up. Great Obama quote: "They say they want an ownership society but what they're really saying is you're on your own." (Unless, of course, you're a financial industry executive.) | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2326 Registered: 05-2005 |
That SNL clip is hilarious. My favourite line is the way she says "I don't know what that means" after the Hilary character says "I reject the Bush doctrine". Second favourite line is "I can see Russia from my house". By the way, is the US a communist state now, what with all the banks, brokers, mortgage lenders and insurance companies being nationalised? The gipper must be turning in his grave. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1742 Registered: 03-2005 |
Nope, Padraig. It's a fascist state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1280 Registered: 01-2005 |
Screw the gipper. It's his "kill big government" and "get rid of the regulators" trend that started this economic mess. The Bush's then took the ball and carried it over the goal line. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1232 Registered: 08-2006 |
It's true, Michael. I loathed Reagan when he was president - never thought I'd see a worse chief executive in my lifetime. But the Repubes have outdone themselves with this bunch. Someone should make a video: "Conservatives Gone Wild." Actually, someone probably has... | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2336 Registered: 05-2005 |
I hope nobody took from my comment above that I was a fan of that very talented actor... | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1282 Registered: 01-2005 |
No problemo Padraig. We knew were you were coming from. Rob, right you are. McCain-Palin are just as scary if not more so. A hot tempered 72 year cancer survivor and a dumber then Bush blank slate VP candidate. If Palin is an example of McCain's gut picks to fill out his staff, god help us all if he gets elected. Of course the GOP Diebolt voting machine folks could rig the results again like they did in Ohio in 2004 for the GOP I see Hillary and Bill stumping for Obama heavily in the next six weeks and getting another 10% or so of their supporters who are going for McCain now to come home and vote for Obama. That should seal the deal for Obama. I don't hear a lot about this, but the newly registered voters are going to be a huge plus for Obama-Biden. Their ranks are growing by the week, much faster and at a much higher Democrat percentage rate then in 2004. In 2004 they were cancelled out by the huge evangelical turnout for Bush. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1234 Registered: 08-2006 |
Michael, your last paragraph hits on what I think is going to be the big post-election story. Pollsters don't know who these people are, and they don't know how to reach them (cell phones have thrown the polling companies for a loop, even though they've been around for a while now). I don't think Obama will win in a landslide, but he will win, and the margin might surprise people, particularly the poll-watchers. Now, where's some wood I can knock on? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1746 Registered: 03-2005 |
Cross your fingers, Rob. I see Obama has come out with some definitely appropriate questions about this absurd sudden-panic "take it or leave it" Bush Treasury Department proposal to bail out the banking system. As usual for Republicans, it's all top-down in focus. It's probably the economic equivalent of the Iraq war resolution. The Bush crowd are uneducable. They will never change, not to the last second. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2338 Registered: 05-2005 |
I probably shouldn't give away a good idea, but has anyone registered www.whatifhedies.com? | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1236 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ha! Register it now, Padraig! That's funny... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 388 Registered: 02-2008 |
Now, McCain wants to postpone the debate that was scheduled for Friday. What a pussy! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1749 Registered: 03-2005 |
ETM, my bet is that the majority of people will see it EXACTLY that way. Reasonable minds cannot differ. There is only one plausible candidate for the U.S. presidency in this campaign. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1237 Registered: 08-2006 |
I love how you put things sometimes, Randy! Very funny. Indeed, this is one of the weirdest political stunts I've seen ever. The McCain camp is flailing, which is scary - and telling. By the way, did anyone see this? http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/24 /john-mccain-cancels-lette_n_128998.html Letterman. He's a national treasure. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1238 Registered: 08-2006 |
By the way, it's the second video on the above link, not the Top Ten video, to which I'm referring. (Not that the Top 10 isn't good.) You have to scroll down a bit. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1284 Registered: 01-2005 |
McCain's rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 390 Registered: 02-2008 |
Supposedly, a deal has been reached, at least in principle. So, it looks like "Old Yeller" is going to have to show, or look like an even bigger arse. We should start a betting pool about how many minutes it's gonna take Grumpus to lose his shit! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1390 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ewan, do you happen to know the time/network of Friday's debate, assuming it does happen as planned? | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 393 Registered: 02-2008 |
Oh, it's happening. McCain may not be there, but it's happening. The facility will be open, with klieglights blazing, all the news anchors will be there, as well as Obama. Don't quote me on this, but I believe it'll start somewhere around 6:00, pacific time. Btw, looks like I spoke too soon - the deal's apparently been scuttled. McCain sure helped, huh? Thing is, according to the position he staked out, if there's no deal, he won't show up. He's gonna look stupid, no matter what he does, basically... | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2347 Registered: 05-2005 |
If it is on, ABC are showing it live in Australia at 11am. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1285 Registered: 01-2005 |
McCain has mucked up the waters somewhat. The conservative Republican congressmen are trying a runaround with thier own last minute alternative plan that has no oversight and is based on an insurance ploy. It has no chance to fly, but it gives McCain a shot at being a hero by brokering a deal with them. Pure political hooey on their part. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 394 Registered: 02-2008 |
Putin, rearing his head (see Katie Couric's interview with Palin): http://www.boingboing.net/images/x_2008/ putinrearshishead.jpg | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 395 Registered: 02-2008 |
One of my favorite political blogs is the one put out by Digby, a mysterious woman who operates out of Santa Monica. Her take on the so-called "experience gap" between the candidates today is spot-on: http://digbysblog.blogspot.com/ | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2349 Registered: 05-2005 |
I thought Obama shaded the debate, but there was no knock-out punch from either of them. McCain annoyed me with the Reagan-like folksy stuff, especially as it's so obviously an act. But maybe that stuff still works in America? Obama looked and sounded presidential far more often. There really was a touch of Kennedy about him. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1391 Registered: 10-2004 |
Padraig, that Reagan-like folksy stuff, unfortunately, is how Republicans keep "winning" debates (and elections). It's become a calculated tactic, because it actually seems to resonate with all those middle 'mericans. And by contast, it makes the democrat appear more cold and detached, despite more nuanced and intelligent responses. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1239 Registered: 08-2006 |
"Nuanced and intelligent" responses, indeed, Jeff. I was a bit disappointed Obama didn't swing a little harder (is it possible to make the man mad at all?) but if you listened to the substance of his thoughts compared to the palaver coming out of McCain's mouth there was no contest at all. But Obama needs to hit back harder against some of McCain's distortions and mix a little humor or bite into his responses. Most accurate quote I've seen today, for the NY Times: McCain sounded at times "like a tinny echo of the 20th century." | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1750 Registered: 03-2005 |
I only care about my candidate. I watched him intently. Obama needed to be a little more relaxed. His arrival onstage was perfect but his delivery always seemed a little stilted. Except for one time, he didn't know when to interrupt McCain. He tried to do it too early on too many occasions which made him seem callow and inexperienced. The good thing is that this debate is the only one for which McCain has some expertise. Obama should have brought up Ted Kennedy rather than McCain. On the subject of healthcare reform I wish Obama would point out that one of the big reasons US manufacturers--particularly the old ones like Ford and GM--cannot produce competitive products for export is because the US is the only major manufacturing nation in which the companies must pay for medical care and also retirement. This is not a leftwing liberal issue. It's a major national business survival issue--a jobs issue!--and nobody brings it up. It drives me crazy. Obama missed two chances to bring it up last night. The economy is the big subject now and it's going to get bigger with each passing half-week. It is NOT hyperbole for me to state that we have a real danger of a currency collapse like Argentina in 2001. This is a big crisis and Obama needs to deliver a big over-arching theme for that when the next debate comes up. I suggest something about restoring the US to a culture of honor and honesty. It's the culture of dissembling--in the White House, in election strategies, in Wall Street boardrooms, on mortgage applications--that brought us to this terrible pass. Reach out to the constituency that tells the truth. That's the REAL values constituency! And it's the majority. And it's spread all across the country especially in the so-called flyover states. C'mon Obama! Give us the BIG picture. That's what you're good at. No more little bullshit laundry lists of 1970s-style Democrat pet programs. Lose that shit. That's for second-string candidates. I wish I could be Obama's advisor. All those dreadful usual suspect Demo advisors that lose us elections every cycle need to be put to death. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 396 Registered: 02-2008 |
Pretty disappointing. I tuned in hoping for an ass-whuppin', but got instead a draw, at best. McCain was far more poised than he had any right to be after getting called out on his ridiculous stunt. I thought for sure he'd be rattled and let loose with some gaffes or bursts of sputtering rage. Though I'm sure Obama's side of things was far more logically persuasive and would definitely add up better if you were to read a transcript, McCain probably won the thing on points. He did come across as way too angry and snide, though, and just, generally, looked and acted like an arsehole, which I hope hurt him. All of the "Senator Obama just doesn't understand" comments got particularly old, though they probably were effective, as definitely were the folksy stories about real people - they connect, like 'em or not. Obama left so many easy points on the table - about torture for instance. He really could've scored big on that one, instead of lamely giving McCain props for his stance on it. Obama, though this was probably his best debate performance yet, really is too nuanced, and, just too nice. I can't believe how many times he said McCain was right on different issues. All things said, I think this first matchup is going to have zero effect and not sway anybody who hasn't already chosen a side. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1287 Registered: 01-2005 |
I thought that Obama connected with the middle class a lot more then McCain did, who never mentioned the middle class once. Padraig, Obama reminded somewhat of Kennedy as well. Especially the clips I've seen of the 1960 Kennedy-Nixon debates. McCain full of contempt, never once looked at Obama, and was blinking constantly like Nixon, hunched over the dias looking like a battered old vulture. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1392 Registered: 10-2004 |
Ewan and Randy, I think you guys make an excellent and totally accurate assessment of Obama and the debates in general. And even though the media kinda seems to be handing this one to Obama, seeing these debates has really got me worried. I thought Obama's performance overall was lackluster, and McCain, for all his outdated and dangerous ideas, came off pretty solid and confident, like a rock. Obama appeared extremely astute and knowledgeable, but also a bit reticent and almost slightly passive at times. And yes, Obama missed numerous opportunities to slam McCain over various things, which got increasingly frustrating. And sure McCain was overdoing it with the condescension, but seriously, I think a lot of voters, sadly, see that as a sign of strength. Obama can say "middle class" 'til the cows come home, and NO ONE but us lefties is going to give a rat's ass. What's going to get the middle and working classes' attention (in the US political arena, where rational thought is consistently supplanted by knee-jerk emotion) is McCain's folksy, blunt, elder-tough guy approach. Like it or not, the fact remains that it's the emotional appeals and the snide, catchy insults; the delivery, style, and perceived confidence level of the candidates that matters in the minds of many "'Mericans." The debate just played like a re-run of the same Republican-Democrat stuff I've been seeing for most of my life. Both sides just walked right into the same prescribed rolls that have been working for Republicans and working *against* Democrats for decades now. McCain totally had Obama on the defensive throughout the debate, and he did this using a CLASSIC Repub tactic - that being the consistent hammering of a catchy, tagline insult: "Senator Obama just doesn't get it." You may recall Reagan pretty much melted Carter this way back in 1980 with his patronizing "there you go again." And as Randy mentioned, Obama would then try and interrupt prematurely in this totally ineffective way, stuttering for a word in with McCain just talking right over him, all in a vein effort at defensively trying to put out the little "Obama doesn't get it" fires. Point being that Obama needs a different approach, and Randy's statement about "usual suspect Demo advisors" losing us elections every cycle is spot-on. I've just seen too many instances where the Repubs play dirty and win, while the Dems try to take the high road and get burned. Not that I'm suggesting Dems need to play at the Repub below-the-belt level, but they desperately need a new approach. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 400 Registered: 02-2008 |
Ah well...there's always the debate Thursday. As long as Biden doesn't tell Palin she has a nice arse or say JFK communicated with America via the Internet during the Depression, we should be okay! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2605 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy for president! | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1289 Registered: 01-2005 |
Obama and Biden are in fact increasing their lead after the debate. McCain has turned out the loser with this dreadful economic downturn. He admitted earlier in the year that economic concerns are not his stong suit, and he has shown no leadership or insight on economic issues with his many blunders over the past two weeks. He bragged over the weekend and today that his presence in Washington would deliver enough Republican votes to get the 700 billion Wall Street bail out passed, well less then 1/3 of the Republicans voted for it and the bill did not pass. So much for his leadership. Saturday night he wasn't prodding for votes into the night, he was out to dinner at one of DC's toniest restaurants with his wife, lapdog Liberman and Lieberman's wife. My predication as of today: Obama will end up with about 320 Electorial votes to McCain's 218 and will also win the popular vote 52% to 45% with the other 3% going to the also rans. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1751 Registered: 03-2005 |
I hope you're right Michael. Spence, don't curse me with THAT horrible fate! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1244 Registered: 08-2006 |
So: the first test for McSame as the putative leader of the Republican party and he fails spectacularly. A 735 point drop in the Dow. That's Bush league, man. And the media's calling him on it. You can't fly in like Superman and perform like Elmer Fudd. I bet Biden's loading up the rhetorical shotgun with a big, fat smile on his face this morning. | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 194 Registered: 02-2007 |
If they can find a trillion to bale out these motherfs just imagine what they could do if they really wanted to. re poverty, Healthcare, education, housing, but then that would be too mush like socialism wouldn't it and as Randy said previously its a fascist state. I say let the system collapse. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 511 Registered: 07-2006 |
i note the absence of the term "nationalisation" in all the media coverage this has gotten of late. i'm with you david - let's let it go down all on its own. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2352 Registered: 05-2005 |
I hope the second bill passes. It will (but I thought the first one would too). It makes the Republicans look like petty asses. I've got that landslide feeling again. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1756 Registered: 03-2005 |
I hope that bill disappears. It is a bandaid on the wrong wound and we can't afford it. It's just another Bush boondoggle. It does nothing for the citizenry but gives the fat cats some more of the US Treasury to squander. It pushes us closer to national bankruptcy. And we have YET to be told WHY this needs to occur now. It's Iraq war resolution #2. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1757 Registered: 03-2005 |
It's not sexy stuff to read but I am in favor of Congressman Peter DeFazio's (D-Ore) alternative. It is not lengthy and can be read at this page: http://www.defazio.house.gov/index.php?o ption=content&task=view&id=441 | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 190 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy - I saw Peter DeFazio interviewed on CNBC last night talking about his alternative plan and he was very persuasive. Spoke convincingly on why the current bailout plan will not work and does not address the underlying housing and jobs crises in the US. And you are right that Bush's fear-mongering on the financial meltdown is almost identical to his fear-mongering on Iraq. There was a great clip on the Daily Show a few days ago where Jon Stewart compared Bush's pre-Iraq invasion speech in 2003 with his speech last week on the bailout. Check it out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6JVudq5wS E8 | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 191 Registered: 05-2005 |
Just been watching some of the Sarah Palin interview with Katie Couric on CBS last week. Oh. My. God. She is embarrassingly stupid. I would almost feel sorry for her if it wasn't for the fact she could be a heartbeat away from the presidency in a few weeks time. I can't believe they have actually managed to dig up someone dumber than Bush himself. Even conservative commentators in the US are now seeing her as a major liability. Check out this CNN clip showing Palin's unbelievably inept (not to mention incomprehensible) answer to Couric's question on the financial bailout - and Jack Cafferty response describing it as the most pathetic performance he has ever seen from someone aspiring to high office in the US: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L8__aXxXP Vc And check out this clip from SNL where Tina Fey 'parodies' Palin by using the EXACT SAME words that Palin used in the Couric interview! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeMypXCUW Mw | ||
| Geoff Holmes Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 409 Registered: 05-2005 |
I can sort of understand why you are against the bailout Randy. After all, as a U.S. taxpayer, it's your money. However, as someone in a little country way across the Pacific ocean, I have a horrible feeling that if it's not passed, my little country too will go under finacially, despite what our PM says. Didn't someone say, with great power comes great responsibilities? Apart from that, have you got the Moffs Collection yet..and what do you think? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2615 Registered: 05-2005 |
Palin has to a man in drag!?!?!? Is this a wind up or what!? Where did she come from and why!? What's more, can she go back to the farce from where she camem... What the hell is going on!? As someone who isn't American that's all I have to say on Palin. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1758 Registered: 03-2005 |
Geoff, when I was in Brisbane in 2007 every house for sale in New Farm, West End, Spring Hill, Highgate Hill--all the places I'd want to live--were being offered up for auction. The property frenzy was intense. Brisbane was in the midst of a huge property bubble just like what I'd seen here in Los Angeles. It will have to deflate. Oz will hurt too, just to correct its own credit bubble. I don't really know where it's come from but my guess is that the Chinese and perhaps the Indians too have plowed so much of their earnings from their new economies into the developed world's financial systems--buying US Treasury bonds and comparable instruments from the Bank of England and the ECB--that there has been a huge imbalance of cash in our countries. And some of us--certainly the Americans and the British--have happily lapped it up to mask an insidious slow decline in our own standards of living resulting from the movement of manufacturing from our countries to theirs. And poor bittersweet beautiful Oz with its vast lonely emptiness between its glittering cities gets caught in the middle. The $700 billion isn't enough to repair a global problem Geoff, but it's plenty to overwhelm our balance sheet. I agree that "with great power comes great responsibilities." I believe that to the bottom of my soul. For me the proudest moment in our history is the Marshall Plan. Unfortunately, many of my countrymen don't understand what that means. And look at how we've used that power: Iraq? Afghanistan? (We're really screwing up Afghanistan by focusing on the cities and the minimal central government that we installed instead of its real structure of tribal leaders and villages. The Soviets made the same mistake.) Cuba? Iran? A lot of people have criticized the British for their empire but at least the British appreciated that it required hard work to maintain and they developed some interest in the other cultures they conquered. I can't help feeling that maybe the expression is "with great power comes great failure." I'd rather see a pluralistic world. I haven't heard the Moffs. I can't remember what, but there was something in your description of them that put me off. You know what I have heard though? Hugh Nimmo turned me onto the spoken word work of Adam Gibson with Modern Giant and now Aerial Maps. He's someone who conveys a sense of Oz! Spence . . . . have you seen the footage of her 1984 beauty contest? She's not a man in drag. But, yes, the whole McCain/Palin ticket seems to reflect a hyper-accelerated degeneration of this country, a breathtaking demonstration of many of my countrymen's rejection of Geoff's principle of great power bringing great responsibility. C'mon Rob! You're always good at bucking me up! Tell us the good things I'm forgetting. Wow, I overdid this. Sorry. It's morning and I need a drink. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 404 Registered: 02-2008 |
I was looking forward to the Obama-McCain debate last week, but I'm REALLY looking forward to the debate tonight between Palin and Biden. Though there's been some talk from, mainly, Republican spinmeisters that she's actually a skilled debater, I think the real truth is that she's going to be deeply, tragically out of her depth. It'll be like watching a trainwreck. Biden has a gift of the gaffe, too, but let's face it - this bitch is just dumb. To watch her interviews, with Katie Couric and others, is to exhaust one's cringe reflex. Her "answers" aren't just dumb, they're incomprehensible. They're word salad. They remind me of that poor dumb, blonde beauty contestant last year who rambled on about how third world countries faced a terrible map shortage. I actually think she's pretty attractive - she does look like Tina Fey, and vice versa, and what could be wrong with that? It's just when she opens her mouth and reveals what a heinous piece of spent jet trash she is, that she becomes ugly. I'm actually for the bailout, er rescue, and don't give a shit about the taxes. Opposing it is just crazy talk. It's a flawed solution, but really the only one right now that'll prevent cataclysmic results and real pain to a lot of just ordinary people, never mind the Wall St. scumbags. I mean, feck them, if it was only about those venal and incompetent creeps, I'd say hang 'em, hang 'em high. There are lampposts on Wall St. high enough... And, not that it's going to any kind of global fix, but in the clusterfeck that is the world economy, what happens to the US will affect a lot of our friends and neighbors and inflict pain on their good citizens as well. It's a bitter pill to swallow, but it has to be done. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1397 Registered: 10-2004 |
Nice Tom Waits reference in your post, Ewan. Yeah, I'm looking forward to tonight's debate as well, but I'm actually expecting Palin to come off a bit better than she has in recent interviews. You know that McCain's camp is coaching the fuck out of her this week. So, while I'm not expecting her to do well, I'm also not expecting a total disaster. And with McCain last week in the first debate, I think some of us were expecting him to kinda blow it, lose his cool, get into a hissy fit, or give weird, brain-addled responses as he has done on televised interviews in the past few weeks. But no, he actually came off quite comfortable and confident, and I highly suspect they gave him a shot of cocaine right before he went on. Maybe they'll give Palin some meth to help her hyper-focus on the stock responses they've supplied her with. As for the bailout - I'm hearing far too many noted economists from all over the world talk of how the bailout, as it is currently tailored, is ultimately a mere bandaid with a massive price tag. And, as far as I understand it, there's really no accountability for those who recklessly got us into this mess. I don't know - don't get me wrong, as I'm really just speaking hypothetically, but sometimes it seems like we need some kind of hardcore, serious economic depression to really underscore just how delicate and temporary all of this is. Honestly, I don't want to see people suffer, and if we can prevent things from worsening in an intelligent and non-myopic way, that's great. I just can't shake the feeling that people aren't going to learn much or take anything away from this without really feeling some pain first. The bailout sets a potentially bad precedent. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 408 Registered: 02-2008 |
Here's my theory: a lot of Palin's problems with interviews have probably stemmed from her having been coached within an inch of her life. She's so packed full of information that she can barely deliver a comprehensible sentence. And, of course, it doesn't help that she's dumb as a box of hammers. If she attempts to go the policy wonk route with Biden, it'll end in tears. She simply can't compete with him on that level. If she falls back on what many consider to be her strengths, the folksy generalities, the pithy zingers, then she'll be much more formidable. But can she really avoid getting into specifics for 90 minutes. There are, I'm pretty sure, going to be some substantive questions. I could be wrong, but my bet is that some metaphorical blood will be shed and it won't be Smokin' Joe's. Btw, this is it for Sarah. Unless she performs adequately, she's finished on the national stage and will forever be in the Dan Quayle category. I think people are looking the other way and pretending that it's a fair fight, because: a) the Republicans have to put a game face on. They'd much rather, if they could, have one of Sarah's kids get sick and her have to drop out, b) the media loves a horse race, and c) we Americans are kindly people and don't want to really acknowledge that anybody could really be that stupid, so we pretend that maybe she's smarter than all of the evidence has tended to show. You know, I haven't done a comprehensive survey of economists, but I haven't seen any that have said they didn't think the bailout was highly flawed, but highly necessary. Paul Krugman, for one, whos' pretty smart, thinks we have to hold our nose and do it. That's good enough for me. Also, I'm not sure that thems that need to punished would have to deal with any consequences the way things are now, anyway. Most of 'em have golden parachutes and would be hired in a heartbeat by one of their corporate buddies sitting on the board of another company. They are, as the saying goes, thick as thieves. I think the cure of not doing anything would probably end up killing the patient. A lot of innocent people would feel a lot of pain. Things would work out in the long run, possibly, but as the great economist said, in the long run, we'll all be dead. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1399 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, no one is saying to not do anything, just that we're possibly being myopic by not discussing alternatives. Not that I'm an expert on said alternatives by any stretch; I'll admit economics has always been a serious weak spot for me. I just can't help the feeling that the nature of the current bailout plan is a bit rushed and kneejerk. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 409 Registered: 02-2008 |
Oh, it's totally rushed and kneejerk. It's just that letting things drift seems scarier. Hey, maybe Obama can straighten it out in January, after he's inaugurated. For the first time, I'm feeling pretty optimistic. This sucker looks like it's starting to set in concrete for Barack - he's ahead nationally, in the electoral college, hell, he's even doing well in the big battleground states, like FL, OH and PA. Of course, I hate to make predictions - I thought Kerry was gonna win! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1761 Registered: 03-2005 |
I don't know if this is what Jeff is alluding to, but I think the populace of this country is drugged by a culture of debt. So the solution for the collapse brought on by unsustainable consumer debt? Add to the national debt! When has a debt problem been solved by assuming more debt? The compulsive materialism and just bloody-minded priorities of the American middle class is killing them. I'm not just thinking about the fat cats on Wall Street. I'm thinking about a national pathology of greed. Americans eat until they are fat pigs. They drive vehicles that would serve well as public shuttles. They live in houses that measure 1000 square feet per occupant. And they haven't paid for any of it! There is no sense of proportion, no recognition that there is such a thing as "enough." This isn't the fault of the politicians or the leaders. This is the fault of the people themselves. A wake-up call for this population is overdue. But if you want to get elected you sure as hell can't say that. If he were still alive my old favorite Paul Tsongas could tell you that. My new favorite? Russ Feingold. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 411 Registered: 02-2008 |
I appreciate the sentiment, and largely agree, but not to rain on your generalization, which I enjoyed, a lot of innocent folks who have no debt at all, upstanding "pay as you go" kinda citizens, would get swept up in the net of misery - people who own stocks, have IRAs invested in money markets or mutual funds, people trying to buy houses or get their kids in college, posters to the GBs board, many of them quite svelte... And while assuming more debt may not be the answer, or the whole answer, I don't think letting the economy go arse over teakettle is either... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1402 Registered: 10-2004 |
Randy, that *is* what I was alluding to, and you sum up the grotesque culture of debt and gluttonous consumerism beautifully. Ewan, I don't think anyone truly wants to let the economy tank... The thing is, something desperately needs to change, regardless of what form the bailout ultimately takes and how much further it pushes us into the red . And I'm not talking about Wall Street, but the core values that shape so many gluttonous American consumers who accumulate vast quantities of debt by living beyond their means. Sadly, history proves that it takes things like 'great depressions' to really jolt people out of la-la land. Again, I'm not saying I really want that to happen, or that I want people to suffer (except for SUV drivers, who should be indiscriminately taken out and shot).. I'm just frustrated that current public discourse will never get to the heart of this problem, because it's simply not what people want to hear, as Randy mentions above. I mean, speaking as someone whose only debt is his student loan; an "upstanding 'pay as you go' citizen" who makes a very modest wage and has never, ever even owned a credit card; someone who staunchly believes that if you can't afford it, don't freaking buy it until you can; and someone who doesn't even have a dime tied up in stocks, IRAs (I have a nice coffee can, hehehe...), it's infuriating to see the role that our very culture plays in all this. I have a feeling I exist in an increasingly diminishing minority, and I resent having to suffer for other peoples' compulsiveness. I realize I'm stating the obvious here... and asking for the moon.... Maybe there is some tiny sadistic part of my brain that wants to see our society feel the pinch a bit more so as to get a sense of how unsustainable the lifestyle actually is in the long term. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1249 Registered: 08-2006 |
I love this board, for the record. I step out for half a day, and look at the big brains on you guys! Really, this is good stuff. I agree with a lot of what you guys are saying. But on a fundamental level, I don't at all blame this crisis on the consumer. It's true: we have too much debt. We're gluttons. We have mortgages we can't afford and have never should have received. But this crisis is founded on unwise bets placed on us by people who should have known better. There was once a time, back when I bought my house, when a banker would tell you that, no, in fact you were not mortgage material. People need to be told that. Credit is a privilege, not a right, and there was a time when Wall Street could make bets on the credit-worthiness of Americans with confidence. Once credit - dangerous amounts of credit - was available to anyone with a pulse and a checking account, that house of cards was bound to fall. Collateralized debt obligations are complex, esoteric securities in the best of times. When they're propped up by bad loans, they're a disaster. Anyone who doesn't see this as a regulatory failure, pure and simple, doesn't understand the thread of events that lead to the Great Unravelling. This is a direct result of Republican philosophy, and it can be traced very easily to a number of conservative initiatives that passed under Clinton, Bush and even earlier. Anyone who says it doesn't matter who's president, or who's in Congress, can eat crow along with their $2,300 in individual bailout debt. So again, I don't blame this crisis on the consumer. I don't even blame it on Wall Street. I blame it on the voter. You release the boxer without a ref and someone's gonna end up in a world of hurt. It's what he's trained to do, after all. That's why we have the ref. Oh, and Randy, you were looking for some affirmation: The word I'm getting from my Washington friends is almost giddy. The polls are good. The news on the ground is even better. I didn't hear anything like this level of enthusiasm or optimism with Kerry. I think the Obama people have it going on. Wait and see... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1403 Registered: 10-2004 |
Watching the debates right now: Biden's mopping the floor. Not surpisingly. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1404 Registered: 10-2004 |
Rob, you're absolutely right: the blame for the current crisis falls squarely in the lap of Republican economic philosophy. When talking about gluttonous consumers, I was speaking more to a broader component of the problem. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1405 Registered: 10-2004 |
Debate update: whoa, responses to the question of gay marriage just got kind of weird... As I thought, her answers may be vapid and off the mark, but Palin's looking like she at least studied a few new catch phrases. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1762 Registered: 03-2005 |
I don't know what I think of that debate yet. Except that I enjoyed Joe's performance and I wanted to strangle Ms. Reagan wannabe. Yeah, I always want to duck when the gay marriage section comes up because I know that nobody is going to take a straightforward position. I patiently wait for Gavin Newsom. Rob, I tend to conflate the American consumer with the American voter. I don't know if that's valid or not but I assume they are roughly proxies for each other. I certainly agree about the role played by deregulation. I see that as starting in the Reagan years with the silly get something for nothing "supply side" economics which appealed to the American glutton. Very glad to hear the good news on the ground regarding the campaign. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1250 Registered: 08-2006 |
Wow, I though Biden was tremendous, and Palin was laughable. Independents won't see it in quite those terms but Biden did a whole lot of good for the ticket while Palin simply reinforced why we're in the mess we're in. The polls will reflect that. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 412 Registered: 02-2008 |
Gluttonous, shmuttonous. Sure, "greed is bad", it has that vague kind of moral truthiness about it, like, I dunno, you shouldn't fart in church, but I'm not really into moralizing over some people buying houses they couldn't really afford, or passing judgment on them. It's all too human. What's inhuman, what I'd rather save my moral outrage for is the more rapacious, slash and burn greed of the Wall St. "masters of the universe" who knowingly leveraged all of those dodgy securities to the hilt. As well as their deregulating government handmaidens, whose interests are inextricably intertwined with them. And while we're talking about moral outrage, what about the vast wealth gap in this country, the fact that the top 1% possess 90% of the wealth? And, that so many people, so many children in particular, don't have health insurance? That wages have stagnated and so many jobs have gone overseas? Hell, a lot of people have probably incurred massive credit card debt just buying groceries and gas. That's where the real moral rot lies. People buying houses the only way they'd probably ever get one, or some shmo buying a jet ski and flat screen TV on credit? Not so much. Sadly, Sarah didn't implode, nor did her head blow up. She didn't collapse in a puddle of sweat or say anything spectacularly dumb, though she did, in fact, say a lot of dumb things. She didn't really answer the questions that were addressed to her, just kind of, answered as she pleased with whatever she wanted to talk about at the moment. She mugged horribly and way overdid the folksy bullshit. That said, she didn't flame out the way I hoped she would and probably even did herself and the ticket some good. I think it ultimately, will come to be regarded as a draw, though if you're a "high information" voter and knew anything about the issues at all, it's clear Biden knew what the hell he was talking about and she didn't. As if that matters... She, btw, is horribly confused about the meaning of the word, "attribute". | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1763 Registered: 03-2005 |
All those things are true, ETM. But those schmoes have been VOTING for those policies. They don't exist in a vacuum. They aren't passive victims. They don't get a pass. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2357 Registered: 05-2005 |
Missed it. Had intended to watch it but took my daughter to WALL-E instead. I fell asleep several times. More to do with tiredness than the film. I think. Daughter like it a lot and got the enviro message from it. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1406 Registered: 10-2004 |
ETM - I echo Randy's sentiment: every single thing you say is dead true, but some of the "schmoes" or "gluttons" or whatever we want to call them, have a roll in this, too. So, my quick summary of last night's debate: Biden dominated, and I gotta say, in terms of pure style and delivery, he is a much better debater than Obama. Much more confident, solid, etc.... I thought he really came off as knowledgeable but also approachable, and he did a good job of emphatically speaking to the middle class. As I suspected, Palin didn't implode or explode, and although she seemed a bit terrified when answering the first question, she grew increasingly comfy over the course of the debate, to where by the end she was loading on the perky hockey-mom "charm" in spades, even *winking* at the camera several times. So, she didn't blow it. However, I also feel like her complete failure to actually answer half of the questions should be seen as "blowing it," but our standards have been set so low that people are merely giving her points for basically maintaining composure. Now, it's time to go and read how the media is spinning this thing... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 413 Registered: 02-2008 |
Sure they do, Jeff. Play a role that is. There's plenty of blame to go around - it's just so much more emotionally satisfying to blame the perps than the victims. The whole ignorace of the populace and the refusal of the middle class to vote in their own best economic interests is incredibly frustrating and I could babble on for pages and pages about that, not to mention the incidental detail that, truth is, the voters didn't put the current administration in: Bush didn't win in 2000 and a lot of people have persuasive evidence that he didn't win in 2004 (there was some hinky shit going on in OH), either. Actually, a good thing about the current economic woes is that they are a fairly concrete demonstration of just how well the Republicans' economic policies work and that they'll pretty much decisively put Obama in the driver's seat. The structural advantage they give him, by being a Democrat and by not being the party that's in power during such a massive feckup, are arguably why he's so far ahead at this point. Sarah is a dog from hell and I'm sad that she didn't fall down and start speaking in tongues. As you say, they cleverly lowered expectations to the point where she didn't have to do anything short of stay upright and not turn her head 180 degrees and spew green vomit. Otherwise, though I'm sure the base loved her, she was, to me, just utterly despicable. All the petty little attacks on Joe, which he wisely ignored, the winking, the mugging, the cutesy shit. I also enjoyed her tender and sensitive reaction to Biden's tearing up over nearly losing a child: she mentioned, for the 1,000th time that she and McCain were mavericks. And her thoughts on actually expanding the authority of the VP's office were just peachy, too. What a scary thought - that bimbo in the VP's office with more power than Cheney. And, I threw up in my mouth a little bit when she gave a "shout out" to the 3rd grade class. You're just too precious, Sarah! I may be wrong, but I think that might be the first "shout out" ever in a VP debate. Not that I've seen or read everything out there, but it looks like a lot of the polls are coming back saying Biden won. Which he did, by any reasonable, civilized standard. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1251 Registered: 08-2006 |
Ah, ETM, your comments bring a smile to my face. I don't know how anyone with the thinnest grasp on reality (which has a well-known liberal bias, as the great Colbert reminds us) could declare her the winner. From where I sat, she was atrocious, preposterous, monumentally bad. I understand I have a visceral reaction when I see a drag version of George Bush behind a podium, but you'd have to be pretty good with the whole denial thing to give the night to her. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1407 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, I know - it seriously boggles the mind and churns the stomach to think there are people out there who genuinely believe Palin "won" the night. I mean, she basically just said whatever the fuck she felt like saying and/or stuck to scripted talking points whenever she couldn't answer something. It was pathetic in the truest sense of the word. But all she has to do is act kind of perky and folksy, wink at the camera, and a frighteningly large segment of the population is hooked. It would've been fun to have a drinking game where every time she said "maverick" or "you betcha" or "hockey-mom," you take a shot of something. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1764 Registered: 03-2005 |
We'd all be staggering at the end of that game, Jeff. Rather than a drag version of George Bush, I saw her as a drag version of the Gipper. Which kind of scares me. I hope that in this mighty serious time, indie voters will NOT be in the mood for glad-handing aw-shucks jive. | ||
| David Gagen Member Username: David_g Post Number: 196 Registered: 02-2007 |
Love this board. Huge gut laughs all round if it wasn't so serious. Am I right in saying devil-woman may have tapped into a certain anti-intellectualism popular thes days? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2359 Registered: 05-2005 |
David, my 7-year old just said to me that: "I have fun taking things seriously". (We were playing a card game. She was, momentarily, losing. I was taking too much schadenfreude in this. She had the last laugh). So it is possible! ETM, Palin wasn't the first. Quayle gave a "shout out" to his "homies" in '88. "Bring da noise," he said. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1290 Registered: 01-2005 |
Palin's performance in the VP debate was laughably inept once she strayed beyond her coached talking points. It's so obvious that she wasn't vetted by McCain's VP selection team, probably because McCain chose her at the last minute as a gut reaction to being told that his buddy Libermann couldn't be his pick. I can't wait for Tina Fey's skit tonight on SNL! A couple of winks and a shout out to General McClellan for his leadership in the Afghanistan conflict! Here is the real Gen. McClellan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._M cClellan | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 512 Registered: 07-2006 |
i never quite understand the use of the term "middle class" in the american context. and increasingly down here too. since when did most people become middle class exactly? sure i was lucky enough to be indoctrinated by an overtly-socialist university, but it would seem a odd word to describe doin' it tough - or battling...as we call it here - average joes. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2363 Registered: 05-2005 |
Tina Fey (and the others) keeping hitting it out of the park. Best SNL season in how many years? http://www.nbc.com/Saturday_Night_Live/v ideo/clips/vp-debate-open-palin-biden/72 7421/ | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1291 Registered: 01-2005 |
joe, From Wikipedia, US names for average joes: Joe Blow, John Doe, Jane Doe, John Q. Public, Joe Schmoe, Joe Sixpack, John Smith, Eddie Punchclock (for blue-collar workers), Joe Benotz, Joe Botts (particularly in New York City), J. S. Ragman (U. S. Navy), Vinnie Boombotz (particularly in New York City), Joe Random, Mr. Cardholder, I. M. Marine (U.S. Marine Corps). | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2369 Registered: 05-2005 |
Joe Lunchpail and Sally Housecoat, as Mr Burns refers to them. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 520 Registered: 07-2006 |
i swear i fought the first 10-15 years of my life to have people call me ANYTHING other than joe, then something set in and i let it go. resigned mediocrity? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1773 Registered: 03-2005 |
I like "Joe." It's a great name. It's simple and honest. You can be anything with a name like "Joe." My mom used to call me "Sam" when I was a really young kid. That's another great name. I wished my folks had actually named me that. There are so many fussy names around, especially here where I am in Hollywood. I like the simple ones. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 524 Registered: 07-2006 |
it's true....it's digestible enough, unlike my italian surname. as a kid there were at least four other joes in my year level, which was never great. though it did help this uncoordinated youngin' attain an A in gymnastics after being so obviously confused with the uber athlete of the same name. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2644 Registered: 05-2005 |
Joe, your name is great. As Randy says, over here, jack, bert and Stan are good honest short names too. I kinda hated my name when I was a kid. I think its because I felt it created the illusion to my friends and teachers that i was loaded and very posh. Names like Spencer were quite unusual I suppose. Whereas Zahid a friend of mine at primary school, was equally unusual, I think he was quite comfortable. I could go down memory lane with that boy at my 10th birthday party, he brought along some cut out footballers from magazines of the time, like Shoot and match, his family were very very ppor. I'll never forget that. Anyhow, i'll quit before i punish ye more!! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2645 Registered: 05-2005 |
Oh, God bless Obama, we need him. End. | ||
| TROU Member Username: Trou Post Number: 169 Registered: 05-2005 |
I could cry if he's not elected... | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1294 Registered: 01-2005 |
Latest electorial map has McCain loosing Missouri's 11 EC votes from leaning McCain to the toss-up catagory. West Virigina is also close to moving from leaning McCain into the toss-up catagory with Arkansas not far behind in doing so. Obama has more then a 100 EC lead, but still doesn't have the 270 needed votes on the current electorial map. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 525 Registered: 07-2006 |
To make matters worse still, I realised yesterday the election falls on Melbourne Cup day. For anyone that doesn't know - we get a public holiday in this state FOR A HORSE RACE. Don't even get me started.....all I will say though, is that this means every pub will be full of people watching this dreary event and no one will be screening the election, unlike last time. So much for the gang's plans to sit around, getting right tanked and seeing the red out in style.... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1775 Registered: 03-2005 |
Don't jinx it. Just stay mum. Cross your fingers. Watch McCain perform as his own most formidable adversary. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 526 Registered: 07-2006 |
Hah...it's a deal. The way things are going, I might just come into work (the investment bank...heh) and see how the day pans out. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2376 Registered: 05-2005 |
Joe, two words - time zones. Election day Tuesday in the US is Wednesday in Australia. Find yourself a nice pub in Melbourne on Wednesday afternoon with some nice expat Americans to watch 40 states turn blue. I'll be doing to same in Sydney. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 527 Registered: 07-2006 |
oh thank christ! i'm putting in for the day off tomorrow..... | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1255 Registered: 08-2006 |
Still very encouraging numbers here. McCain continues to be dogged by the economy (a yoke he richly deserves), his attempts to paint Obama as terrorist sympathizer backfired badly and his campaign seems to think policy buckshot is better than a policy bullet (how Cheney of them). Meanwhile, Obama continues to be pitch-perfect - steady, smart... dare I say it, presidential. I'd never place a bet on the American public, but I don't think it's unrealistic to start measuring up those White House drapes. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1256 Registered: 08-2006 |
The Chicago Tribune endorsed Obama today, which might not sound surprising until you consider the Trib has never endorsed a Democrat - ever. And they were around to endorse Lincoln. So it's been a while... | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2655 Registered: 05-2005 |
the man done good at after dinner speaking y'all! http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/america s/7675927.stm | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 362 Registered: 04-2005 |
And it's not in the bag yet! Scary reading from the (self styled) greatest democracy on earth http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/sto ry/23638322/block_the_vote/ | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1259 Registered: 08-2006 |
Here are some very impressive stats from one of more respected US pollsters: If Obama wins like this we can be talking not only victory but realignment: he leads by 27 points among Independents, 27 points among those who have already voted, 16 among newly registered voters, 31 among Hispanics, 93%-2% among African Americans, 16 among women, 27 among those 18-29, 5 among 30-49 year olds, 8 among 50-64s, 4 among those over 65, 25 among Moderates, and 12 among Catholics (which is better than Bill Clinton's 10-point victory among Catholics in 1996). He leads with men by 2 points, and is down among whites by only 6 points, down 2 in armed forces households, 3 among investors, and is tied among NASCAR fans. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 436 Registered: 02-2008 |
I am starting to feel pretty optimistic. I think this puppy's starting to widen irrevocably and it's getting the feel of being set in concrete. Dunno if it's where you got your stats, but Charlie Cook, a god amongst pollsters, lists 6 reasons in his blog today why it's over for the McGrumpus and his scary doll. In a nutshell, it's that nobody's ever come back from being this far behind, this late in the game. Though I have to say, because it's bad luck not to, anything can happen! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1426 Registered: 10-2004 |
Remember how far behind McCain was in the primaries? The media had written him off (hell, everyone but Kev on this here board had written him off, some may recall), but he surged from behind. This is, obviously, a different set of circumstances, but I just can't be anything more than extremely cautiously optimistic. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 437 Registered: 02-2008 |
Oh, you buzzkill. Seriously, I know the arguments on both sides, and sure, McCain is a bit like Rasputin - it's hard to know if this latest round of bullets will keep him down. But that said, I think it's over for him. The final straw is the independents having deserted him in such large numbers. The middle is where these things are won and he's lost that turf - it used to be his. And the evidence just continues to roll in - I just saw a WSJ/NBC poll that has Obama ahead by double digits, 10 pts. This thing has broken so wide in Obama's favor, the Republicans probably won't even be able to steal it! But vote early, just in case... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1427 Registered: 10-2004 |
Not to be a buzzkill, but: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27324419/?GT 1=43001 | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 438 Registered: 02-2008 |
Hey man, in the words of the great Hold Steady, "you gotta stay positive". I did see that cuckoo-nutty thing, and it's so at odds with every other poll out there, I have to wonder whether it's an outlier and if even McGramps and Sarah P. take any comfort in it. As I tell global warming denialists when I argue with them, I think I'm gonna go with the bulk of the evidence on this one... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1428 Registered: 10-2004 |
I know... I'm just sayin'. It's too soon to be letting our guard down, imho. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1261 Registered: 08-2006 |
The Obama campaign's having an election-night event in Grant Park here in Chicago. Obama will be there, of course, and so will I. Jeff, I'm totally down with your caution - it ain't over 'til it's over, and I don't have a ton of faith in my fellow citizens. But I expect I'll be going to hear the next president of the United States speak. In my hometown. History in my own backyard. Prediction: I'll cry like a baby. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2388 Registered: 05-2005 |
I didn't write McCain off in the primaries. He was the only possible candidate for the Republicans as far as I saw it. I'm writing him off now though. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1793 Registered: 03-2005 |
I'm so with you Rob. If I were there I'd be blubbering embarrasingly. Andrew's link to the Rolling Stone article made me go so crazy I couldn't read beyond page one and I started thinking all sorts of things that would get me arrested. This is the first time in my 30+ years of voting I've EVER had the candidate I really wanted standing in the general election, not to mention AHEAD in the polls before the general election. I was only eleven when RFK ran for president. Only now do I understand how people were feeling back then. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 439 Registered: 02-2008 |
Here's a great piece by that magnificent bastard, Larry David, on waiting for Nov. 4th: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/larry-davi d/waiting-for-nov-4th_b_137029.html | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1429 Registered: 10-2004 |
and then there's this piece, which someone on another msg. board brought to my attention: http://www.wvgazette.com/News/2008101802 51 remember, vote tampering was literally rampant during the last two presidential elections. what makes people think it won't happen again? diebold may have more of a say in this election than we do. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1298 Registered: 01-2005 |
It's pretty telling when Obama is up by 10 points in a solid red state like Indiana. Also he is up by double digits in Viginia and Ohio, and looks like a lock in New Mexico and Colorado. These were all states that Bush won in 2004 when Bush narrowly beat Kerry in the EC vote talley. McCain is piling huge resources in Pennsylvania trying to pull in a blue state, but he's down by double digits there as well. McCain was blaiming Bush yesterday for all the troubles the US is in, this will tick off the loyal GOP base who still respect Bush, tick them off enough that some of them won't bother to show up to vote. The rats are deserting the ship, it's 11:59, and the die has been cast for BHO and Joe B. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1262 Registered: 08-2006 |
One great thing about these poll numbers - assuming they're even close - is they kind of negate the Republicans' block-the-vote efforts. You can suppress some votes - lord knows the Repubs know how - but not 10 points worth. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 443 Registered: 02-2008 |
Even if you didn't have faith in the mighty O, you'd have to be impressed by his incredibly smart and efficient organization. His get the vote out early operation is an almost fiendishly clever idea. It not only serves to help obviate block the vote efforts, but is an incredibly effective way to hedge against indecisive and/or ill-motivated voters...And their effort has been showing results too. There've been lines for early voting across the country. And thank God, O's crew is so sharp and covers all bases, because the scumbag Republicans's are constantly trying to suppress voting. For instance, in Fla., they just passed laws, the Repukes did, limiting early voting. Perhaps we should practice democracy here, first, before we try spreading it to other nations. I guess he's been kicking around Chi-town for years, but I'd never heard of David Axelrod before. Obviously, an extremely crafty mofo! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1263 Registered: 08-2006 |
Oh, yeah, Axelrod is a vet of Illinois politics. And a great example of my dad's old adage, "don't f**k with a f**cker." | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1265 Registered: 08-2006 |
No surprise here, but for thems with access to the New York Times Web site, here's their endorsement of Obama today. Nicely done, as usual. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/24/opinio n/24fri1.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1794 Registered: 03-2005 |
That's quite a long and comprehensive endorsement and they get around their earlier endorsement of HRC. I think it was the beginning of this week that I read the Houston Chronicle's endorsement--Houston! At the end of the column they essentially said it wasn't even a close call. Their big objection is Palin. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2389 Registered: 05-2005 |
David Axelrod is also a great musician/producer/arranger! (Yeah, I know it's a different guy. I once interviewed the musician DA and he was one of the nicest people I ever interviewed. I only needed a few quotes for him to beef up another piece but he just didn't want to stop talking and we ended up on the phone for an hour). | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2393 Registered: 05-2005 |
Here's my prediction for the remaining nine days - the Republicans realise the jig is up and start pouring what little is left in their kitty into a forlorn effort to shore up some senate seats and congress seats. Throwing good money after bad into the McCain campign is pointless at this stage. Also, watch how quickly after Nov 4 senior Republicans start to blame Palin for almost all their woes. They'll give McCain a kick too. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1301 Registered: 01-2005 |
I hope the newly registered voters turn out in mass, as they are supporting Obama 2 to 1. The national polls are tightening up a bit, but as long as Obama stays ahead in all the 2004 Kerry states including Pennsylvania (which McCain is targeting) and picks up Virginia, North Carolina, Ohio, or Florida, he will win. He can also hold the Kerry states and pick off New Mexico and Colorado and win. He has lots of paths for the win, but McCain has very few paths. Pundits are saying Dems to pick up 24 to 28 seats and congress and get close if not hit 60 in senate. If they hit 61 in the senate, then it's bye-bye Joe Liberman and your chairman of the Homeland Security and Government Affairs Committee post. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 456 Registered: 02-2008 |
This is pretty scary, but still not reason enough to vote for McCain: http://www.theonion.com/content/opinion/ a_vote_for_my_husband_is_a_vote | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 465 Registered: 02-2008 |
More dispiriting news. Since the gun-lovin' contigent thinks Obama is likely to crack down on their gun "rights" (not true, btw), there's been a run on gun shops. They're buying up assault rifles like they're going out of style! And here's another story about the same phenomenon. Note the squirrel the guys' holding. That's some fine eating there! http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/el ection2008/2008-10-30-gun-ceo-ousted_N.h tm | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2685 Registered: 05-2005 |
McCain will get in, it'll be a fix. I got my cynical head on. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2403 Registered: 05-2005 |
What kind of w*nker needs a telescopic rifle to shoot a squirrel? What a tool. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2404 Registered: 05-2005 |
America, you are four days from a new dawn. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1273 Registered: 08-2006 |
Lots of us couldn't be happier about that, Padraig. The remainder, apparently, is buying armaments. Seriously - and not to be too sentimental about this - if Obama wins this, I'm gonna melt into the floor. I've only voted for one successful presidential candidate (Clinton) and I've never seen my first choice from the start of the primaries carry on to the White House. I've worked in politics and am an avid student of government and the political process, and this is without question the biggest political-related event in my lifetime (not to mention my life). Here in Chicago, we just lost the masterful Stud Terkel yesterday. As Studs himself would undoubtedly agree, Obama is a fine and worthy replacement. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 469 Registered: 02-2008 |
From youse guys' mouths to God's ear... Seriously, not just the USA - it'll be a new dawn for de whole wide world! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2406 Registered: 05-2005 |
World, you are three days from a new dawn. Rob, I felt like that about the Australian election a year ago, and that turned out pretty sweet! | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1302 Registered: 01-2005 |
Two more days and the revolting Reagan Revolution will be a finished chapter, bound for the history books. The RR mantra of a free market, self regulating economy with little to no government oversight will be a thing of the past. That's a good thing for the average citizen. It will be a interesting time for the Republican party in the next two years to say the lease. Will they try and reinvent themselves and open up the tent to try and appeal to moderates of their party as well as independents? Or will they promote Sarah Palin as their fiqurehead and appeal only to their ever shrinking base and hope that Obama and the Dems screw up big time? Time will tell, but I hope it's the former for the better of our country, as I would like to see more moderate Republicans vault to the top of their party, but I doubt it will happen. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1805 Registered: 03-2005 |
The bitch is that we'll have to live like the Brits did after WWII. The accumulated debt from the Reagan Revolution plus this current run of "solve a debt problem with more debt" will absolutely tie our hands. One of the worst crimes of the Reagan Revolution was the institution of this bizarre idea that taxes for our government are somehow levies by a foreign agency. Obama will need to educate people to the obvious fact that taxes pay for OUR public services. We haven't been paying our way and, well, that party's run its course. On the subject of taxes, the first thing Obama should do is slap a $4 per gallon tax on gas. I'm not joking. If he has to phase it in $1 per year, fine, but do it and have it up to $4 by the end of his term. This is the same thing every country without its own oil does and we should have started it during Ronnie's reign. It may also be necessary to borrow a page from the French and the Italians and put a honking annual tax on automobiles with engines above a certain displacement, say 3 liters. The Italians impose it at 2 liters and it's such a high tax that even Ferrari used to build 2 liter models for the home market for its rich customers. The government needs the money to pay the debts and Americans need to get out of irrational vehicles pronto to cut the trade imbalance and greenhouse gas emissions. And some of that money will need to go into building trains and subways. The Feds need to enact some quick serious incentives to get folks out here in the Southwest to install solar panels. If we do that in a serious way, our power generation will become very cheap and have virtually NO carbon footprint. I live in sunny country. I don't think Obama has to abandon his health care initiative. In fact he has to go further. EVERY study ever done clearly shows that single payer national health care is much cheaper to the total economy than the current US system. That's where Obama needs to go. Just like with the tax issue he will first have to educate the population lied to for so many years by the Republicans. And no, doctors will not live like kings anymore. They'll live perfectly reasonably like Jerry Hann and maybe they'll rediscover the spirit of service that underlies the Hippocratic Oath. The Reagan Revolution's "Greed is Good" ethos has led us to virtual dissolution. I hope the Republicans go the way of the Whigs. | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 192 Registered: 05-2005 |
An excellent editorial from the New Yorker endorsing Obama. A quite brilliant summary of the wreckage the Bush years has inflicted on the US and it's global reputation and why Obama offers the best hope of getting the country back on the right track: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov /02/elections-obama-mccain-yorker-democr ats | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 476 Registered: 02-2008 |
36 or so hours till the first polls close. I think I's going to be lamenting not voting early, dammit, when I see the lines! Here's hoping we see the last of the tawdry Ms. Palin. Please go back to whatever rock you crawled out from under in Alaska, lady. Barack and Biden talk a lot about our "better angels". Well, she IS the worser angel, in the flesh... Pretty exciting stuff, though. Thing is, I'm too big a political junkie to quit and I'll have to go cold turkey after tomorrow. Maybe I can find some kind of 12-step group... | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2698 Registered: 05-2005 |
lookin forward to stayin up tomorrow evening, with a little red bottle, then hopefully, i can cue the springsteen album... | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 477 Registered: 02-2008 |
Awlright, Spence! Come on up for the rising... Keep your eye on Virginia...they used to sell turkeys here with a little flag that would pop up when they were done. Virginia's the little flag in McCain's arse. When it pops up - that is, if Obama carries it, McCain's goose is cooked! | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1277 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'm pretty damned excited. I opted against going to the Obama rally - historic though it will be - in favor of geeking out with my laptop and CNN at my neighborhood bar. Obviously, the presidential race is the main attraction, and it'd be great to rub elbows with a few hundred thousand of my fellow Chicagoans, but there are so many great House and Senate races, I gotta have a hotspot to track the blue tide all night. Plus, there's beer. Bring it on! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2704 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ewan man! Am on that jet plane, flyin the 'bamo' flag high high high!!!!!! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! OBAMA! | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 481 Registered: 02-2008 |
Shit Rob, you oughta go to the big rally. It's, for once, real history, not the usual bs people talk about, like I dunno, the super bowl, or who holds the world hot-dog eating record. The first 16 U.S. presidents could've OWNED Obama, now he's going to be prez. This is some momentous shit, my friend. Go to the rally and be our humble correspondent, so we can live vicariously through you. You owe it to your public! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2415 Registered: 05-2005 |
I read today that there is 110 year old woman voting in Texas whose father was a slave. My mind boggles at what Obama's victory is going to mean to her. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1279 Registered: 08-2006 |
I've been back and forth on the rally thing for days, ETM. I still might pack up and go in the late afternoon. It's supposed to be 72 here lovely - remarkable for November in Chicago - so it wouldn't be bad night to watch history unfold. The big "but" is just the sheer size of expected crowd. Hanging with 70,000 people in Grant park is a clusterf--k. Hanging with 750,000 or a million? It's a nightmare. That said, I've got my now-ancient Canon AE1 locked and loaded and a digital recorded packed up. Might go down and do me a little journalism. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1280 Registered: 08-2006 |
Man, lots of typos in the above. I gotta go decaf. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 1808 Registered: 03-2005 |
Go to the rally, Rob. You'll regret it forever if you don't. There are Senate and House races every two years. Go. This is once only. | ||
| Ewan Talisker McEwan Member Username: Ewan_mcewan Post Number: 484 Registered: 02-2008 |
All I can say is: +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++++#######+++++++++++++++++ +++++++++++############+++++++++++++++ ++++++++++###############+++++++++++++ +++++++++#####++++++++###++++++++++++ ++++++++###++++++++++++###+++++++++++ ++++++++##++++++++++++++###++++++++++ +++++++##+++++++++++++++####+++++++++ +++++++#+++++++++++++++++###+++++++++ ++++++##+++++++++++++++++####++++++++ ++++++#+++++++++++++++##++@##++++++++ +++++##++++++++++++############+++++++&# 65533; +++++##++++++++#+++##+####+####+++++++ +++++##++++#####+++#++#####+####++++++&# 65533; +++++##+++##+###+++#+++****++####+++++&# 65533; +++++##+++++#++#+++#+++++++++##++++++ +++++##++++@++++++++#+++++++##+#+++++ +++++#+++++++++++++++#++++++##+#+++++ ++++++#+++++++++++++#++++++####++++++ ++++++##+++++++++++####++++####++++++ ++++++++++++++++@#+###++++++####+++++ +++++##+#+++++++++++++++++++##+#+++++ +++++#++++++++++++++##++++++####+++++ +++++#+@++ ++++++++######++++##+++++++ +++++#+#+#+++++++##+++#+++++##+++++++ ++++++#++#++++++##+++###++++##+++++++ +++++++#++++++++++++++++++#####++++++ +++++++++#+++++++++++#++++#####++++++ +++++++++++#+++++++++++++############+ ++++++++++++#+++++++++++#############+ +++++++++++++#++++++++###############+ ++++++++++++++##++++########+########+ +++++++++++++#++###########++########+ +++++++++++###+++#########++#########+ ++++++++#######++++######+++#########+ ++++++#########+++++++##++++#########+ +++++##########+++++###++++##########+ +++############+++++#++++++##########+ ++##############++++#++++++##########+ ++##############++++++++++###########+ +###############++++++++++###########+ +############### ++++ +++++###########+ +###############++++++#++############+ +################+++++#++############+ | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 2717 Registered: 05-2005 |
Ewan, God dammit brother! I was thinking, how can i draw what you have just posted!! Its greeeeeeeeeeeaaaaat!! lets roll out the tee shirts!!!! | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 551 Registered: 07-2006 |
...it would seem so =DDDDD |