| Author | Message | ||
     Dusty |
Bit conceerned about the new reissues. They seem to have disappeared from the news section on the Circus website. Anyone know what's going on? | ||
| Duncan H |
Is there any more news? The Circus Records website is still empty of information as far as I can see. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Jonathan Turner mentioned in an email to me last week that the tapes were already at the studio for mastering, so the releases couldn't be that far off. Also, Jonathan has just finished transcring the bonus track lyrics for the booklets, so packaging couldn't be that far from development either. At this stage, however, they are not entirely certain of what's on or off the track listing. The only other thing I know is that this time around the lyrics wont be reproduced in the style used for the original LPs as they were in the last three reissues. They may or may not be using the extra space for additional photos. | ||
| Duncan H |
That's exactly what I wanted to hear! Thanks for that. | ||
| Randy Adams |
How do folks feel about printing lyrics? I've always thought it a bit anticlimactic. I like to discover the lyrics myself in the context of hearing them with the music, usually bit by bit at different listenings. All too often lyrics that work well with the music don't look very good in print and vice versa. In fact, I've learned this the hard way with my own stuff. I'd just as soon have the lyrics left out of the packaging. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Randy said: All too often lyrics that work well with the music don't look very good in print and vice versa. I think you're right about this, but if you are someone who has a hard time deciphering vague lyrics, such as myself, they are a welcome addition. I know it usually doesn't matter - it's the whole that counts - but where would Dylan be if people didn't make so much out of his words (I, myself, am actually a bigger fan of his simpler, late '60s/early '70s material). Sometimes lyrics can ruin a beautiful thing, but I don't think this is generally the case with a band like the Go-Bs. I do believe their literariness is over-hyped, but I can't think of any song, save for some bad McLennan ryhmes, that ruin the whole experience for me. I'm all for people being creative with their interpretation of lyrics, but if I hear what seems to me to be a poignant or profound lyric I like to know exactly what it is. Having said that, I should add that the lyrics for the bonus tracks are transcribed by Jonathan himself from the recordings. That means that he has somewhat of a hefty responsibility. (I've often wondered that if the songs are officially copyrighted and published then even unreleased songs must have a written record of their existence, perhaps with a draft of the lyrics and maybe a bare boned chord progression, etc... I'm pretty ignorant of these things and would like someone to correct me. But if I'm right, then I wonder why Jonathan couldn't get his hands on such a record.) I was interested to read, Randy, that you've realised hardships in lyric writing, though I'm not quite sure whether you're saying that you think your lyrics or your music sucks. I'd like to know more about your songwriting and anyone elses here in the chatroom. I write the occassional song myself and record it on my old Tascam 244 4-track, but mostly I'm just a guitarist. Lyrics are always a pain for me to write and I tend to do little redrafting, trying to convince myself of Kerouac's notion of "first idea, best idea". As I don't have a band to bounce my ideas off (the band I do play in is strictly the singer's baby) I find, like Forster, it's the recording process that brings a song into fruition: just playing around with song structure, sounds, instruments and finding different ways of recording things. In turn, a big part of the writing process for me comes by setting a mood which helps dictate the lyrics a bit. Sometimes I can hear right away how a song should sound but I prefer to suprise myself along the way. How about you, Randy? | ||
| Randy Adams |
They come every which way. Some songs actually pop into my head spontaneously and all I have to do is fill in the blanks. They go from idea to recorded demo in a few days. Some start as a chord progression that I like. I agree with you, the mood set by the progression will dictate what the lyrics need to do. A couple of months back, I had blundered upon a really good but rather dark tune on the guitar. Trouble was, I was not feeling very dark myself and just couldn't picture any lyrics at all. Then a friend came back to the states from europe in really terrible health and subsequently went through all kinds of shit. I got my lyrical concept. The recording process is indeed transforming. I started with one song that I viewed as a bit of an ironic joke and by the time I was finished, the lyrics were unchanged but the whole feel had evolved from something I thought would be a throwaway to one of my stronger numbers. I work on digital because it's easy and (relatively) cheap. I'm using a 24 track Roland. I am also a guitarist, albeit a shitty one. Fortunately my musical tastes usually favor simple playing so I find everything just barely within my reach. I assemble the guitar, bass and vocal parts. I am planning to buy a drum kit so that I can finish the arrangements. That promises to be interesting; I haven't played drums since I was about 17. That's 30 years ago. I think it's a good idea to go back and rework your lyrics. I've had many clunky lyrics slowly evolve into pretty good ones. After all, you cannot rely upon being inspired at the drop of a hat. I find sometimes that I'm just "on" and I have all these great ideas that just come running out and other times, it's like trying to pull conversation out of an autistic person. The hardest thing for me has been lead vocals. My harmonies are fine but I have a fairly limited voice and it's been a job to work out what "voice" to use when fronting everything else. I've landed on a sort of punk/Dylan/Lou Reed approach that seems to be the best. Concerning lyrics looking better on paper than in the song, I started out writing lyrics that sound like the way I speak. That seemed most authentic. But I've found some of the words that I use in speech just don't sound good in a song; it's too much like somebody's singing a newspaper--like what Dylan said to Phil Ochs. Concerning the discovery of lyrics, I still haven't learned all the lyrics to "Rock n Roll Friend," but each time I hear it I catch another snatch of Forster's really brilliant role-switching. The whole thing about lovers having to do their laps is so insightful and so well put and arrives in that song at exactly the right moment. I view R&R Friend as one of Robert's career bests. Wish he hadn't re-done it on "Warm Nights." | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Me to. I'll admit I'm a bit unsure of what that line means in the context of the song, but I'm young and hopefully it'll make more sense some time later in life when I'm a jaded muso still playing a gig a month at the local pub (note, my band played last night to, this is must be some kind of record, absolutely no payers, just the door bitch and the other band who took it upon themselves to tell me mid set to turn my guitar down. When they played they were twice as fucking loud!) Thanks for sharing your experiences with songwriting, Randy. You seem to have a lot of perspective on your art. To clarify a point, I don't rely on being inspired at the drop of a hat, I merely settle for second best. Ideas rarely ever pop into my head. I guess I could best describe my lyric writing as fitting pieces into a puzzle: sometimes a sequence of syllables just needs the words to fill it, then I might first have the third line in the verse so I have to build some lyrical idea around that to make it work. It may sound very forced and inauthentic, but eventually some logic comes about and I always realise that a theme arises that is very much a by-product of who I am or reflects my current state of mind in some way. It's a gradual unveiling of the psyche through lyrical pastiche! Impressed to hear you have a 24-track. Personally, I'd have a problem, also recording most parts myself, with feeling compelled to clutter the arrangement just to make use of all the tracks. 4-tracks is a fun way for me to work and a lot of that fun is working around the limitations of the tool: ie, my personal best is recording a bass part on my Lowrey organ pedals, whilst playing different percussion with each hand and singing the lead vocal at the same time, just to save some quality by not bouncing tracks. Not that it's about virtuosity (my singing was slightly off pitch in places). | ||
| Randy Adams |
That sounds great Pete. I don't think I'm coordinated enough to do that much at one time. The most tracks I've used to date has been about ten and that's mostly because of three-part backing harmony. And who ever said singing off pitch is a problem? I'd have to shut my mouth and so would Robert Forster. Your method of putting together lyrics is a perfectly good one. I do that as well. My point was that different songs come about differently--there's no consistent pattern. Few of them just pop up like mushrooms, although it's mighty nice when they do. I love the story about the band telling you to turn your guitar down. It reminds me of the old story about Eric Clapton going up to the Yardbirds' then-lead guitarist and asking him to "do me a favor--don't play any more guitar solos." | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Hey Randy, what part of the world are you in? If you said so before, I missed it. | ||
| Padraig Collins |
Now this is exactly the kind of tripe that hsf was complaining about ... just kidding. I think this G-Bs MB rocks too. I played Before Hollywood and the extra disc (why did they not just put everything onto one disc by the way, it would all have fit, even with the video) last night while reading David's book. Very enjoyable on both counts. If anyone reading this post has not gotten the book, you should. As well as being a great story there is also really good use of pictures, and I normally don't give a damn about the pics. Lots of stuff I never knew, such as the fact that there was one final bassist for a few weeks before they broke up. Hey hsf, I've rambled a lot here. I guess I'm one of the new contributors you don't care for? | ||
| Randy Adams |
I'm in Los Angeles. I'm a late bloomer as far as the GoBs are concerned. I first discovered them when I got a copy of 1978-1990 probably about ten years ago. I thought it was great, but didn't actually explore the band until a mere three years ago or so. I still remember what a revelation "The Wrong Road" was for me. I agree that David's book is a great read. Having read that, I suppose that "Rock n Roll Friend" is about Robert's defunct relationship with Lindy. Pete, I interpret the line about lovers having to do their laps to be a comment on how you sometimes have to show some attention to your partner even if you don't feel like it and the passion is all gone. I know I've had that experience and I suppose we all have. Robert conveys a profound resignation at how something really great is turning into a shell of unsatisfied need. Anyway, that's my interpretation. I wonder how things would have gone for the GoBs if they had NOT gotten into romantic relationships among themselves. Would Lindy have been less committed? More consistent? Would Grant and Lindy have gotten along? (Surely). And what about Amanda? Was Grant just a convenience for her? I assumed that hsf went over edge when mentions of the Bee Gees and the Hollies showed up on here, largely my fault. | ||
| Cassiel |
Don't worry Randy. What pushed hsf over the edge was realising the Go-Betweens might appeal to those with girlfriends and lives. There's room for Bee Gees, The Hollies; hell, I'm waiting for the Fleetwood Mac thread to appear any day now. Actually, who needs a new thread to go off on a tangent? I've got the reissues of Rumours and Tusk and they have not been off my CD player since. Hate Christine McVie's songs, too clean for my tastes, though I like barking mad LIndsey Buckingham's tunes; but the real treats come from from Stevie Nicks. That honey-throated, liquid voice gets me every time. Sara is a classic. Ahem. So when are the reissues coming out? | ||
| Alfred |
Cassiel: "Sara" is marvelous, probably my favorite Stevie Nicks composition. I love how the guitar chords and harmonies seem to hang suspended in the air, creating a shimmering backdrop in front of which stevie drps her most ethereal, least affected vocal. But I disagree with you about Christine's songs. She was the perfect foil for Lindsey's madness and Stevie's witchy twaddle. All her songs are about just having sex or about a woman who can't wait for it. There's genuine ardor and grit in "You Make Loving Fun" and "Brown Eyes" that's more human than anything Stevie and Lindsey could come up with. Her presence is sorely missed on the new albm. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Ah, Fleetwood Mac. Truly worthy of it's own thread, but if I started it, I'd get flamed for sure. Tusk is an uneven masterpiece. Sara is one of the most beautiful, haunting songs ever written, as is Dreams. I even like early 70s pre-Lindsey stuff with Bob Welsh, like Sentimenal Gentleman. I could hear the Go-Betweens covering that, with Robert singing, of course. There's just too much to say about this band, and I need to go to sleep now. | ||
| John |
I heard the song "Tusk" when it played on Rage on Saturday night, and appalled myself by thinking, "Hey, this is really interesting. I should buy that album" I’m gettin’ old... | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Been meaning to get "Tusk" since that excellent article on it in Mojo late last year (there I go again, giving Mojo its props - sorry to use a Randy Jackson expression but, yes, I have been watching 'American Idol'). Is the early Peter Green stuff deserving of the semi-mythical standing it's often given? The only song from that period that I know is the version of "Oh Well" they do on the "Live" album that came out after "Tusk". That song is very impressive and suprising, but how can you dismiss a song like "Dreams" (despite the Corrs cover and the songs meteorological innaccuracies)? | ||
| Cassiel |
Who dismissed 'Dreams?' Can't see how any sentient human could. Love that wobbly bass bit that accompanies the 'wrap around your finger' line. Even has me playing 'air bass', which must be the saddest thing a man could do. I think I was a bit strong in saying I hate Christine McVie, Alfred. I like her songs less than the others, and her voice pales into comparison next to Nicks. Some of her hits the spot in an MOR, I'm driving and it's sunny and I want to hear some top-class soft rock sort of way. I did read that Greil Marcus loves her; at one point reckoned she was the female Bob Dylan. And I do agree about Nick's lyrics; mystical tosh. Though when the tune is as gorgeous and beautifully sung as 'Landslide' and 'Silver Springs' (actually, the words for the latter are OK; a swipe at Lindsey unless i'm really stupid) I'll forgive her anything. That's why I love Sara; you can barely tell make out what she's singing, and can savour the grain of her voice, a bit like Liz Frazer from The Cocteau Twins. Like Nicks, when you read her lyrics you also thanked the Lord that you couldn't decipher them; 'Frou Frou Foxes in Midsummer Winklepickers' and stuff like that. I known nothing about Mac pre Buckingham Nicks. Always strike me as a bit hairy and a bit too male. Phallucrats to use a word I learned recently. As has been mentioned, the Go-Betweens and FM have alot in common; about 700 million units and dollars aside. When Grant and Amanda got it on, didn't he say, 'Great: let's turn this into Fleetwood Mac?' Half of FM's songs, so I'm told, were written about each other and their respective break-ups. Wonder how many of Rob and Grant's are about Lindy and Amanda? Come to think of it, it should be the sworn duty of every band to turn themselves into a rolling soap opera. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Now you see the wisdom of not printing lyrics? I wonder if I'll ever be able to listen to FM fairly. For me, they are the reason the Sex Pistols were invented. But I am a bit of a phallucrat. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
They *were* the reason the Sex Pistols were invented, and for that we should be grateful. Getting into Fleetwood Mac requires a fair amount of hurdle jupming and baggage shedding, at least for people like me who grew up on the very punk/post-punk/new wave/whatever that sought to destroy mid-70s excess. However, once said baggage is shed; eg - once you can look past the platinum sales, vapid lyrics (at least where Nicks is concerned), and general cocaine-fueled glitz that made them seem so garish on the surface, you'll discover some truly inventive and artfully constructed pop music. No, you won't find records as consistent or cohesive as say 16LL, but you will find lot's of songs that are weak-in-the-knees beautiful, haunting, atmospheric, artfully minimalist, etc... Take Dreams, Rhiannon, Brown Eyes, That's All For Everyone, Gypsy, Sara, Honey Hi, etc... and you'll see what I mean. I even quite like the pre-Lindsey stuff with Bob Welch - stuff like Bare Trees and Mystery To Me. I challenge anyone to listen to Sentimental Gentleman or Hypnotized, from that era, and tell me with a straight face that those songs aren't spine-tinglingly beautiful and mesmerizing. | ||
| Alfred |
You all should check out the Village Voice's Pazz and Jop Critics Poll for 1977, in which "Never Mind the Bullocks" narrowly edged "Rumours" for album of the year. It's funny how tastes change. Greil Marcus and Robert Christgau were the only critics then with the balls to argue that Rumours might be the better record: the rare album in which popular approval for once matched the quality of its music. For the record, I love "Bollocks" and "Rumours" equally and for different reasons. And think "16 Lovers Lane" is the equal of "Rumours", not the other way around... | ||
| Bernard LANGE |
As advertised on HMV Japan. Release date 23/06/2004. 16 Lovers Lane Love Goes On Quiet Heart Love Is A Sign You Can't Say No Forever The Devil's Eye Streets Of Your Town Clouds Was There Anything I Could Do I'm Alright Dive For Your Memory Love Goes On (Single Version) Wait Until June Mexican Postcard Rock And Roll Friend Casanova's Last Words You Won't Find It Again Running The Risk Of Losing You Apples In Bed Head Over Heels You're A Big Girl Now Was There Anything I Could Do (Video Clip) Streets Of Your Town (Video Clip) Tallulah Right Here You Tell Me Someone Else's Wife I Just Get Caught Out Cut It Out The House Jack Kerouac Built Bye Bye Pride Spirit Of A Vampyre The Clarke Sisters Hope Then Strife Time In The Desert I Just Get Caught Out (Demo) Don't Call Me Gone Right Here (Demo) If I Was A Rich Man / The House Jack Kerouac Built (BBC Session) When People Are Dead The Clarke Sisters (Demo) A Little Romance Bye Bye Pride (BBC Session) Doo Wop In A (Bam Boom) Right Here (Video Clip) Bye Bye Pride (Video Clip) Liberty Belle & the Black Diamond Express Spring Rain The Ghost And The Black Hat The Wrong Road To Reach Me Twin Layers Of Lightning In The Core Of The Flame Head Full Of Steam Bow Down Palm Sunday (On Board The Ss Within) Apology Accepted The Life At Hand Don't Let Him Come Back Apology Accepted I Work In A Health Spa Bow Down (Demo) Casanova's Last Words (Original Version) Head Full Of Steam (Single Version) Little Joe The Wrong Road (Demo) Reunion Dinner I'm Gonna Knock On Your Door Spring Rain (Video Clip) Head Full Of Steam (Video Clip) | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Rockin' good news, Bernard. They've even got 'The Wrong Road' demo. Quite a few different versions of new songs too plus a bunch of ones I've never heard of. Sounds authentic, but I won't get too excited till Jonathan or Circus posts the info. | ||
| Babs Keatings neighbour |
Re. 'You're a big girl now'; is this a cover of the Bob Dylan song? By my reckoning, between the 3 albums there only seems to be 14 songs or versions thereof that haven't seen the light of day in terms of an official release which is a little disappointing. That isn't to say that I won't be buying them, of course! | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Hey Bernard, how about a link? I couldn't find the information, myself - or indeed anything on the Go-Betweens when I did an artist search. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Dont worry, found 'em. Go to: http://www.hmv.co.jp/search/artist.asp?artistcode=000000000004355 | ||
| jonathan |
This is the tracklisting for the Japanese release, on Wonderground. Barring any late changes this is an accurate tracklist, and I don't think there will be any different tracks on releases elsewhere. Yes, "You're A Big Girl Now" is the Dylan song. I'll get more info up on the site as soon as I can. Jonathan | ||
| Cassiel |
Thanks for posting that. Can't wait. Though can't say I'm holding out much hope for 'Doo Wop In a (Bam Boom)'. Surely must be a candidate for worst Go-Betweens song title? | ||
| Gareth |
On first glance this is really good. Will be great to have 'Wait Until June', 'When People are Dead' and 'Mexican Postcard' on cd at last. Some tracks i've just no idea about though -'Running The Risk Of Losing You', 'Apples In Bed' and 'Reunion Dinner' anyone?!? | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
'Running the Risk Of Losing You' is a Forster song from the Botany Sessions. Don't know if it'll be that one on the CD or if there was a full band recording of it elsewhere. The others I have no idea of. The Dylan cover holds a special place: it must be the first recorded cover in their history (recently they did the Titanics 'Taxi, Taxi' on the Australian 'Caroline & I' single - they could have picked something more deserving of the title). Couldn't hear Grant doing 'Big Girl' so it must be Robert singing this beautiful Dylan number which, if anyone reading isn't sure, is off his 1975 classic break-up album "Blood on the Tracks". | ||
| david nichols |
If 'lost album'-era recordings count, which maybe they shouldn't, there was also a version of 'Most Likely You Go Your Way and I'll Go Mine' put to tape at that time, so, a much earlier Dylan cover. 'Running the Risk of Losing You' was in the band's live set at the very end of the 80s, very violin-driven as I recall. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
On closer inspection, the Tallulah reissue looks like the least interesting of the bunch - though it'll be very interesting to hear the demo version for 'Right Here' minus Craig Leon's production overkill. However, this will be the first time I will own Tallulah on CD as it was the only one of the '96 reissues I chose not to buy as I thought the remastering sounded terrible. Clearly the digital cleansing process didn't benefit those songs that were recorded in the cheaper studio David's book describes. Instead, I clung on to my slightly distorted sounding True Tone pressing. Hopefully the improvements in mastering in the last 8 years make it a worthwhile purchase this time around (plus the bonus disc, of course, as I've never heard 'TIme in the Desert' or 'Doo Wop'). | ||
| Cichli Suite |
'Big Girl'(!) is one of my favourite ever Dylan songs, so its a double treat to have it covered by the G-Bees. Actually, although Grant and Robert have regularly name checked Dylan, I've never really picked up on his influence in their songs until the recent 'Too much of one thing', which reminds me somehow of the romping style of Dylan's 'Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts' (also from Blood on the Tracks). Unlike with the Dylan song, I tend never to skip over 'Too much of one thing'! Cichli | ||
| Dusty |
As the proud initiator of this 'thread' (albeit a negative, troubled query) I shall put forth my initial thoughts. First of all, great to see things have actually been put together and for that Circus should be commended warmly (much better than in the hands of the apathetic Beggars). 'Liberty Belle' looks a very interesting proposition. I'm delighted that 'I work in a health spa' has made the cut as the last time I heard it was 1986 when it was aired on John Peel. I remember it sounded good at the time. Also a couple of dark horses 'Reunion dinner' and 'Gonna knock on your door' which I don't know anything about. I think 'Tallulah' has been well-serviced - I have a bootleg copy of the Tallulah bootlegs and both 'I just get caught out' and 'Clarke sisters' (much looser) are great. Perhaps my only quibble is that the demo version of 'Bye Bye Pride' was excluded which is really good - v.natural sounding - but I suppose they had to go with the Peel session. Also good to see the Peel version of "house JK built" which is a refreshingly different feel from the studio 'cut'. The Peel version of 'Spirit of the Vampyre' is really good though and I think it was a missed opportunity not to include that. Actually that's another quibble. Also I hope 'If I Was A Rich Man/The House Jack Kerouac Built' isn't a medley. Finally '16 Lovers Lane' looks really good - several unheard of tracks and avoided the temptation just to pluck loads from the 'Acoustic demos' - begs the question - will this be released seperately sometime along with the 'Botany Sessions' which looks as if it's also been avoided. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
That's funny, Cichili, 'cause 'Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts' is the one song I always skip over from "Blood on the Tracks". | ||
| Randy Adams |
To my ears, there's loads of Dylan influence on "Horsebreaker Star," most blatantly on "What Went Wrong." But the best way to be influenced by somebody is subliminally--as one of the many ingredients that forms your concept of what is good and therefore goes indirectly into your own work. | ||
| jerry |
I do like it when the extras on a CD are longer than the original album. If these tracks are going to be on the worldwide releases we are in for a treat. Dusty, maybe Circus will start a bootleg series by the Go-B's parts 1, 2 and 3 should be ready next year. | ||
| Dusty |
Or we could do one ourselves - pull all our resources together - all the stuff that didn't make the final cut (there are lots of them I'm sure and there are some really good tracks) - find the best copies available - and send them around. I know it's been done before (e.g. on the Gene Clark website). I'd speak to Circis first and/or Jonathan to see what they think. Either that or see if Circus would be interested in a limited release through their own website - they have mastered more tracks than made the album so why not make use of them. It's just a thought at the moment - what does everyone else think? Obviously Circus are far too busy with the current reissues to be pestered at the moment but maybe in a month or two.....or am I just being naive? | ||
| fsh |
The Go-betweens did a great live version of 'Hurricance' circa 88/89. Pitty it wasn't captured for the 16LL set. I think touring with REM on the Green tour honed the Go betweens into a very exciting integrated outfit and probably nearly killed them in the process. They sounded great imho on that last tour and they weren't always a great live band. Hope that version of 'I'm gonna knock on your door' isn't the live one from 1985 - not the best quality recording I've ever heard. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
I've mentioned a live recording of 'I need two heads' from 1982 with an incredible revised drum part on this chat room before. That'd be worth contributing (thank Paraig for that one) plus the whole of VQOTE. I transfered my vinyl copy to CD and it sounds real good. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Sorry Padraig (for mispelling your name - slip of the finger). |