| Author | Message | ||
     Hugo Member Username: Hugo Post Number: 1 Registered: 06-2005 |
Usually it's when Grant falls into bland cliché, or when Robert tries too hard to be wacky. OK, I'll set the ball rolling with this clunking effort from Robert: "There was a rumour Pavarotti would sing there To raise funds for a music school but then the whole thing vanished into thin air" | ||
| gareth w Member Username: Gareth Post Number: 17 Registered: 05-2005 |
From the same album, "he's got a relationship with a woman he met in an Irish joint" has always ruined an otherwise excellent song for me. Some of Robert's rhymes could do with a bit more work at times. I wonder if either songwriter ever feels the need to criticise the other's work or if they just respect whatever the other brings to the table... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 103 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ok, so I take it we can't draw from solo records, right? Robert had a few embarrassments on "Country Phone," e.g. "Beyond Their Law" has great music but c'mon, the lyrics? How about all of "This Night's for You?" I can picture it: Grant had this piece of radio-friendly pop rolling around in his head for a while and he was waiting for the lyrical idea to finish it when Robert rang up and said "hurry up Grant, we need your fifth! Just scribble something and be done with it!" "Okay Robert! Let's see, I've got 'I follow footprints to the edge of the moon.' Now what? Hmmm. Okay, how about 'while the silver moves around the room; your sister says "the ship is sailing soon;" cries and whispers from the red lagoon.' How's that, Robert?" "Yeah, yeah, great. See you tomorrow." | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 131 Registered: 09-2004 |
A bit harsh, Randy, but I know what you mean. I always give Grant the benefit of the doubt on songs like "This NIght's For You" and assume there's a logic working in the lyrics somewhere that I fail to see, or some deeper, profounder, personal meaning; maybe I'm being too kind. But really, we should be discussing the best Go-Bs lyrics first. | ||
| M.J.L. Member Username: Mjl Post Number: 15 Registered: 09-2005 |
No, please, with all due respect to Grant and Robert, I really like this 'worst lyrics' thread. There's enough kindness everywhere else on this board, much too much; what's a little chiding? 'The Clock's "Why when you come here does the rainbow turn black?" seems clumsy, especially ham-fisted to me. | ||
| M. Mark Burgess Member Username: Fortysomething Post Number: 41 Registered: 05-2005 |
Some of the lyrics on Grant's solo albums are atrocious, especially Fireboy. It almost seems like a few of them were done on purpose, at least I hope so. | ||
| Duncan Hurwood Member Username: Duncan_h Post Number: 25 Registered: 05-2005 |
The ones about the "brand new toaster" has to be the worst of all. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 93 Registered: 04-2005 |
Rather than single out individual lines, I'll just nominate "Eight Pictures" as the worst GoBs lyric in its entirety. Good thing that Robert got that sort of Violent Femmes-like creepy male stalker thing out of his system quickly. Grant and Robert do sometimes tend to pepper otherwise graceful lyrics with clunky lines, but I find they often work as odd hooks. I never quite get used to hearing lines like "right here's for me" or "your hands are tired/your eyes are blue" but I'm not sure I'd call them bad lyrics, per se. | ||
| fsh Member Username: Fsh Post Number: 56 Registered: 05-2005 |
~Eight Picture is an absolute classic, lyrically and musically. The song absolutely fascinated me when I first heard it in 1986 and stuck with me long after. So my advice to Kurt is "embrace your creepy male stalker" side, while dancing around the log fire in you cacks this Christmas. | ||
| Alfie Member Username: Alfie Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2005 |
[quote="Hugo"]Usually it's when Grant falls into bland cliché, or when Robert tries too hard to be wacky. OK, I'll set the ball rolling with this clunking effort from Robert: "There was a rumour Pavarotti would sing there To raise funds for a music school but then the whole thing vanished into thin air"[/quote] But I love that song... The whole album is absolutely capital for that matter ! | ||
| Stephen Harris Member Username: Smh Post Number: 16 Registered: 05-2005 |
I can't think of a bad lyric from Robert although I find it hard to sing along with "as I breathe your deadly wind" | ||
| fsh Member Username: Fsh Post Number: 59 Registered: 05-2005 |
Do you reckon Robert was referring to a flatulence problem there Stephen? | ||
| M.J.L. Member Username: Mjl Post Number: 22 Registered: 09-2005 |
But that's a great line. | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 1 Registered: 01-2006 |
GM's lyrics span the range from powerful to embarassing. At his best he writes either cosmic/mystical stuff, often about the Australian landscape (Cattle and Cane) or moving reflections on love. This from Quiet Heart. "The heater is on the windows are thin I'm trying hard to keep this warmth in. This is brilliant use of image and metaphor by anyone's standards. So it's hard to reconcile this with the drivel sometimes found on solo albums. Fireboy is notorious and it's not just that "brand new toaster". Try this from "A million miles". "It's a front porch thing some cool lemonade and chilli all around - yeah! and I hi hi hi hi... Truly unspeakable, wise perhaps that the Fireboy sleeve comes without lyric sheet... | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 3 Registered: 01-2006 |
Now I think of it, GM has supplied us with some true shockers over the years. How about the character who "liked his eggs over fried" - an especially lame rhyme in Getting the Wheels Back On from Watershed. I'm not a great fan of The Pawnbroker either "struggling with diesel" comes across as sub Tom Waits hobo schtick. Any others? | ||
| surfingmagazines Member Username: Surfingmagazines Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2005 |
Personally, I think the Dostoevsky line from Here Comes A City is cringeworthy... | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 119 Registered: 04-2005 |
I think it's intentionally cringeworthy, though. Most of Robert's clunky lines seem really deliberate--as in "I know how this sounds to you--but it's funny to me." Grant's bad lyrics are sincere, I fear. | ||
| Panda Member Username: Panda Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 |
"The traffic lights on the streets of love have just turned red - turned red." "The little sister gets her period blood - the flood of love, the flood of love." "I got myself a mortgage, it didn't save the marriage, we weren't insured - insured against breakage." And I finally just deleted "Cut It Out" from my GB's playlist. I love them. Hello, by the way. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 27 Registered: 04-2005 |
Hey Panda, 3 of my favourite G-B's lyrics. Takes it all sorts I guess...although agree with you there on 'Cut It Out'... | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 56 Registered: 05-2005 |
Panda and Andrew, I do really like the Clark Sisters. One of the weirdest songs I've ever heard. And that line about the flood of love used to crack me up quite a bit. I can't believe he wrote it and sang it. I've no doubt these ladies existed in Robert's life. Great picture he paints. Another one that some might find embarrassing but I actually like quite a bit is: "Her father works in exports but that's of no importance at all" from Head Full Of Steam. I still chuckle to myself even after hearing it for 15 years. | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 131 Registered: 08-2004 |
The Clarke Sisters is one of RF's finest. The line you mention IMHO is exceptionally good, just because it may be a subject people are uncomfortable with doesn't mean it shouldn't be mentioned in song. It's also the way he sings the line, together with the arrangement, I presume by Amanda. It's quite eery, one of the most mysterious songs by The G-B'S. A personal favourite. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 143 Registered: 05-2005 |
I love The Clarke Sisters too. I initially only had it on a cassette copied from another cassette so the quality was not great and, until I finally got it on CD, I thought that line was "The little sister gets her period blood - the slut of love, the slut of love." I found that very uncomfortable and harsh listening. So I was relieved when I found out what it actually said! | ||
| Matt Ellis Member Username: Matt_ellis Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 |
Surfing Magazines - Your obviously not a wearer of a Dostoevsky lyric T-shirt which were sold at the European gigs last year..one of which I happen to be wearing tonight! I totally agree with 'Chilli all around - yeah' 'Not ensured against breakage' 'Brand new Toaster' They were in my mind before I read others comments :-) On the subject of Grant's lyrics I would one day love to read an academic English Literature style critique on 'The Wrong Road' one of my favourite ever songs. To me the lyrics initially seem bizarre but seem to make some kind of weird sense, and conjure up very clear imagery - something which Grant does so well. | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 4 Registered: 01-2006 |
"The rain hit the roof with the sound of a finished kiss". one of the classic GB lines | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 115 Registered: 11-2004 |
A lot of people don't like 'Cut It Out,'members of the Go-Betweens included. The recorded version is quite tame - that's its problem. The song has a lot more vibrancy and urgency live. The lyrics are alright, considering it is a B-side after all. | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 5 Registered: 01-2006 |
I do have some reservations about the words on Oceans Apart. If I were a member of RF's family I'd find the references to himself as a "Golden Boy" and them as "Honest workers" a little patronising. Lavender too I'm unsure about; "Lavender" sings RF "It's her scent" hmmmm... The best lyrics on OA are Darlinghurst Nights, Boundary Rider (in particular) and No Reason To Cry. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 65 Registered: 05-2005 |
as ever, I'm sure the 'golden boy' and 'honest workers' were written with tongue placed firmly upon his cheek! the funniest lyrics are the best for me sometimes, for instance: "Kurt Cobain, I thought what a shame it wasn't about, Tom Verlaine!" I mean getting your hero in the song is amazing but full marks for getting the grungemeister in there too! RF is really an amazing lyricist. One of my faves is off Danger in the past, "my love and I sit in bed in the dark, is it Townes Van Zandt, or is it Guy Clark! The more I listen to Robert, Grant and The Go Betweens, the more they become to me what the Velvets were to friends of mine who are a generation older than me. I think I really do love everything they have ever done, save for Cut It Out, that version is really so, so crap its unbelievable. I cringe everytime the track comes on. I mean the only slight criticism I would have of the GB's is Lindy Morrison's drumming, . A lot of the time it felt to me pretty souless. I don't think the songs really suffered for it though. However, Ringo was not technically very good, but he made all the right noises, did he not!? I'm sure people will disagree with my Lindy comment, problem is, is that my style of drummer is more Thomas Wylder (Cave), Glenn Thompson, John Langley (Strangelove Blue Aeroplanes), Ron torrance (Josef K), Bonham type thing going on, oh dear!! | ||
| gareth w Member Username: Gareth Post Number: 26 Registered: 05-2005 |
Despite some of Robert's clunky lines he's done some really great ones too - Spence mentions them above. The '...Verlaine' lyric is a peach. 'Every man for the rest of your life will be less than me' is about as good as it gets. Read it and weep, Mr. Dylan. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 125 Registered: 04-2005 |
Well, you knew somebody was going to comment on the Lindy remarks, right, Spence? When you say "soulless," do you mean all the albums or particular ones? Because I'd agree with that description on the albums dominated by programmed drums (SHF, Tallulah, 16LL), but certainly not on the ones featuring Lindy playing her kit (SMAL, BH, Liberty Belle). I think her live drumming has great character--the drum rolls on "Spring Rain," "That Way," etc., are significant hooks in the songs, not just timekeeping. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 66 Registered: 05-2005 |
True, can't argue with that. Clare Moore's drumming on Dave Graney's Moodists and associaited over the years have uncannily resembled Lindy era GB's in places (uncanny that having a female drummer in a sinilar Oz style group!) In fact Clare's drumming on New York Girlfriend is exactly what drumming should be, live and exciting. No offence to Lindy by the way, just my viewpoint, I do think the GB's would not have been what they are without her (and Vickers) | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 132 Registered: 08-2004 |
Bad drumming really does stand out. More so than any other instrument. If the drumming isn't great then IMHO the band is not worth listening to. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 150 Registered: 03-2005 |
Was Mo Tucker a "bad" drummer? At the time, many people thought she was. Nowadays, I suspect most of us view her differently. I know I do. One of my personal dislikes is Rock God playing. I don't need the players to be great. It will always be what they are playing that matters to me. A lot of technical proficiency without any real textual or musical meaning gets your CD into my reject pile. IMHO. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 67 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm pretty sure I don't like Rock God drumming. Twisted Sister or WASP, nah!! I mean if people can go on about great guitarists take Verlaine for example, and go on about him being outstanding, for his feel rather than his technical ability (Richard Lloyd is by far a better technician) then the same applies in my book to drummers, and bass players and whoever else. I'm not saying its the be all and end all to have a great drummer, I just think it helps. The feel is the key, but technique is a lot in a band, especially the drums. I tend to agree with the line you are only as good as your drummer. Unless you are The Proclaimers. You don't have to be Neil Peart to be exciting. Although Rush would have been shite I guess had they had Ringo or Mo on board!! (Not saying I like Rush by the way), and Velvets would have been shote had they had Neil Peart on board!!!!! | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 133 Registered: 08-2004 |
Mo Tucker, Karen Carpenter*, Lindy Morrison, Meg White. We have been blessed. All greats for me. * Delete as you wish | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 6 Registered: 01-2006 |
I suppose rock and pop has never really been about technical profiency; more about the musical and aesthetic vision. No one more so perhaps than the GoBs. Was listening to The House that Jack Keruac built and realised just what a clever contruction that song is. "Strange Rock and Roll" indeed. Not sure about "Tallulah took a shower for an hour" though! or "Your make up needs a shakeup". Perhaps as has been suggested they're deliberately clunky.. | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 7 Registered: 01-2006 |
or "I'm trapped in my house, on first name terms with its mouse.".. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 126 Registered: 04-2005 |
Jerry, I have to add Yo La Tengo's Georgia Hubley (really underrated; I've seen her do uncanny James Brown funk beats live) and Sleater-Kinney's Janet Weiss to your list. But of all the woman drummers you name, I think Lindy has the most unique, distinctive style. One additional thought on the "technical proficiency" issue--it's my theory that many (most?) bands get less interesting as they get more technically proficient because they become much more conventional in their arrangements and song structures. To me, Roxy Music is the classic example...and honestly, the Go-Betweens (esp. Grant) are another. Compare "Cattle and Cane" (which has a fascinating, odd structure that always sounds fresh to me) to the by-the-numbers music of "Boundary Rider." | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 69 Registered: 05-2005 |
All fair comments, agree with you all. This case is closed! | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2006 |
Bands I agree can get less interesting and original as they get older although I think there are other reasons than becoming better musicians; running out of things to say, middle aged lifestyles etc. To my mind the GoBs have avoided this ennui and produce interesting records - in fact the lyric to Boundary Rider (a great song by the way) shows how they still strive. "So you reach for things you're never satisfied You're running down the years". I also think Robert and Grant's greater musical profiency has made them a much better live act, reintepreting older songs and coming up with interesting arrangements. | ||
| Per Stam Member Username: Matsrep Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2005 |
Hey Donat, Cut It Out was an A-side even. Potential hit, someone thought. 12", 7" you name it. But true, somewhere I've heard an OK live version... Donat: A lot of people don't like 'Cut It Out,'members of the Go-Betweens included. The recorded version is quite tame - that's its problem. The song has a lot more vibrancy and urgency live. The lyrics are alright, considering it is a B-side after all. | ||
| Alex Bolton Member Username: Alexb Post Number: 9 Registered: 01-2006 |
I've always thought Cut It Out was a pretty cruel lyric; was this why the band didn't like it? I hope GM wasn't singing about Amanda. | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 118 Registered: 11-2004 |
Oh yeah, it was a single! Ouch haha | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 88 Registered: 03-2006 |
I just noticed this howler from "Something for Myself": Want to get out of Folk and get into Rare Groove Also, the Frank Brunetti/Spaghetti couplet is a real clunker, and takes you out of the song, which I still like anyway. The line "Always the traffic, always the lights" is a classic example of RF's evocative poetic chops.... | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 91 Registered: 03-2006 |
And for balance, one of my favorite lyrics, that almost sums up the whole GBs worldview, for me: "I've got a feeling, sounds like a fact". | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 184 Registered: 04-2005 |
That's a great line, Hardin. And it's the one that (for better or worse) hooked Christgau on the group...he rarely fails to quote it when writing about the GoBs. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 97 Registered: 03-2006 |
It's classic and, to me, marks their ascension into the ranks of really interesting songwriters with fresh things to say.. The other classic, the "finished kiss" line quoted above, is another great one...no idea what the hell it means particularly, but gosh dangit, sure sounds like poetry! | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 284 Registered: 03-2006 |
I love Baby Stones, think it works, but listening to it the other day, I noticed it has some howlingly funny, clunky lines...Of course, I can't remember them verbatim and couldn't find lyrics on the Internet(s), but the gist of them is: "if you want to pursue other things, please do so in the context of our relationship"...it basically sounds like bad Dr. Phil marriage advice, translated into German, then back into English... Oddly enough though, the whole Dylanesque feel of the song and RF's impassioned singing completely rescue it from infamy...I think it's great. | ||
| David Matheson Member Username: David_matheson Post Number: 88 Registered: 12-2004 |
Hardin, I think Baby Stones is more a case of "if you want to pursue other things, it will be the end our relationship". Part of the lyrics go: You say you want to take a lover Although you're satisfied with me We have to broaden our horizons My love, we can But you'll do it without me I also think it is a great song. Don't think I've come across any other song that addresses this aspect of relationships. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 6 Registered: 09-2006 |
The line that always makes me roll my eyes in that one is where he caps his perfectly reasonable objections to her taking another lover with "Every man for the rest of your life will be less than me." I'm not sure I'd call it a bad line in context though, being that one of the many aspects of RF's lyrical persona has been that of a pompous ass...what I've always been uncertain of is if he does that to deliberately give his protagonists more depth (the warts and all thing) or if he's in dead earnest. I'd say that I like the line more if it's the former. In the RF/GM poll, I'd definitely say I'm a Forster man...such a multifaceted fellow. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 128 Registered: 05-2005 |
Allen, It's interesting how others take a certain line and think of it so differently. That line is what drew me to that song and made it one of my favorites. To me, I think the character in the song is giving his knee-jerk reaction. He's desperate, pathetic really. The girl is comfortable with the situation and wants the narrator to accept her infidelity and remain with her. He's helpless and just spewing. He wants her to stay, she's such a worthwhile need. Coupled with the "less than me" line, the guy's just ranting. It's hysterical to me. That RF's charm at work. He writes a song about this pathetic guy who is whipped and isn't going to get out of the relationship on his own and somehow manages to make me care about him or at least enjoy the song. What do you think Keith? | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 761 Registered: 03-2006 |
I'm with you, MT - I think it's false bravado. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 15 Registered: 09-2006 |
To be honest, as I've been thinking over the past week since making my post I've been leaning more toward that interpretation, which actually also fits in with what I was saying...it captures every part of his reaction, not just the parts that make him look horribly wronged. Then again, I was also thinking you could take that line as an indicator that the guy's always been a self-important boob and the only reason she's proposing having another lover is to spur him to give her an ultimatum so that she can walk out the door  | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 568 Registered: 05-2005 |
I think he is deadly in earnest Allen. Haven't we all thought that at some point? | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 130 Registered: 05-2005 |
good point, Padraig. maybe my foolish pride clouded my connection to the pratt. hehe. let's face it we all want to believe were our ladies' best lover ever! | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 767 Registered: 03-2006 |
It seems like a bluff that is easily called. The woman's easy rejoinder would be, "Oh yeah, Jack? I don't NEED to wait the rest of my life. I got a dude waiting in the wings that's MORE!"... | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 596 Registered: 04-2005 |
I'm going to be a latecomer to the discussion about GM's "Fireboy" songs. I finally heard that album in its entirety recently--it's the one album of his I'd missed--and I have to say, with no disrespect of his memory intended--that Grant really was not in top form with that batch of songs--nearly every track has a lyric that jumps out as clumsy, mawkish, condescending, or something. The "chili all around - yeah!" and "brand new toaster" lines are bad, yes, but the one that would be my nominee as worst is "take a tip from me, bathe in the water of love," which is just self-congratulatory and (to use a sophisticated critical term) icky. However, Grant recovered from this affliction and wrote winner after winner on "Horsebreak" and "Bright Ray," so obviously "Fireboy" was just a short-term slump. There are good ideas on the album--he'd obviously been wounded in love...Amanda?--but the songs just aren't there. | ||
| Tim Member Username: Timmybear Post Number: 1 Registered: 08-2009 |
I used to hope that 'The House That Jack Kerouac Built' was disliked by me because of the recorded version. However, having heard a few live versions, I still cringe at the whole thing, music and lyrics, though the line about 'giving you pleasure in the stalls' particularly irks me. | ||
| muddster Unregistered guest |
I know you've been seeing your boyfriend the actor. Sometimes I want to run over him with a great big tractor. But I know with the price of fuel I'd sure look like a fool... And I already have a middle name. |