| Author | Message | ||
     Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3422 Registered: 05-2005 |
Very sad news. I don't know what else to say. I'm gutted. I'm glad I saw Big Star live. http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/201 0/mar/17/memphis-musician-alex-chilton-d ies/ | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2288 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wow. First Vic Chesnutt. Now Chilton. Our Southern Gothic masters are disappearing. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1907 Registered: 10-2004 |
!!!! !!!! !!! | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 722 Registered: 07-2006 |
i'm with you padraig, just gutted. kangaroo is my favourite ever song. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 599 Registered: 10-2008 |
i suppose its just life isnt it? doesnt make it any easier though when guys we grew up admiring and loving seem to be dying month upon month.. i played the ballad of el goodo in the car yesterday and thought how timeless it sounded. every time i heard thirteen i swear i got goosebumps. | ||
| peter ward Member Username: Peter_ward Post Number: 111 Registered: 06-2005 |
Jesus, Vic, Mark and Alex in quick succession, legends falling like flies. Was probably at the same Big Star show as you in Dublin Padraig, really glad to have caught them. I also saw Alex play a solo show in Whelans one night, he was a hell of a guitar player. September Gurls was probably my favourite, pop perfection although I've had the "Thirteen" goosebumps many times too Kevin. Friends of mine used it as their first dance at their wedding recently. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1908 Registered: 10-2004 |
Speaking of "Thirteen" and weddings, a friend and I performed that song for some friends' wedding when the bride walked down the isle. It worked perfectly. I was so not expecting this awful news. We started off the year with Rowland Howard's passing, and now this. "Third" has long been a favorite of mine. I'm going to have to give that record some time this week. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 600 Registered: 10-2008 |
now that i'm more awake, the point i was cumbersomely making about "... its just life isnt it?" is that as we get older and our musical heroes get older this type of news is gonna happen month upon month i reckon. keith richards will probably still outlast us all!! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2289 Registered: 03-2005 |
He already looks like something that was dug up from under the Louvre. I'm with Jeff, it's Chilton's raw work on "Third" that does it for me. It's morning here in California. I usually don't play music while slowly getting myself together for work but you know what? I'M GONNA GET BORN . . . . | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 538 Registered: 04-2005 |
Just to add to the misery the music critic Charlie Gillet has died too. His book 'The Sound of the City : The Rise of Rock and Roll' is a great read. I'll be playing "Third" tonight. Today is one year to the day that someone in our village was killed in an accident. I have the vision of him waving to me the night before he died seared into my memory. It is just life and you know these things happen, but it is still hard to accept or believe that someone is there one moment and not the next. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2290 Registered: 03-2005 |
My email box this morning had a message in it from the incomparable Matthew Lobb. Just four video links. Watch them in sequence: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wD9mCp8Si fM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JC0Wa3P_d O0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LOF7x-rWy 9Q and... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sTSJYZyou ek | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1909 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kev, both Keith Richards *and* Mark E. Smith will undoubtedly outlast us all. Maybe Shane MacGowan, too. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3423 Registered: 05-2005 |
The first song I heard after my daughter was born was September Gurls. I didn't know what disc was in the CD Walkman. I just pressed play and it came on. It was September. I played it a couple of times for us last night. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1781 Registered: 09-2006 |
Just might turn it into a marathon: Box Tops best-of, the Big Star records, and the Top 30 solo comp. Had just begun introducing my wife to his music recently...RIP | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 723 Registered: 07-2006 |
nice randy! love that 'mats track too, i think i actually think of that song now before anything whenever i see his name. and it seems to capture his mood/talents perfectly. i spun third a couple of times last night, which made for more harrowing listening than usual. if it weren't for third, i'd have honestly never bothered with the velvets. so many reasons to be thankful! | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 773 Registered: 04-2006 |
it seems that the OFF-Topic turns into a R.I.P.-topic. So much have been gone over the last months. Some ''heroes'' like Rowland S. Howard or the great Kate McGarrigle. And now the ''big star''Alex Chilton of whom I took notice because This Mortal Coil done a version of Kangaroo. Big Star's Third and Chilton's Like flies on Sherbert were my first favourites. Today I prefer Big Star's first and second album. And often said on this board: Thirteen is my favourite Big Star song and one of those songs I sing-a-long so often. A Goosebump Song, indeed. R.I.P. | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 291 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks for those video links Randy. Fantastic stuff. Sad day indeed. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1910 Registered: 10-2004 |
Andreas, I got into Big Star via This Mortal Coil's covers of Kangaroo and Holocaust (the latter excellently sung by Howard Devoto), too. But at that time I'd never heard of Big Star, and I just assumed those to be cool improvements on some obscure folkie crap. But when I discovered Third, I was blown away at what a beautiful album it was, and also at how it was so UNlike anything else from the mid-70s. It's a very timeless record. | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 724 Registered: 07-2006 |
what jeff said - word for word! though kangaroo always captured my imagination more than holocaust/anything else i've ever heard. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 539 Registered: 04-2005 |
Cheers Randy for those links; only had time last night to investigate the first, but it is truly entertaining with The BoxTops miming (extremely incompetently) to 'The Letter'. The keyboard player clearly enjoying taking the p*** out of the whole charade. I presume Alex Chilton must have got a glance at the monitor as he cracks up too. Yes This Mortal Coil turned me on to Big Star as well. And also to Tim Buckley, through 'Song to the Siren'. The first time that I saw Jeff Buckley live his version of Kangaroo was extremely intense. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 602 Registered: 10-2008 |
i'm guessing most people(apart from randy?)only heard of big star after this mortal coil's album was released. i was never a big fan of 4-ad records and at the time this record stank of pretension to me, but i was an idiot! then the replacements song alex chilton was the standout track on their 1987 album pleased to meet me and more people (including me)sat up and took notice.when teenage fanclubs bandwagonesque came out in 1990 big star was the name to drop and it all seemed to gather momentum from there. the first two albums were re-released in the famous two-fer in 1992 and the legend was cemented. i think their greatness is assured when nobody seems to be able to decide which of the 3 albums is the masterpiece. i know i change my mind year on year. god bless alex chilton! | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 774 Registered: 04-2006 |
yes, andrew. tim buckley is the other one whom i took attention of for the first time after listening to this mortal coil. holocaust, kangaroo and song to the siren were THE songs on their album (at least they are the only ones i remember). i don't have it anymore (if i am remembering right i must have 12" of ''the song to the siren'' somewhere). sold it (like so many other albums of that kind of music) as my taste changed from ''english'' stuff to more american -so called- independent music. therefore kevin, you maybe done it right back then. on my way to work i listened to big star's third. joe and jeff, yes it is still a great album and listening to kangaroo, what shall i say, sends shiver to my spine. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 775 Registered: 04-2006 |
and thanks, randy, for the four links. unfortunately the first one doesn't work in germany because of Sony contents. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 603 Registered: 10-2008 |
"i'm guessing most people(apart from randy?)....." should of course read "i'm guessing most people on here(apart from randy?)..... he's good, but he's not that good!!! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2291 Registered: 03-2005 |
Kevin, I wish I were cool and dialed-in enough to be able to say I heard Big Star when they were functioning. The Box Tops were a bit of a hit machine in the late 60s so of course I remember them and I even had a copy of one of their albums. My recollection is that I was turned on to Chilton as a solo artist first. A friend played his "Bangkok" and Seeds cover "Can't Seem to Make You Mine" and I was knocked out that this guy from a producer-created blue-eyed soul hit machine dropped the contrived fake-soul voice and went out and did something completely different on his own. And NOTHING attracts me to an artist so much as the combination of high quality and commercial failure. Of course, then I read up on him and learned about Big Star. I think this was in 1986 or so. I remember turning another guy who was a big fan of the mainstream big-buck rock bands of the 70s onto Big Star in that time period. I never heard any This Mortal Coil though I liked their album covers. Andreas, sorry to hear you can't see the Box Tops clip. It's pretty funny. Chilton was 17 at the time. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1464 Registered: 08-2006 |
I'd always heard of Big Star, but like the Velvet Underground, you couldn't get their records when I was growing up. You could get your hands on random Chilton solo stuff, but not Big Star. It really was Paul Westerberg and his very fine song who sent people looking for the stuff and finally got these recordings out. I'm sure they would have seen the light of day without the Replacements, but I wonder when. RIP AC. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3426 Registered: 05-2005 |
My introduction to them was in Steve Sutherland's review of Teenage Fanclub's Bandwagonesque in the Melody Maker in October 1991. He kept saying it had all been done before by Big Star, but without explaining anything about who Big Star were. It really annoyed me. It was so utterly pretentious to mention a very obscure band and imply you were a bit of an eejit if you'd never heard of them. But I bought and loved Bandwagonesque and then a few months later, having moved to Sydney, I bought a double CD of Big Star which had the first two albums on disc 1 and the third on disc two. I've never seen this package anywhere else before or since. Internet searches reveal nothing either. It had good, proper sleeve notes though, so I'm assuming it's not a pirate. My love affair with Big Star had begun. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 604 Registered: 10-2008 |
i remember that review padraig. he really laid it on thick. that was some find, all 3 albums in one package. i,m listening to third as i type this, femme fatale is playing. for such an iconic song its a brilliant interpretation. i quite like the fact there is no definitive tracklisting to this album. it adds an air of mystery to a very brave and innovative (for the time)record | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2293 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ah, but Padraig . . . did you then concede that you'd been an eejit up to that time? Sister Lovers/3rd--whatever you want to call it--truly transcends a decade most of you know I'm not a great fan of. The first two albums have a bit of archetypal-70's-skippable stuff like "Feel" or, worse yet, "Don't Lie to Me." But that third album busted out of the traces completely. Which is why it's my favorite. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3427 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy, I'm outraged! (Not really - but not an eejit either. How else was I going to hear about Big Star unless in a music magazine? It's not like Irish radio was wall to wall with nascent 70s power pop). Kevin, yeah, it was a great find. It's on a label called Line, which I can also find no mention of anywhere. It's all very mysterious, like the track listing of Third. My version has 17 songs. Third would be my favourite if it wasn't so damn harrowing in places. It's not a record you could play very often. I think that record invented Joy Division maybe! Peter, yes, that gig was in August 2001. I reviewed it in The Irish Times. Andreas, I just looked at the Big Star package and it says Line Records was German. Do you know of them? | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2295 Registered: 03-2005 |
I remember Line Records. I have some anthologies of Joe Meek's early work on that label. In fact, I think I have quite a few Line reissues. I see my copy of Gene Clark's "No Other" is also on Line. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3430 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks for the info Randy. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 607 Registered: 10-2008 |
my version of third has 19 tracks, on rykodisc(1992) | ||
| Hugh Nimmo Member Username: Hugh_nimmo Post Number: 223 Registered: 03-2007 |
Padraig, Line Records was based in Hamburg, Germany. It was formed around the mid 1970's and the majority of their releases were by American and British artists/bands including some reasonably well known names ( Spirit; Moby Grape; Alex Chilton; Big Star; Tim Hardin; Stooges; Feelies; John Stewart; Roger Chapman previously of Family; Dr. Feelgood; Ian Matthews previously of Fairport Convention.) The label continued releasing music up until the late 1990's at which time it disappeared off the radar. No. 1 Record/Radio City was released on cd by Line in 1986 under the catalogue number LICD 9.00465 0. It was my interest in Tim Hardin, Ian Matthews and John Stewart that brought the label to my attention. Check out the following link for more information. http://rateyourmusic.com/label/line_reco rds/1 the label. I boxed up my vinyl collection many years ago but according to the index I have a copy of No. 1 Record/Radio City issued on the Stax label. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1465 Registered: 08-2006 |
I have the Line double version of #1 Record and Radio City. I think I bought it in the late 80s in Columbus, Ohio, where I was living at the time. I remember it was pretty expensive, but there was no way I was passing it up. My version of Third is a weird one - it's on some label called Castle and leads off with "Stroke It, Noel." I think I found it in the early 90s. I'm so used to its track order I never bought the Ryko version even though it contained a few extra songs. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1782 Registered: 09-2006 |
That may (or may not) be the one I started off with too, Rob, (though I think the label was PVC, or something like that) and I did prefer the sequencing to the Ryko as well...did "For You" come next? However, my copy was a cassette, so I happily sprung for the Ryko when it appeared, and just resequenced it myself whenever playing it. And most of the Ryko extras are definitely worth hearing, especially "Nature Boy." | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1783 Registered: 09-2006 |
And I bought the #1 Record/Radio City twofer in 1992 as an import, but I think the label was Big Beat. Served me well for quite a few years but then the disc began to slowly darken in color and eventually began to chronically skip. Now I've got the domestic reissue, same cover and liner notes as the Big Beat. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 782 Registered: 04-2006 |
hello padraig and all you folks! yes, line records done a good job at the end of the seventies. it was one of the labels who reissued music you can't buy anymore at that time (hugh said it all in his above posting). or they gave ''old'' artists a new home (for example roger chapman) - and they brought stiff to germany! and beserkley (jonathan richman!) i am interested in music since i was a young boy and much more important i am curious about all kind of music. and, therefore, line records was very important to me. and they had white vinyl! back to big star/alex chilton: despite the fact that TMC released their album in 1984 i could have bought my big star albums not before 1986, because my copy of no 1. is a big beat release of that year, radio city is a line records release. also from 1986. my copy of third is the aura records release. i have also two other aura releases (alex chilton document and like flies on sherbert) which i remember havin g bought by a mail order firm called MALIBU. they had a monthly catalogue and because of their recommendations i have discovered so many musicians through them. and they constantly sold original records you can't buy any longer -like the big star aura record or the teardrop explode and wipers albums. it was a great time, really. | ||
| andreas Member Username: Andreas Post Number: 783 Registered: 04-2006 |
maybe of interest http://www.furious.com/Perfect/bigstar.h tml | ||
| joe Member Username: Dogmansuede Post Number: 725 Registered: 07-2006 |
i always thought "for you" covered by REM circa out of time/automatic would sound all too apt. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1466 Registered: 08-2006 |
Allen, sounds like you and I might have had the same version of "Third," or at least one with a similar track listing. Anyhow, for those of you with NY Times access, here's a typically cool remembrance of AC by PW. http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/21/opinio n/21westerberg.html | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1784 Registered: 09-2006 |
The PVC running order (which was also the running order when it first came out on vinyl, not that that makes it any more "official"): Stroke it Noel For You Kizza Me You Can't Have Me Night Time Blue Moon Take Care Jesus Christ Femme Fatale O, Dana Big Black Car Holocaust Kangaroo Thank You Friends I still like that sequence very much, though I could see "Thank You Friends" and "Take Care" maybe trading places. The Ryko running order feels a bit arbitrary to me, and if the liner notes are anything to go by they're REALLY arbitrary: Jim Dickinson says "'Thank You Friends' was supposed to be first..." so why does the disc lead off with "Kizza Me"? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1911 Registered: 10-2004 |
Allen, I've always preferred the PVC running order. The Ryko version just doesn't make any sense. The first version I heard was the Ryko, but I fell in love with the album *more* when I got a hold of the PVC version because the running order flowed so much better. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 608 Registered: 10-2008 |
i agree even though i have the ryko. guess i could always use the "program" button on the cd player in future. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3431 Registered: 05-2005 |
The running order on the Line version is radically different: Kizza Me You Can't Have Me Jesus Christ Downs Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On Thank You Friends O, Dana Femme Fatale Stroke it Noel Holocaust Night Time Kangaroo For You Take Care Blue Moon Dream Lover Big Black Car | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3432 Registered: 05-2005 |
There's a nice review of Saturday night's tribute to Alex Chilton as SXSW here. Andy Hummel flew in from Lithuania to play it! http://www.austin360.com/blogs/content/s hared-gen/blogs/austin/music/entries/201 0/03/21/sxsw_review_big_staralex_chilt.h tml?cxntfid=blogs_austin_music_source | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3434 Registered: 05-2005 |
Listening to Third now. One day I must program in the PVC running order. The track Downs really interrupts the flow of the album. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1467 Registered: 08-2006 |
I was wrong, Allen. The Castle version of Third I have, which is copyrighted 1987, runs like this: Stroke it Noel Downs Femme Fatale Thank You Friends Holocaust Jesus Christ Blue Moon Dream Lover You Can't Have Me Big Black Car Kizza Me For You O Dana Nightime Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On Kanga Roo Take Care Starting with Stroke It and ending with Take Care always made pretty good sense to me, but it may just be because I've heard it that way for so long. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3439 Registered: 05-2005 |
For anyone who's interested, I've posted a review I did of a 2001 Big Star concert here http://www.myspace.com/padraigcollins Castle was a good label for re-releases of old albums. It was English. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_Comm unications Thanks to all the people who posted information about Line Records above. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1468 Registered: 08-2006 |
Nice, Padraig. I got to see Chilton solo once, back in the early 90s. But never Big Star. You lucky dog. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1759 Registered: 01-2005 |
Like Jeff, I got into Big Star via the covers on the first This Mortal Coil, however I didn't really search them out/buy any albums until the reissues on cd in the early 90's. Thirteen, September Gurls, Kangaroo and Holocaust are all unforgetable songs that will always resonate. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1785 Registered: 09-2006 |
Dickinson's memories on the matter ("Thank You Friends" first, "Take Care" last) would certainly seem to fit Chilton's headspace at the time...an album which begins "Thank you, friends/wouldn't be here if it wasn't for you," and ends "Beware of the need for help." | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 610 Registered: 10-2008 |
i programmed the cd player to play the pvc version of third/sister lovers that jeff and others are so fond of and was blown away. it seemed to hang together beautifully and makes the ryko verion i have from 1992 seem a bit lame. so i did a bit of searching and found the japanese ryko version on amazon for less than ten pounds. it is effectively the pvc version (did they realise thay had made a mistake in 1992?) and it also has the 5 bonus tracks from the 1992 ryko to make it arguably the ultimate version of third/sister lovers? i got the last copy of the japanese cd from amazon but have posted a link for anybody in the uk who is intrigued and who might want to order it from them http://www.amazon.co.uk/Third-Big-Star/d p/B000BFH0S4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&s=music& qid=1269377814&sr=8-2 there is also a slightly more expensive version available on ebay, but it doesnt have the 5 bonus tracks. http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Big-Star-Third-Sis ter-Lovers-CD-NEW_W0QQitemZ140388028978Q QcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_CDsDVDs_CDs_CDs_GL? hash=item20afc75232#ht_500wt_956 wiki try to shed some light on the mystery behind the album, this includes tracklist of a white label pressing of the album on ardent which may or may not add some clues!! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third/Siste r_Lovers | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3441 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks for the links Kevin. I'm going to order the Japanese version. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2298 Registered: 03-2005 |
I have been ignoring the thread about the order of tracks on "Third/Sister Lovers." I have the PVC CD version. I'm not absolutely certain but I think I got it very shortly after it was released (1985) and before I got the first two albums though all that stuff tends to fade in the mists of now very distant time. So I have a question. My PVC version has 17 tracks and starts with "Jesus Christ" and ends with "Thank You Friends." Are there five more tracks than that? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3442 Registered: 05-2005 |
I'm pretty sure there are 19 tracks spread among all the versions Randy. It seems there are different PVC versions as well the label to label differences. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 611 Registered: 10-2008 |
heres an audio clip with jim dickinson talking about the album, although he suggests it wasnt really an album??!! http://www.artistshousemusic.org/videos/ producer+jim+dickinson+on+making+big+sta r+s+third+sister+lovers | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3443 Registered: 05-2005 |
What a great clip. Nice find Kevin. | ||
| Rob Brookman Member Username: Rob_b Post Number: 1470 Registered: 08-2006 |
Interesting, Kev. Thanks for the Wiki link, too. It appears my Castle version matches the track listing of the "white label promo" LP Ardent released, which is interesting. I always figured it was just some record guy's opinion about how the record should flow. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1915 Registered: 10-2004 |
In my view, any track order that includes Downs (especially as the second track) has to be the result of some fairly perverse logic. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1761 Registered: 01-2005 |
Programed my 1992 Ryko disc of Sister/Lovers to the Japanese cd that Kevin mentioned and loved it: Stroke it Noel For You Kizza Me You Can't Have Me Night Time Blue Moon Take Care Jesus Christ Femme Fatale O, Dana Big Black Car Holocaust Kangaroo Thank You Friends Nature Boy Till The End Of The Day Dream Lover Downs Whole Lotta Shakin' Goin' On | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 613 Registered: 10-2008 |
my new version of sister/lovers came today, in a slick little digipak (why cant all cd's be digipaks, i hate jewel cases), with comprehensive sleeve notes from some guy called pete tomlinson written in 1978. my original ryko had notes by a certain rick clark i also have the lyrics in english and japanese!!! looking forward to hearing this later, the sound should hopefully be pristine given it is a very recent remaster. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 615 Registered: 10-2008 |
frig!!! as i said, japanese packaging etc etc. popped the cd in and kizza me starts playing. wot? took cd out and tracklisting is the same as the 1992 ryko!! on the phone to amazon and got a refund. padraig, if you ordered from amazon i would cancel if its not too late. this may be a one off blooper at the manufacturing plant but i very much doubt it. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 616 Registered: 10-2008 |
i dont know whats going on with this release!! i saw that hmv had a copy of what appears to be the japanese version of third,same sleeve as the bogus one i got from amazon, and with the 14 tracks in the same order as the pvc release (although not the 19 tracks that amazon listed, which was 14 pvc plus 5 bonus). i noticed the catalogue number was vack1298, so i did a google search on vack1298 and found lots of japanese text all leading to this cd. however, these vack1298 releases all show the tracklisting for the 1992 ryko which starts with kizza me!! i am starting to think that this japanese ryko with the pvc tracklist doesnt exist. i'll get my anorak on the way out :-) http://www.cdjapan.co.jp/detailview.html ?KEY=VACK-1298 | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3450 Registered: 05-2005 |
I hadn't yet ordered it Kevin, and now won't! Thanks for letting me know. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2299 Registered: 03-2005 |
Not to take any delight at your travails, Kevin, because I'd be pissed off too (it reminds me of the hassle trying to get decent CD versions of the 13th Floor Elevators' albums) but I find the sheer anarchy of all the different releases of Third to be just about perfect. It all seems so Alex Chilton. | ||
| Allen Belz Member Username: Abpositive Post Number: 1789 Registered: 09-2006 |
Kevin, is there any mention in those liner notes about who it was that did the PVC sequence. Could be that that information has been lost in the mists of time, but I'm kinda curious. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 619 Registered: 10-2008 |
sent it back to amazon alan, should have read the sleevenotes first!! randy is right, i think alex is chortling away. i'm scouring every known source for this bloody album, info is either scarce,misleading,inaccurate,bamboozling or non existant! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1917 Registered: 10-2004 |
Even though I have the PVC LP, I ripped my Ryko CD into iTunes and rearranged the tracking order to resemble the PVC and then burned that onto a cd-r, which I stuck in the Ryko case. That way, at least I have the preferred running order on CD. I could be TOTALLY wrong about this, but I remember reading somewhere that Alex had nothing to do with the PVC running order, much less its release, which is why the Ryko version (on which he did have input) is considered the official pressing. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 620 Registered: 10-2008 |
its a tangled web jeff. i've read on more than one occasion that the ryko was dickinsons idea of the running order, chilton had no input allegedly. after 2 or 3 hours scouring in vein for a cd with the pvc running order i had already resigned myself to what jeff has done - eg burning the pvc running order. i am also going to buy the vinyl version(on 4menwithbeards)which has the original sleeve, the pvc running order,direct from ardent master tapes and is on 180g vinyl to boot. https://www.auralexploits.com/product09_ 3148.htm?PHPSESSID=b9f3cb37a7a707a69bfe7 20e87712b85 found this which may be of interest http://www.stevehoffman.tv/forums/showth read.php?t=118195 | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 621 Registered: 10-2008 |
for those who dont want to trawl through the "stevehoffman" link above, i have have cherrypicked some posts from a guy called kent benjamin who seems to be in the know about what went on back in the 70s regarding the album, might even have been distantly "connected" to the big star camp. "I haven't heard the 'new' Japanese version. Would kinda like to have it. Re: Sister Lovers test pressings, I personally always preferred it sequenced the way it was on the original test pressing. BUT, you should know one fact (and this is fact, not supposition): there is NO finished final sequencing for the album, agreed upon by Alex, Jody and Dickinson. It was never finished. There isn't even a final choice of which songs (or takes) that were to be used. The test pressing was done originally just for the band, and I understand later, they made loads of 'em (this from Ardent staff at the time) to use to try to generate interest in the album being released. Neither the original test pressing (which was likely about 10 copies) or the later ones were intended as a finished album. The original vinyl copies were done WITHOUT any involvement from Chilton or Dickinson (I've never asked him, but would imagine Jody might've had some hand in that). The Ryko album was done without Chilton and Dickinson (neither of whom got paid for it, either). It DOES seem to collect almost all the releasable songs from the sessions, but IMHO, less is probably better, as some of those tracks -- much as I love having them -- should probably have not been included. Bottom line: re the lineup of the album, I'd recommend starting with the test pressing lineup, and just adding/deleting/resequencing to your heart's content. That's why god made CDRs (and before that, cassettes). As for me, well, I love so much of that material so much (including the PVC song line-up), that it survives pretty much whatever you or I can do to it in terms of a 'perfect' running order. Good songs are like that. So until somebody pays Alex to come up with a 'definitive' version of Sister Lovers, hey, just understand that for now, it is what you want it to be. As for me, having fallen in love with that music off one of the first test pressings, I'm just thrilled that it's become such a cult sensation, and delighted that anyone still cares to argue about the 'right' version of it. Back when it was just cassettes made off scratchy test pressings, I could never have imagined this happening." "Let me see if I can remember to answer these: I do NOT know how many of the first pressing there were. This was done circa early '75. I've always understood that it was basically the band (Alex, Jody, Jim), John Fry, Terry Manning, John King. I know Alex had several because I know of two copies he gave people (a girl and a guy who was later my best friend for a while). I'm just about certain the first copies were either blank Ardent labels or hand-written; I honestly think the first run of them was blank, because I remember fairly clearly my friend telling me the correct song titles for me to label my tape, I didn't copy them off the label. I just had a cassette off the copy Alex gave my friend. I think it was several years later when large quantities were pressed (IIRC, I'd always thought about 50, but I believe Manning told me that John King (the PR dude at Ardent) told him there were about 250. I have NEVER seen one with typed labels. NEVER. Can't verify if anything with a typed label is a boot or real. I can tell you that Downs in the earliest incarnation was called Take Downs. And that Alex ALWAYS called For You under the title Fireplace. He always wished Jody had titled the song differently. I'd have to ask Dickinson, but I think the recording of the Kinks song with Lesa is later, by about 2 years at least. I'm pretty sure that was recorded for the Barbarian release, not for Sister Lovers. My memory is fuzzy on this point, but I think there's a version of the same track with Alex singing, too; I think it's the Alex vocal that's earlier, not the Lesa one. I don't think the Barbarian records Lesa disc ever came out, tho. I could find out. I know I have it on cassette somewhere; I can't remember the 4th song, either. The Klitz were a different band with a different story -- Memphis' first all-girl punk band, with several seriously cute ladies (and Lesa). The Lesa Barbarian single and the Klitz' releases were two separate things, the Klitz came later. BTW, for what it's worth, it was Lesa who discovered the Cramps for all intents and purposes, and convinced Alex to go see them. That's a cool letter up there from John King. By the date, that must've been more or less just after the sessions ended, right? So the mass quantity test pressing logically must be earlier than I thought. And you know, it kinda makes sense that the few Memphis fans wouldn't have the mass-produced copies, because they weren't shopping the album in Memphis, were they? I've only seen a stock copy of September Gurls with the b-side once, tho at one point you could find boxes of the promos with the same song on each side in Memphis used stores. A bunch of us from Memphis can't even agree at this date what the b-side was (I say I'm In Love With A Girl, but I might be wrong -- it was around 25 years ago that I saw that one copy one time). Used to buy Big Star singles for next to nothing and give them to cool people. Bet I owned over a hundred, briefly. Only have dupes of one or two of 'em now. But you know the bottom line? The only person on the scene in Memphis in the late '70s who was straight and/or sober was Jody Stephens. And he doesn't remember alot of this stuff. The rest of us all remember somewhat different versions of 'the truth.' Feeling the elephant, as it were." | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 622 Registered: 10-2008 |
couldnt fit it all in one post as it was too big, so heres is some more from kent benjamin. "Well, to reply to meself....I just called my best friend who lived in Memphis until a few months ago, and as I warned you, he has a slightly different memory to me. Here goes: Til the End of the Day was recorded for Sister Lovers with Alex singing lead. The Lesa vocal was probably put on 1-2 years later. The other songs for the Barbarian EP were recorded somewhere around 1976-77. The EP was never released but Jim Blake (who had the 'label') did press up some copies and we think some picture sleeves, which he used to trade people who had something he wanted. Hence my confusion over whether it was released or not (not, he just pressed up a small number and gave them away). Re: Sister Lovers test pressings, he has one (which was blank, and now has his own handwriting on it), and remembers that back in the day he had three at one point. He also thinks that all of them came in an Ardent folder, with a blank label album, a press release, and a typed songlist of the songs (which was separate, not an insert). That sounds to me kinda like the press kit for Radio City which I do have a copy of. You know, I'm SURE that Alex might've written on copies he gave SOME people, but I doubt he hand-labeled many; that just does NOT sound like an Alex thing to do (I can remember taping over cassette copies of Cramps outtakes for him because he wanted a copy of something I had, and he didn't want me to give him a new tape and keep the other one). So, like me, he's never seen a Sister Lovers test pressing with a typed label or with hand-lettered Alex labels, either. I'm sure if I called up two other close friends in Memphis, Jody, Dickinson, and Manning, too, I could probably get you five more versions of 'the truth.'" | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3455 Registered: 05-2005 |
Thanks for that Kevin. I like the line about all the songs being great so it doesn't matter what order they're in. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1763 Registered: 01-2005 |
Thanks Kevin!!! Padraig, Agreed! But after programming my Ryko disc the other day I'm going to join the others and make a cd-r with the PVC running order. | ||
| skulldisco Member Username: Skulldisco Post Number: 623 Registered: 10-2008 |
i was visiting a friend last night who i have known since we were both at school in the 70s, and i brought up the topic of third/sister lovers. he goes to his massive vinyl collection and hauls out the uk release on aura records from 1978. "i bought it the week it came out" he says, "i remember a fantastic review in "sounds" magazine and just had to get it" how cool is that? i reckon he was 15 maybe 16 at the time. not sure its the best tracklisting i have ever seen mind you. from wiki "Also in 1978, the UK label Aura released a 12-track LP as "The Third Album". Side A: Kizza Me You Can’t Have Me Jesus Christ Downs Whole Lotta Shakin' Going On Thank You Friends Side B: O, Dana Femme Fatale Stroke It Noel Holocaust Nighttime Kanga Roo" | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 3458 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kevin, it follows exactly the first 12 tracks of my Line version! Michael, yeah, I'm going to make a CDR of the PVC version too. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1937 Registered: 10-2004 |
Well, not surprisingly, Chilton's untimely death speaks volumes about the American health care system: "At least twice in the week before his fatal heart attack, Chilton experienced shortness of breath and chills while cutting grass. But he did not seek medical attention, Kersting said, in part because he had no health insurance." | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2325 Registered: 03-2005 |
Wow, Jeff. Just wow. I love the image of Alex Chilton cutting grass. A regular dad. | ||
| Mark Leydon Member Username: Mark_leydon Post Number: 293 Registered: 05-2005 |
That's so sad Jeff. Horrible to think that such a respected and influential musician like Alex Chilton couldn't get access to health care when he needed it due to insurance concerns. I remember thinking the same thing when reading about Jay Bennett's untimely death last year. Apparently he had a number of health concerns leading up to his death including the need for a hip replacement - but lacked health insurance to cover the costs. It's hard to communicate how incomprehensible (and inhumane) the American health care system seems to someone like myself who has spent most of his life in countries with well functionting public health systems. All credit to Obama for at least moving things in the right direction. |