| Author | Message | ||
     Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4439 Registered: 05-2005 |
My hi-fi amp gave up the ghost last night. The red light on the front just keeps blinking and no sound comes out regardless of whether I'm playing a CD or putting a DVD through it (I haven't checked vinyl, but I'm sure it would be the same story). It's a good quality Denon and it's eight years old. Is that a bit soon for an amp to go, even one used for several hours most days over eight years? I'm going to buy a new one tomorrow. Any suggestions in the reasonably priced, but good quality category? Thanks fellas. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2392 Registered: 10-2004 |
Padraig, do you have any hi-fi repair shops near you? Where I lived in the US there was a really good, reliable shop where I could take ailing stereo components. I always try to see if things are fixable before replacing them. Yes, that does sound far too early for a piece of gear to go bad. I have stuff from the 70s that's never had to be taken in for repairs, but then, they don't make stuff like they used to. Plus, "planned obsolescence" is a real phenomenon. Except for my CD recorder, none of my stereo components were made after 1990, so I'm useless when it comes to making recommendations for new hi-fi gear. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4442 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks Jeff. There isn't any place near me, so I think I will just buy a new one. It's a pain being without music through a proper hi-fi for even one night, so I don't think I have the patience to seek out a repair shop, take it there and hope for the best. The CD player I use is 20 years old, so I assumed at first that was what was gone, but not so. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1697 Registered: 10-2008 |
Seems a bit early for it to go Padraig, especially a piece of kit with no moving parts like a CD player for example. If you really like the sound it produces I would go for the fix, I'm no expert, but if you get it fixed it it should be good for at least another 8 years!. Firstly though it might be worth switching all your kit off, disconnect the speakers and then power up everything, reconnect speakers last. It might work, you never know. It might also be worth checking the manual for a system reset procedure. If you go for a replacement I would recommend Arcam. I don't know what price range you are in, but my Arcam A19 cost £450 which is reasonable for good quality kit. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1698 Registered: 10-2008 |
Actually, its an A18, not A19 - Doh! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2393 Registered: 10-2004 |
Padraig, have you tried giving it a good whack? Sometimes that actually works! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4444 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks lads. I have tried turning it off and on, to little effect (there was a millisecond of sound, then it went again), but I haven't tried plugging everything out and reconnecting the speakers last. I will try that. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 959 Registered: 04-2006 |
padraig, i can't give you any advice regarding fixing hifi-components and i neither can give you any expert-tip regarding any hifi-amp. it's a matter of taste (sound - and in this connection the most important thing is thatthe amp fits to the speakers-, design) and a question of the money you will/can spend. i always loved this british ''understatement'' i.e. small, not so much watt and just a few buttons. it's the second time i have rotel products (my first rotel components were sell-offs, inbetween i also had an big fat denon amp). very good quality for an acceptable price, but i am not up-to-date. if you can not fix your amplifier, i should pack the boxes and drive to the next hifi-dealer, if i were you. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1699 Registered: 10-2008 |
Sounds to me like something could be "shorting" - its like a protection system that is inbuilt to the amp. If something like speaker connection, or any other components wires are causing the "short" then unplugging and replugging should fix it- just make sure that no wires are tangled up and interfering with any other component. From what you are describing Padraig, it might only be 50/50 that there is something seriously wrong. But without seeing it for myself its hard to say for sure. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2911 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wish I could help Padraig but like Jeff I use ancient components from the late '70s/early '80s (McIntosh) except for the CD player. I've been through quite a few CD players and I'm really impressed you've managed to get 20 years from yours. Have you done a Google search for hi fi repair people in Sydney? You might find somebody is closer than you think. Kevin's idea that some wires might have gotten crossed is a good one to check out. Crossed speaker wires will trip a circuit breaker or whatever protective device modern components use. Andreas, I agree about the merit of understatement in sound equipment. Spend the money where it needs to be and eschew the flashy stuff. I haven't looked at new equipment in so long I didn't even realize the British were still making anything. I love my rumbly but indestructible 1960 Garrard and Wharfedale made some great speakers. Think I'll go read about Rotel. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1700 Registered: 10-2008 |
My first "serious" hifi back in the 80's was Rotel. It was an amp and receiver built into a cabinet, it wasn't mega expensive but I don't think it was a budget system either - my Grandmother bought it for me. I loved the sound of it back then. My foray into "really serious" hifi in the mid 90's was also Rotel. CD player, amps (pre and power), even amp for turtable. I never took to the sound it produced, too "bright" for my tastes, although thats probably nit picking. To most people it probably sounded amazing. Thats when I graduated to Arcam, which is more warm sounding, less "in your face". I have stuck with them for 15 years. Rotel are a great brand though, too many hi fi enthusiasts say so for it to be anything other than the case. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 963 Registered: 04-2006 |
i searched for kevin's arcam amp on the web. it seems a real great amp. i also looked on the rotel website. my amp isn't available anymore (RA-03). the follower is RA-06 SE, but it seems that this production series is only available in europe. | ||
| Hugh Nimmo Member Username: Hugh_nimmo Post Number: 366 Registered: 03-2007 |
Padraig, if what Kevin has recommended does not work then it might be worth checking to see if you have any blown fuses in the unit. Randy, we still design and manufacture hi-fi equipment here in the U.K. but it is invariably mid to high range and comes at a price ( Linn, Naim and Quad are some examples of the high end. ) More affordable, but still expensive, are products manufactured by Arcam, Creek and Cyrus. I have two set-ups in my home ( one downstairs and one in the loft ) both of which are powered by Cyrus III Integrated Amplifiers / PSX-R Regulated Power Supplies which I purchased in the late 1980s/early 1990s. One of the reasons I like companies such as Cyrus is that there is no need to throw your equipment away if and when something goes wrong. The Company introduced their first Integrated Amplifier ( Cyrus I ) in 1984 and they will still service it today. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4445 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks for the help everyone. I did try unplugging everything and then plugging it all back in, leaving the speakers connections until last. No joy though. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4448 Registered: 05-2005 |
Bought a new amp. Sherwood. It sounds a bit odd on first play, but I played an album I'd never played before. I should have played something familiar. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1702 Registered: 10-2008 |
Never heard of Sherwood Padraig. Are they Australian - whats the model no? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2913 Registered: 03-2005 |
An old American name bought by the Koreans. Hopefully not the R904N which got trashed in thorough detail on amazon.com | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4450 Registered: 05-2005 |
Not that model Randy (phew). My Sherwood was made in Sherwood Forest in the English midlands by elves descendant from Robin Hood, while the Sheriff of Nottingham looked on sternly. Or so I assumed. Possibly it was made in Korea using by not elves an old US name. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4451 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kevin, the model number is RX-5502. It is far cheaper in the US (as I've just discovered in a google search) than it is in Australia. I got the last one they had left so they threw in an iPod connection with it. The google search has also shown me that the RX-5502 is reasonably well thought of though. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1703 Registered: 10-2008 |
Padraig, I saw an article where 58 users gave it an average of 8 out of 10 - sounds like a winner at a very reasonable price. Hopefully its not still sounding "odd". And remember amps will take a while to "warm up" to their maximum sound qulaity. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1650 Registered: 08-2006 |
Padraig, I feel your pain. I've lived for a long time with a bunch of old audio equipment - a 22-year old Onkyo single-disc CD player, a Denon amp I bought in '94 and a pair of 90s-vintage Advent Baby bookshelf speakers whose cones pretty much gave up their ghosts during a rambunctious New Year's party last year. Finally got around to replacing the Advents this week after finally getting tired of the occasional "blat" sound blown speakers make when they're pushed too hard. Picked up a pair of Monitor Audio bookshelf units and holy crap. Music sounds good again! Spent my first night with them cycling through my CD collection and thinking I should've done this about 10 years ago. My house is vintage, with typically small rooms, so even though my diminutive new speakers make my old Baby's look huge, they just drench the space in clear, rich sound. Anyhow, part of the reason I took the plunge was this thread, so thanks for the push. Now I can just use my iPod/Apple boom box setup when I'm in the kitchen cooking, which is as it should be. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4464 Registered: 05-2005 |
Glad my misfortune helped Rob! | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1914 Registered: 10-2008 |
Bloody hell, I've fell for so many of these!!! http://sonido.uchile.cl/articulos/tenbig gestliesaudio.pdf | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2991 Registered: 03-2005 |
I've definitely fallen for the tube shibboleth, Kevin, for recording. I have a tube microphone that I use for vocals and a tube guitar amp. And from time to time I've toyed with the idea of buying a refurbished old reel to reel to use for recording individual tracks. I love them as machines and think some of them are beautiful to behold. Fortunately, my teenage memories of their enormous operational and maintenance difficulties and crap like tape print-through stays my eBay hand. I also have some vinyl but the truth is that I just like the old machines, willfully using a noisy rumbly old Garrard Type A over a quiet Thorens 160 just because of its vintage charm. Never fell for the speaker cable thing though. My speaker lines are and have always been a patchwork of odd bits of speaker wire joined together. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1918 Registered: 10-2008 |
The latest trap I fell for was the dedicated power supply, and its the first time I have ever invested in one. I recently purchased a DAC (Musical Fidelity VDac II) and read various missives that it couldn't possibly reach its full potential unless paired up with its off board partner the V PSU II power supply. I am really pleased with the sound, which is the main thing I guess, but was it worth £150 for the PSU? I guess only the folks at Musical Fidelity really know the answer to that one. I have always bought into the theory that better quality interconnects and speaker wire were essential for better quality sound, after reading that article now I am not so sure. The guy seems to back up his theories so why would he make it up? Damn!! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2994 Registered: 03-2005 |
I love good sound Kevin but I learned that if you read the hi fi rags you will never be satisfied. My older brother used to read them all. I profited by buying his discards at huge discounts. These included excellent McIntosh amp and preamp units with the build integrity of a WWII bomber and a nice 80s vintage set of ADS loudspeakers--great below but a little weak on top--which I balance for sound with a set of mid-level KEFs from the 1990s which are great on top and a little weak below. Voila, excellent sound across the range, very open thanks to four speakers instead of two and it cost me a lot less than a set of two fantastic loudspeakers. I still haven't gotten a subwoofer; that's how old school I am. In the meantime my brother got burned out on hi fi and listens on a little miniature system now! The same issues come up with recording apparatus. I'm supposed to have an electrician come in and install a dedicated balanced power line for the digital recorder. Supposedly the normal mains introduce noise. It's never going to happen. I'll spring for things that I know I'll be able to hear, like better microphones or an outboard effects unit. I'm not going for the things that only a gnat's ear will perceive. With all the distortion I willfully introduce into a recording why would I? I should spring for a new spool of speaker wire though. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1919 Registered: 10-2008 |
Randy, I did the whole hifi rag thing in the early 90s, maybe lasted a year or two. Thankfully came to my senses though and realised that these guys were probably on commission to sell you the next bright new shiny thing. I kinda did what your brother did and weaned myself of hifi and settled for a bog standard but still decent sounding mini system. This coincided with the kids getting older and wanting to commandeer the tv(which was in the same room - i figured why have a shit hot sound system you could hardly play), then as they got older they camped in their room and never used the tv so it was back to real hifi for me. Except I decided that I should decamp to the "front room" which is where the computer is. So now I have a system that I am really really happy with(till I win the lottery anyway), all Arcam components with Accousting Energy speakers. I have a great Czech built turntable(DNM), and my laptop is hooked up to my amp/speakers via the DAC and when I playback mp3's it sounds almost as good as CD/vinyl - it really is amazing, and I find myself streaming music through Spotify and swear I cannot tell the difference, again nearly as good as CD/vinyl. And all this means the wife now controls the TV, which means that we all have our own little "territories" throughout the house and hardly anybody speaks to anybody else - just joking!! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4740 Registered: 05-2005 |
That's a great article. Thanks Kevin. The only one I've really fallen for is the cable lie. Fallen for it many times in fact! The anti-digital lie is not one I've had any time for since 1996 when the In The City music conference moved from Manchester to Dublin as a once off thing. I hosted a production conference that weekend where the late Gus Dudgeon was one of the guests. When I put it to him that vinyl sounded better than CDs he shot me down in no uncertain terms, but in a way that left me utterly convinced I was wrong. I won't go into it here, but I'll gladly explain over a pint or two for anyone who wants to know! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2472 Registered: 10-2004 |
Actually, that article's "anti-digital lie" rant is a wee bit misguided. He is correct only in that some people have perceived analog to be preferable to digital because of mastering choices. In the 80s, it was common for mastering engineers to use the same master for the CD that they'd used for the LP, rather than make necessary adjustments to compensate for the differences in the two mediums. They would make certain eq choices (boosting the high end) to compensate for how the vinyl would affect the sound of the recording, and what would work find for vinyl would leave CDs sounding comparatively anemic, but just a little. Plus, he makes a total straw-man argument by claiming, "The most ludicrous manifestation of the antidigital fallacy is the preference for the obsolete LP over the CD... the clicks, crackles and pops of the vinyl over the digital data pits’ background silence, which is a perverse rejection of reality." He makes it sound like all LPs are inherently inferior because they all suffer from surface noise, which is patently untrue. I have many records that are dead silent - as quiet as a CD! This guy has a perverse take on reality. And I'm not saying that simply because of my own love for LPs - I have plenty of CDs and I have no beef with their sound quality. Yes, it's easy to screw up your vinyl, and lots of things can and do go wrong in pressing plants, but it is entirely possible to press vinyl that is clean and quiet, and then keep it that way be taking care of it properly. Furthermore, what he apparently fails to grasp is that (just like the difference between analog tape and digital recording devices) many people who prefer vinyl don't claim that there is a loss of sonic data in CDs (his primary argument, another straw man), but that the vinyl actually adds a subtle amount of harmonic distortion that lends it a "warmer" and more therefore pleasingly "musical" sound. This is why LP purists think CDs sound "clinical" or comparatively "cold." It's like this guy has never actually talked to anyone who digs vinyl! Funny. Don't get me wrong, I've never considered myself an audiophile and I've never bothered to read any of the hi-fi rags. I've honestly never had an income that would allow me to even think about buying anything other than "entry level audiophile" equipment. But the writer of this article is making a few bold assertions without even getting all of is facts straight. Some of his other points are fine, but he's basing his digital bias on incorrect info. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1921 Registered: 10-2008 |
I would play vinyl over CD every day of the week but for two reasons. 1. The cost is very prohibitive for new vinyl, approx £17 in the UK seems to be the average. When you add on shipping costs £20 is quite an outlay. 2. Vinyl needs to be almost pristine (at least to my picky ears) to be enjoyed properly, otherwise CD wins out. I played my battered 2nd hand copy of Magazines's Correct Use Of Soap tonight and it wasn't great sounding. Little keyboard or guitar parts that I know so well from CD were struggling to be heard on this vinyl copy. I cleaned it up and it performed better but still wasn't up to scratch really. I spoke to my friend earlier and he is buzzing about his new Rega Planer 3 deck which cost him £545. He was waxing lyrical about all the things that he could hear on the 1st Velvets album - can't wait to hear it when I visit him on Tuesday. Does anybody have any DIY vinyl cleaning remedies that are fairly basic and do the job? eg a remedy that doesnt involve buying all kinds of potions. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2473 Registered: 10-2004 |
It's true, vinyl does need to be in excellent condition - I'm no fan of surface noise of any kind. And new vinyl is almost always expensive, which is why I rarely buy it and why most of the vinyl I buy is used (although I'm not buying any vinyl these days...). Kevin, it's likely the fact that your Magazine record was battered that prevented you from hearing the details. Also, your stylus choice can make a profound difference. Some styli seem to bring out more detail than others. For example, I have been extremely happy with the Audio Technica 440MLa, which not only has a detailed sound, but tracks the inner grooves of LPs extremely well, greatly reducing inner groove distortion and sibilance. As for cleaning remedies, my DIY method may have only worked where I used to live in San Francisco because I just used tap water with a soft cotton cloth. But others may live in areas where the water is richer in minerals, and that could potentially do more harm than good. I know some people who buy distilled water and mix it with a bit of rubbing alcohol. I have heard that most of the solutions you can buy are basically a mixture of distilled water and alcohol. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2996 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yeah, tap water can be hideous. Los Angeles water is laden with minerals and also chlorine. You can actually smell the chlorine. If you use it on a record you will get a nice pretty looking record with an extraordinary background noise level. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 2415 Registered: 01-2005 |
Randy, I wonder about using NYC tap water cleaning vinyl? Native New Yorkers are always claiming their tap water is why their pizza dough is superior to any others. The next thing you know they will be saying the same thing about cleaning vinyl records! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2474 Registered: 10-2004 |
San Francisco/Bay Area tap water is great for cleaning records. Never had problems with it. But the vinyl geeks generally recommend buying distilled water. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1924 Registered: 10-2008 |
We have pretty decent water here in Scotland(well we have got to have some pleasure in life!), so I tried out a couple of records last night with a DIY clean. Correct Use of Soap is still terrible. Ziggy Stardust looked shitty before, looks great now but still has surface crackle. Playable though. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4743 Registered: 05-2005 |
I love vinyl, and still think some things sound better on it than on CD. I've got a lot of vinyl that was never released on CD in fact. But I do think CDs in general sound a lot better than vinyl, at least on a dollar for dollar system comparison. I think I've said it on this board before, but I've always found that the people with amazing (and amazingly expensive) hi-fi systems are the same people who bought Level 42 records. Just sayin'. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1927 Registered: 10-2008 |
I don't know anybody who bought a Level 42 record Padraig. You should be more careful with the company you keep! I remember back in the early 80's Paul Morley(or somebody equally hip at NME)trying to tell us Level 42 were brilliant. That was when NME went through that unfathomable phase of bigging up anything with a funky bass, and that soul music (for want of a better phrase)such as Bobby Womack and Janet Jackson was the bees knees. Yuch! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2999 Registered: 03-2005 |
Padraig's comment made me laugh. I remember it always seemed like the most obsessional of the record collectors had the worst stereos to listen to them on. It's kind of horrifying to think of all the valuable vinyl being ground into dust by craptacular "record players." Not sure if I've ever heard Level 42. I saw their CDs in the stacks all the time. Did they have a big bad radio hit? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4750 Registered: 05-2005 |
Leaving Me Now was a big hit Randy (I had to look it up in Wikipedia - I couldn't, thankfully, actually recall anything by them). By the way, I think the reason the serious record collectors often have the worst stereos is that they spend all their spare cash on more records, not hi-fi equipment. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 2476 Registered: 10-2004 |
I always managed to strike a good balance between decent hi-fi equipment and buying lots of records. In fact, I don't think I ever knew any serious record collectors with crappy stereo equipment, come to think of it! All the people with loads of records that I have known actually cared about how their LPs sounded. I usually prefer the sound of LPs to CDs because I like what the imperfection of the harmonic distortion inherent in the vinyl medium does for the music. It's a subtle difference, but I can hear it, particularly when a/b-ing the LPs and CDs of certain titles. Having said that, I have no problem with CDs. Randy, Level 42 most certainly did have a big bad radio hit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qWELGGrkv DY&feature=related | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 1930 Registered: 10-2008 |
I side more with Jeff than Padraig on this one. For example I would be surprised if most people on here (who all appear to have sizeable record collections) had a crappy system, and by that I mean they will at the very least have seperates equipment that cost minimum £500-1000/$1000-2000. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4756 Registered: 05-2005 |
I agree with Jeff and Kevin more than me too! I've always, since I could afford it, bought decent hi-fi separates. But I've never been obsessional about it. I save that for the music, not it's method of delivery! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 3000 Registered: 03-2005 |
Well, I'm showing my age here. I'm talking about back in the 70's, when vinyl was all there was. Nowadays I'd expect anybody listening to vinyl to be obsessive about caring for it since so much of it is so old. But I knew of several heavy duty record collectors who had the worst playback equipment, almost certainly for the reason Padraig said: they didn't want to spare a dime for anything that wasn't a record. And Padraig's remark made me laugh because I remember the folks who had hot systems who were drawn to great sounding recordings with no clue whatsoever as to the actual substance. They'd be the same people who a few years later were wearing those slinky reptilian-looking bicycle outfits. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 4762 Registered: 05-2005 |
"Those slinky reptilian-looking bicycle outfits." You nearly made my dinner come back up with that mental picture Randy. (I get what you mean though). |