| Author | Message | ||
     James |
I finished David Nicholls book last night and just wanted to say how much I enjoyed it. Very unnerving photo of RF in his underpants though. It was interesting to re-read some of the comments that they made before the most recent tour. Does anyone have any idea why they changed their minds about Glenn playing guitar and RF paying piano, they seemed genuinely enthused by both times I saw them the formula was the same throughout. | ||
| david nichols |
You'll notice that GMcL & particularly RF make these rash statements whenever they are about to undertake something. I bet the next album will not be Byron Bay reggae either. It is one of the things I find most amusing about them. Still that sense of anything's possible. Probably a legacy of their days in Brisbane reading NY Rocker or whatever and anticipating all kinds of amazing eventualities that never happened but the anticipating was most of the fun anyway. Thanks for the kind comments on the book. Did RF play piano when you saw them - ? | ||
| James |
There was a piano on stage in Manchester but no-one played it. I can only imagine they intended to play 'Unfinished Business' as that would suit the acoustic guitar/electric guitar/bass/piano set up. By the time they reached Barcelona the ivories were nowhere to be seen. One very pleasant effect of the book was to make me listen to BYBO again and it really impressed me. There's something very fresh about it, like clean linen, or a neatly ironed white sweater. I know what you mean about the drumming playing a major part in making Mrs Morgan good but it is strong song and the snare drum and acoustic guitar break before the last (?) chorus is exquisite. The running order is better that FORW, and the confidence of the album as a whole seems to carry it through, not sure if it contains any classic GBs songs though, 'Too Much of One Thing' maybe. Sorry David I spelled your surname incorrectly. | ||
| Cassiel |
When I saw them at the Jazz cafe in Camden on their acoustic tour, 1999 I think, Robert played piano while Grant sang 'Haven't I Been a Fool.' (I think) He sort of banged away at it with two fingers like a seven year old learning 'chopsticks'. Still sounded great mind. | ||
| david nichols |
BYBO is a really good album, much better than Rachel Worth, which has its moments but on the whole isn't a fave of mine. There was a widespread sense of relief around Rachel Worth, it wasn't awful; a lot of it was great. But BYBO is heaps better. I have a theory that sits on top of the commonly-held theory that every second GoBs album is excellent, the others tentative, experimental and strange. The theory is based around the idea that reviewers never really review an album, but the one before it - or, rather, that they come to an album with opinions formed by its predecessor. Therefore if BYBO got a relatively muted response it was because people were actually less impressed by FORW. Make sense? Dunno. | ||
| rj |
Agree with daves views on FORW its an OK album surprised by the choices of songs for the comeback as a lot that are on BYBO where around for that album -eg caroline and I for instance.The Production on FORW is very dry , probably deliberately but it does not stand up to repeated listening in my experience -BYBO on the other hand is great and has so far stood up to many repeated listenings- not too sure about the every second album theory -was does that leave the lost album or are the sequence numbers thrown out by that inclusion. right I'm off to put the case for Tallulah its about time someone did....:-) | ||
| david nichols |
Lost album doesn't count and neither do Very Quick, Bellavista, etc. | ||
| James |
In his book David suggests that the production of FORW and BYBO might end up sounding as dated as some of the bands Eighies records. I can see what he means regarding the use of 60's garage band sounding keyboards but I think on balance the albums might escape this fate as a direct result of the 'dry' production that rj mentions. To my ears the recent GBS production are braver because they capture the band as it really is (or as they intended it to be around the time of 'People Say'). I like the intimacy that the 'dry' sound creates. I can't think of anything on the pre-reformation records that has the atmosphere of the first 90 seconds of 'Spirit' for example. When BYBO was released people commented that it sounded like a Lou Reed record which I think it an accurate description. Given RF and GM's love of the Velvets it doesn't seem too far fetched to suggest that they've looked around at the kind of records that other people are making and have decided that Reed's sound is something they like and feel comfortable with. | ||
| david nichols |
The sound might have something to do with the people who make up the rest of the band, too. It always has in the past. Adele is a very good musician with a folk (or folk rock?) background - that fits with a Velvetsy sound, if you're thinking Loaded or the 3rd album. Glenn is a tight, cluey drummer who surely grew up on that 'striped sunlight sound' (and remember he has played in faux-country bands and Custard!). | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
I think the two new albums sound very typical of the times. A lot of people seem to be recording very 'dry' these days and I think it's a good thing. I love to listen to the new albums for the simple reason that I think they sound great: the bass is nice and thick, the drums sound rich and full and the guitars are right in your face. They sound so natural and band orientated, like the better tracks on "Spring Hill Fair." They surely benefit from the absence of reverb, so typically overused in the eighties. I agree with the similarity then with the 3rd Velvet's album. Word has it that Lou Reed actually went in and mixed it a second time with minimal 'verb. The bananna box set refers to them as 'closet' mixes, which is a perfect description of the effect achieved on a track like 'After Hours'. Moe Tucker could be singing right on your couch. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
That dryness factor is part of what turns me off of FORW. I think that particular record just sounds too much like "band playing in a small, bare room w/ four walls". But that has been the trend for indie recordings for a while now. I think BYBO has a a bit more color around the edges, which makes it more pleasing texturally, though it's still relatively dry. I don't mind reverb at all, though I prefer it if it's real instead of fake (meaning, I prefer reverb from a spring unit, or from recording in a cavernous room, over digital 'verb). I like "dry" recordings too, like a lot of 70s albums that have that very dead, muted kind of ambience. It's just that FORW sounds like it was recorded in my living room. There's that kind of boxy ambience to it that turns me off. | ||
| Gareth |
I think 'FORW' has a tentative sound surrounding it whereas 'BYBO' sounds far more confident. This is to be expected. To me, 'FORW' (which i like a lot) suffers from the band half trying to move on from the solo records and half trying to sound like a young, contemporary band. Of all their albums i think it's the most uncertain in sound and outlook. 'BYBO' however sounds like a band who are comfortable with their place in the world and are happy to play to their strengths. It's less progressive then 'FORW' but better for it. I don't think we can underestimate the contributions of Adele and Glen on 'BYBO'. It's a very confident sounding record and and i think much of this is down to them. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I think they closely miked Roberts rhythm guitar during the recording of Caroline and I. It's pretty obvious on that track. Probably this technique is used elsewhere on that album but I don't remember it being used at all on FORW. It's a technique that reveals a lot more detail in the recording than FORW could have. Closely miked acoustic instruments are more often found on Jazz, Folk and Classical recordings. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Well, most things in rock/pop are close mic'd, but it's common for the engineer to throw up a room mic as much as several feet away from the amp or instrument to give it a certain roomy ambience. During mixing, the close mic and the room mic are typically blended. That's a great technique (and one that I often use), but *only* if the room you're recording in sounds good. With FORW, it sounds like the room mics were left fairly prominently in the mix, and it's clear that it's a fairly dead room. In David's book, FORW producer/engineer Larry Crane made it clear that he and the band were going for an organic sound with none of the "gated 'verb" of stuff like 16LL. Larry Crane has recorded a lot of people like Sleater Kinney and Eliott Smith, and the dry, organic sound is something he's come to be known for, I think. I just don't think that sound really suits the Go-Betweens music; it doesn't do justice to the airy quality of their guitar playing, if that makes sense. Also, historically it's the other way around for jazz and classical recording; a lot of jazz recordings were done with a few mics thrown up in the room, with nothing close mic'd. That's how all the old jazz records were done, up until the 70s. You'd have everyone standing in just the right place so the microphones would pick up an even image of everything. Similar concept with classic. No overdubs, no room for error - everyone's gotta get it right the first time or else the whole thing had to be done over. It wasn't until the mid to late 60s that they started close-micing rock bands, simply because that's about the time studios finally had access to more than 4-tracks. And with more tracks, you could finally mic each amp or instrument and not rely on a few room mics to capture all the sound. Hence the improved sonic clarity on Abbey Road compared with Revolver. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Re: room mics. I wasn't suprised to see how liberally Tony Cohen used the technique on Lindy's drums for SMAL (see the tape box in Nichols new book). The room on that album is obviously very 'live', as oppossed to the 'dead' room used for FORW . I think both sound great: who wouldn't want the 2000 Go-Betweens playing in their living room? SMAL sonically reminds me of the work Steve Albini has done with the Breeders and the Dirty Three. Come to think of it, SMAL probably sounds more contemporary than any other of their eighties albums. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I think you may have misunderstood me. Probably it's due to my poor use of terminology. The sort of close miking I think I'm hearing is where a tiny microphone get's attached to, or even inside, an acoustic instrument. I don't think this technique can be used to good effect on and electric guitar or on any other sort of electronic instrument. They often put one of these inside a piano or on the end of a saxaphone. On an acoustic guitar it can be placed under the strings near the port. Maybe they simply used a free standing external mike in close proximity to Robert's rhythm guitar but I'm thinking that with the level of detail that they captured on the C&I track, (you can hear Rob's fingers dragging across the strings) maybe they used an internal mike. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Reading the comments on here really makes me look forward to reading the Dave Nicholls book, which I just ordered on Amazon 20 minutes ago. Concerning the FORW v. BYBO comparison, I am of the opinion that the creative peaks on FORW exceed those on BYBO while the newer album is more consistent. Both "Spirit" and "When She Sang About Angels" figure among RF's best work since his first solo album whereas the best thing he has on the new set is probably not even on the official album--"Girl Lying on a Beach." If it weren't for the publicity about "Caroline & I" I would never have had a clue that it was supposed to be a comparison between RF's rites of passage and those of Caroline of Monaco. After all, we're talking about someone who was at the wheel of the car that drove her mother to her death and there's no mention of that at all in the song. IMHO, "Caroline & I" is not a very well-developed concept. Similarly, GM's "Magic in Here" and "The Clock" have more of that elusive classic GoB's magic than anything he came up with for BYBO. "Poison in the Walls" and "Too Much of One Thing" are probably the closest. I do agree that BYBO has the sound of an actual band whereas FORW was still fairly tentative. Bearing in mind the fact that GM has always been more prolific than RF, I'd like to see an occasional solo album from him. Does everyone remember how nice "In Your Bright Ray" was (at least if we ignore the somewhat over-hot recorded sound)? I cannot believe that "Poison in the Walls," "Mrs. Morgan," "Crooked Lines," "Old Mexico" and "Unfinished Business" are all that GM wrote during 2002 or even the best of what he wrote. I agree with the folks who prefer the more modern drier recorded sound as compared to the glossy over-reverbed 80s productions. The heavy reverb actually hid many of the details in the arrangements. Unless you are a Phil Spector fan--it's pretty hard to appreciate that. I saw the GoBs in Paris in 2003. It was my first time seeing them on stage as I didn't actually discover the group in the first place until it was too late in 1990. I'm guessing that it was not a great night for GM, as he never really engaged with the audience at all--he just did his job. RF carried the entire task of entertaining and relating to the audience. Is this how it normally plays out between them? Btw, I loved their decision to include RF's "121" in the set--their version was much more engaging than the original on "Calling from a Country Phone." Sorry for going on so long. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
"The sort of close miking I think I'm hearing is where a tiny microphone get's attached to, or even inside, an acoustic instrument." Actually, what you're describing is basically just placing a pick-up in an acoustic guitar. It's a way to electrify an acoustic without having to sit 4-6 inches in front of a microphone. Pick up, microphone, whatever you really wanna call it, they ultimately do the same thing. Capture a sound and send it somewhere else. | ||
| James |
Adele and Glenn certainly have a bearing on the sound of BYBO and from what they've said about the recording of that album they were active in suggesting overdubs and arrangement ideas to RF and GM. However, Robert abd Grant must have discussed what direction the GBs sound might take prior to FORW. Given the difference in production and arrangements between the solo records my impression is that there might have been some disagreement but with Grant declaring that he's no longer pursuing sizeable commercial success and with the incorporation of Adele and Glenn it seems that the sound of Robert's solo records is the antecedent of the present GBs. I cam only presume that Grant is very happy with this. As for Grant demeanor at gigs, he does seem to sit back and let Robert entertain the audience. Sometimes he looks pissed off, other times he looks serene. Having never seen the GBs pre 1995 can anyone confirm whether this has always been their way? By the way, isn't King In Mirrors a great song? | ||
| Randy Adams |
Yes! King in Mirrors is one of the handful of other folks' songs I'd like to do myself. As for the approach to the GoBs' sound, to me it seems a pretty even compromise. We have Robert's idiosyncracy leavened by Grant's instinctual pop sensibility. That tension has always been one of their great aspects. I do still wish that GM was doing some solo work simply because I'm convinced that there are a lot of great unused songs out there. | ||
| r langston Unregistered guest |
to david nichols: david just wanted to say i thoroughly enjoyed the book...to have the history of the band in one place is terrific...and great you updated it. we used to trade fanzines back in ther 80s. i did garage about nz flying nun bands in nz and felt a bit of a kindred spirit to what you were doing in d violins..... | ||
| david nichols Member Username: David Post Number: 40 Registered: 09-2004 |
Thanks. Garage was a great publication, I really enjoyed it and still have some issues around... somewhere (I never throw a fanzine away, that's one thing you can be pretty sure you'll never be able to replace). | ||
| r langston Unregistered guest |
Yes, david never throw away a fanzine - or a letter. i lost my garage mail - the ones fans and bands had written - and it bugs me a great deal even now- 20 years after the fact. still gotta move on. i did a book of poems last year - could send you one if you like. i work in television now...reporter...current affairs...which reminds me do you know what's happening with the doco being made on the gb's??? | ||
| david nichols Member Username: David Post Number: 41 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yeah, please do send me your book. Love to read it. PO Box 249 Yarraville Vic 3013 The documentary: I don't know the story. Fiona Dempster was making it. She stopped making it to have a baby. I would actually really like to get in touch with her but I don't have a clue how to. Does anyone else know Fiona? She was 9/10 of the way there, as far as I could see, and had travelled far and wide to film. It was going to be a theatrical release overseas and a shorter one-hour TV production for Australian tv as well. | ||
| r langston Unregistered guest |
hope she manages to get it out - after the baby of course. post you a book tomorrow. | ||
| chris bartley Unregistered guest |
I got the original book. And very good it was too. Did the revised book from 2003 have an extra chapter? If I sent David something to cover postage and packaging, would he be ever so kind as to send it or am I being too cheeky? |