| Author | Message | ||
     Jeff Whiteaker |
So, just got back from my lunch break which I spent doing my rounds through the local record shops here in Berkeley, and I stumbled upon a Laughing Clowns LP in the dollar bin called "Law of Nature." Although I know and like the Saints, to this day I haven't actually heard the Laughing Clowns, and after all the discussion about them here recently, I figured it was worth a dollar to finally hear 'em. Trouser Press says of this album "The arrangements on Law of Nature continue to step on Kuepper's melodies — they're never harmonically brought out to their fullest. Also, the occasional awkwardness or disjointedness of his bitter lyrics is unintentionally emphasized by this kind of non-production, a frustrating undercutting of Kuepper's compositional efforts." I guess this topic is silly 'cause I'll hear the record when I get home tonight, but just curious what people think of it and/or what other records are worth seeking out. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
The only LC record I've got is "Ghosts of an ideal wife", which, I think, is the groups last and apparently it lay around a while unfinished. I think it's fantastic: 'No words of honour' is a great pop song and the title track grooves. Couple of weaker songs. "Laws of Nature" is the one I usually see in the greatest Aussie albums of all time lists, though like the Birthday Party's "Junkyard" LP, I've also read pieces dismissing it. The LC version of 'Eternally Yours' which graces the album is certainly classic, though. Their three or four releases on Hot records are easy enough to get but their first releases on Missing Link records and other s are not. I'm not the most knowledgeable person on the band so hopefully somebody else can help you out. And maybe they could help me out with the Aints as I saw "Ascension" and "Autocannibalism" for cheap on CD. I can only afford one at a time so are they worthwhile and which is the better of the two? By the way Jeff, there is an archived Ed Kuepper site which I found the other day which will tell you a bit about the LC's albums, though it didn't seem to mention the earlier ones. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Like most LC recordings, how much pleasure you get out of it becomes a function of how many times you listen to it. LofN wasn't one of my favorites but then maybe that's just me. The earlyier recordings had a nice rock energy coupled with the jazz elements that made it exciting and new. In the end I think Ed began to believe that he could just serve up any old tripe and the fans would just lap it up. I wouldn't expect to find any association with the GBs from this period. I finally got around to listening to the Everything that Flies EP again and I'm only 1/2 keen on it. Side B is good. Every Dog Has It's Day has a guitar part in it as good as anything Ed ever did. Nothing That Harms has a really nice Double Bass rhythm, enough to carry the whole track. But Side A is a little austere and drab sounding. Lacking in excitement, it is more typical of his later efforts (with the LCs). I'd describe LofN as cynical more than inspired. I think Ed became more concerned about milking his cash cow than making good music. (doing 3 or 4 major releases each year). Many of the songs sound more like the result of group improvisation than the product of a conscious song writting effort. As a result the tracks often lack good melodies on the guitar. There is some joy in the recording, Jeff is still in fine form and Louise is up to her usual tricks on the Sax. I had a pleasent surprise when I pulled out the lyric sheet that comes inside LofN, what I found (in addition) was a hand written set-list that I swiped of the stage from one of there gigs in Melbourne in '84. I was often up the front. | ||
| Randy Adams |
I'll be interested in hearing about the Laughing Clowns. It's only over the past year or so that I lapped up all the Ed Kuepper albums like a thirsty cat. Interesting observation about the later LC records reflecting an effort on the part of Kuepper to cash in on things by putting out whatever. His own releases start to show a bit of that too in the later 90s, but for my money earlier things from "Character Assassination" on back are just nonstop great. And the later things are still worth having--they just need pruning. | ||
| david nichols |
Like Mark (I think?) my favourite LCs album is Mr. Uddich Smuddich, but unlike Mark I really don't think that any failings of the last 2 albums has anything to do with commercial considerations. And they are both great albums anyway. Some may find it interesting that there are 2 versions: an early repressing adds 'Possessions', the b-side from the Eternally Yours single, and one of the most commercial songs on the album. There was a wonderful film clip for 'Eternally Yours', too. What a great song and what a great band - there's very little they did wrong, in my book, musically speaking. Good purchase. 'Eternally Yours' is absolutely a classic LCs moment. By the way, re: noodling, improvising - when I spoke to Peter Walsh for the book I made some remark about Ed Kuepper co-opting other people's improvisations into his reworkings of old LC songs, and P. Walsh said actually Ed wrote every part - so what sounds very spontaneous is actually very structured. Amazing! | ||
| david nichols |
PS Listening to the Saints' Prehistoric Sounds (the 3rd album) makes the Laughing Clowns make perfect sense as a deviation from the original punky outlook. This album is pretty hard to get in the US I believe (at least, it wasn't released there originally) but it's a masterpiece. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Raven has an excellent comprehensive anthology of The Saints' Kuepper-era recordings. It's easy to get "Prehistoric Sounds" that way. The French Fan Club label also released it (with four earlier tracks added on) in the 1980s, so it's not been too hard to get. I agree it's a great album. I don't understand why the Saints' creative growth was such a problem with the punks. The over-rated Clash didn't keep making the same record either. I don't deal with vinyl any longer; my turntable is a belt type that needs help getting started and the stylus is tired. Were there ever CD versions of the early Laughing Clowns' releases? | ||
| david nichols |
Like I said, the English just didn't like The Saints. They looked wrong, they were too adventurous. The early LC records have been anthologised quite a bit on CD but I don't think the originals have been reissued intact. I am pretty sure for instance Mr. Uddich Smuddich which was the first 'real' album (as opposed to 12" EPs, etc) has not been issued as a CD. Just a quick sentence in support of some of the post-Kuepper Saints' material. The Monkey Puzzle is, I think, unjustifiably overlooked. I am not that au fait with the canon after that, but when I have happened upon later releases they haven't been as ghastly as everyone seems to think. In my opinion. | ||
| david nichols |
And re: The Aints, Ascension is a classic. Autocannibalism I'm not so familiar with but it wasn't as well-received at the time, whatever that might indicate. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Jeff, If I where you I'd get the History Of Rock'n'Roll Volume One (HOT 1010). It has been remasted for CD and contains some of the Prince Melon material from the period Lindy and I where writing about. It can be purchased from the UK or out of Australia from Hot Record's online Shop I'm not saying that the later stuff is without value. What Lindy thinks of it I do not know. What I do know is that we where both writing about the material that came proir to 1981. You can judge for yourself the relative merit. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Thanks for indulging me w/ all the LC comments. After giving the album a few spins, I have to say it's pretty good, but I'm convinced that this could've been done (and most likely was done, at some point) slightly better by the group. That said, for a dollar, it was worth it. Parts make me think of the first Birthday Party record, only more tuneful. I can see where on some songs, the melodies could be fleshed out a little more, but I recognize that probably wasn't quite the point. I'm definitely going to seek out some other stuff, though it'll probably have to be found online as I doubt LC stuff is easy to come by here in the US. Mark, is "History of..." a comp? According to Trouser Press, it's LC's best full-length, but they seem oblivious to the fact that it's a comp. This will probably be my next purchase. How is the earlier stuff different? As for the Saints "Prehistoric Sounds," I only know the first two albums, and haven't heard that one. How is it different from the first two? I imagine they were shedding some of their punk roots, branching out or something? At any rate, I just saw a vinyl copy of that in one of my local record shops for $20.00. Is it worth that price? | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
If I every came across it here in Australia (and I never do), I'd imagine it would be more than that. There is a double CD that came out a couple of years ago called "Wild About You" that is a collection of all the Saints' studio recordings from the Kuepper era. It's about $40 AUS so if you have the first two albums you are probably better off picking up that copy of "Sounds" that you saw. | ||
| david nichols |
Prehistoric Sounds definitely worth $20. Earlier recordings = different lineup. Kuepper and Wegener only constants. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes it's a best of. In fact it's the best of the best since many of the earlyer tracks are lifted from the Greatest Hits 1980 compilation which was itself a best of. The other tracks are lifted from the first Missing link EP (which is generally not as good), Uddich Schmuddich (which is fantastic, but not what we where talking about) and the 1982 EP Everything that Flies which does have one or two good tracks (but again, not the material we discussed). How does it differ? Probably the most important difference (to me) is that I think you will be thrilled by this compilation, whereas I can hardly stop myself from believing that you must be feeling nonplussed buy what you have got. This compilation is the best of what is commonly available. Oh, you mean musically? You know I struggle when I try to talk the technical language of music, but I'll try. In one word, melody or the lack of it. Ed started up the band as a Rock/Jazz fusion band. The idea wasn't new (it was first introduced into Australia by the legendary Australian Jazz musician, Graeme Bell, in the 1940's) but what was important (to those who knew) was that Rock/Jazz fusion has had a long and unique history in Australia. (some say that Graeme actually invented the genre but I think this is just a case of exuberant Aussie pride) The name Laughing Clowns also refers to another peculiar Australian thing. A Laughing Clown's throat is something you stuff with ping-pong balls in an attempt to win prizes at a circus side-show. Anyway, to get back on track, obviously the key element of any fusion of styles is the balance between the styles. The recordings from the earlier period have a much stronger melodic structure. The rhythm section and Ed's guitar melodies, remains basically rock'n'roll whilst Louise (Sax) Peter (Trumpet) and Dan (Piano) punctuate and experiment with the Jazz theams (not that this arrangement was set in stone, they all share duties). But it is this basic arrangement that can be heard on some of the SMAL tracks and more prevalently on the demo for SMAL. They give the listener the impression of a master song writer at work because they are strongly structured arangements. The later recordings, including the one you have, generally don't have strong melodies and superb rhythmic structues around which the improvisations and/or augmentations can take place. They sound like group improvisations and don't leave the listener with the strong impression of a deliberate creative effort. Whether they are or not, I can not tell. It is the fact that I can not tell that bothers me the most. There is little or no melody. A number of explainations are possible for this pattern of recordings but the most obvious one was the need to put out many recordings in as short a time as possible so as to exploit to the maximum their growing popularity. The compilation I have suggested is representative of a period, which I reguard to be the finest in the band's history. (there are many sad ommisions, but you can only fit so much on the one CD). Almost all of the recordings from that period are as good. One listen will leave you in no doubt about the relative merit of the material in question. Repeated listenings will probably have you come in your pants. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Ok, my bad. It had to be 1950's. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Ok, my bad. It had to be 1950's. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Prehistoric Sounds is the essential Saints' album. It continued the trend toward real songs and away from the most restrictive aspects of punk that was already started on "Eternally Yours." The "Wild About You" antho is comprehensive and costs less than $40 US. Maybe you can find it second-hand at Amoeba. I recommend it unless you are a vinyl junkie. It also mops up the eps. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Mark, thanks for LC descriptions. I can see what you mean in terms of Law of Nature's lack of melody, as i'd say half the album suffers from a distinct lack of it, not to mention a kind of meandering and random approach to chord changes that doesn't always work. I like half the album (side 1), and Eterntally Yours and Possessions are definite stand-outs. But without having heard any other LC stuff to compare this to, I can definitely see how this album lacks a certain something. Interesting thing is that it doesn't sound improvised to me at all. There's that randomness with the structure, but it all sounds kind of planned and rehearsed to me. Still, I think side 1 would've made a great ep. I'm definitely going to hunt down History of Rock 'n Roll. Very, very curious about that, especially after Mark's post above. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Three of the tracks on that compliation are lifted from the self titled Missing Link EP and are well below par.(I think they are really shit when compared to the other 7, but I'll let you be the judge). The very first recordings seem to have suffered from the same problems as the 1984 recordings in that they don't have strong melodies. It does come down to a matter of personal taste when evaluating the relative merit of these recordings. But I didn't want you to think that what you have got is the same material as that which I think influenced the GBs. All of that stuff had to have been recorded prior to SMAL. My personal perspective about the LC material is that there is a wide disparity between the very good recordings and the horribly woeful ones. Their good ones will give you a real buzz, their bad ones can leave you feeling flat. | ||
| Paul E |
I bought "Laughter Around the Table" when I was 16 - nearly 20 years ago - I loved it then and still view it as one of the greatest album's of the 80's. Its quite unlike anything else you may ever hear - to get an idea imagine the Velvets rocking out with Interstellar Space era Coltrane wigging out at the same time....the best moments are nothing short of exhilarating and Kuepper's never been so good - scour eBay and s/h record shops for this masterpiece - and if you don't like it I'll buy it off you because my copy's nearly worn out. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Paul, I was just on ebay and there's a guy in the US selling that LP, "Ghosts of an Ideal Wife" and Kuepper's "Rooms of the Magnificent" for around $6 US each. No one has bidded on them yet and the auctions end in a couple of days. They are supposedly all in near mint condition. Depending on where you live, though, shipping can be quite expensive. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes, it's an exceptionally good compilation from their middle period. The Everything That Flies EP certainly benefited from the inclusion of the three Uddich-Schmuddich tracks. Overall, very worthwhile owning, including as it does, the exceptionally long When What You See. On Uddich-Schmuddich the track time is 10:21. Also, I discovered that there are in fact two track listings for the Album and/or EP called Everything That Flies. My earlier assesment was based on the Prince Melon 4 track EP by that name (PM 03012). There is also an exceptionally good Rough Trade Deutschland compilation buy the same name (RTD14/PM 03012) which is in fact an album (around 50 minutes and 9 tracks!). | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Jeff: Yes, Eternally Yours is a fine track, almost up to speed with their earlier recordings. It's worth noting that there are two track listings for LofN (a 9 track and a 10 track). Unless you are exceptionally lucky, you have the 10 track. The 9 track was quickly withdrawn and replaced by the 10 track. I have only the 9 track. The important thing is that the 9 track has a different mix and/or version of Eternally Yours. Presumably it was withdrawn and replaced with the other version (which I have not heard) because Ed wasn't happy with the original version. That means that it is most likely that your version of Eternally Yours is better than mine. The original version has Ed playing an "an acoustic guitar line in the beginning of the song and more bass guitar throughout". I assume that the version you have is without the "acoustic guitar line" but I don't know what it was replaced by, since I've never heard the more common version. I feel exceptionally lucky to have the 9 track. It wasn't a conscious choice, just a legacy of on-the-spot fanatical devotion. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Mark, I have the 10 track. But I don't mind since it adds the song Possessions, which I think is one of the standout tracks. So, I guess that probably means I would think mine is better than yours.  | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
It is, by all accounts. Does an acoustic guitar feature on Eternally Yours? If not, what replaced it, if anything? Different takes/mixes/edits of the same track sometimes appear on different compilations and/or releases under the same name. Unless you have both versions to compare back-to-back, it isn't clear what the differences are. The point being, we aren't always talking about the same material, even though we might think we are. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
It is, by all accounts. Does an acoustic guitar feature on Eternally Yours? If not, what replaced it, if anything? Different takes/mixes/edits of the same track sometimes appear on different compilations and/or releases under the same name. Unless you have both versions to compare back-to-back, it isn't clear what the differences are. The point being, we aren't always talking about the same material, even though we might think we are. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I'm having line problems, sorry about the multiple posts. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Well, I didn't notice any acoustic guitar on my version of Eternally Yours - or if it's there, it's not audible in the mix. Just steady, slightly distorted, strummy, electric rhythm guitar, with the sax taking care of the melodies. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
On my version, what is clearly an acoustic guitar plays a short opening phrase (about 10 or 12 individual notes), right at the start of the track, and is mixed over the top of Ed's jangly lead guitar and another electric rhythm guitar. The latter is mixed deep into the background. With 3 guitars playing all at the same time, it is a little difficult to sort out what's what. Ed's jangly lead guitar quickly takes over the melody but it also sounds like it might be a semi-acoustic guitar. Only the rhythm guitar is clearly electric. How does the Ed's lead guitar sound to you? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Mark, or anyone in this thread, I just scored this on ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=4012753567 And it's cheap. I'm preparing to be "thrilled." | ||
| david nichols |
Certainly is cheap, a bargain some might say. If this is your first Laughing Clowns experience I think you will be thrilled but of course you must keep us all posted. | ||
| david nichols |
Oh I just realised Jeff you STARTED this thread, so this is your second LC experience, but I am sure you will still be thrilled. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Hey Jeff, I just won the same thing the other day on the Australian ebay except that, not to brag, mine also comes with "Ghost of an Ideal Wife" (I already have this one on CD, but I'm a bit of a vinyl junkie). I also won "Prehistoric Sounds" off the same seller. Total price before postage for the 3LPs= AU $13.50. Cheap! I'm also preparing to be thrilled. However, I do wonder if I'd be more thrilled to save my pennies and buy the two box sets that are coming out soon. I'm sure they'll cost the earth though - could make for excellent birthday presents. | ||
| andrew stafford |
Just a minor correction on that Pete. There is a box set for the Saints, the Clowns is just a CD (although may be a double CD, not sure on that yet). Being a vinyl junkie myself however I wouldn't consider any of those purchases a waste! I just got a vinyl copy of Law of Nature myself, which I still think is the Clowns' best full album. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
According to an Ed Kuepper article which I read in yesterdays Inpress paper the Laughing Clowns release will be a 3CD anthology containing everything the band ever recorded. Ed remastered the stuff himself with Don Bartley. The article mainly spoke of the reissues and the possibility of a Bailey-Kuepper reunion (unlikely). Continuing my current obsession with all things Ed, I picked up a copy of the Aints "Ascension" today. Listening to it right now in fact. Me likes very much. I will not be seeing him play this Saturday night in my home city of Melbourne as he is charging a rather large $22 a head and I have a dinner party to attend. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Fuck that's a good buy, you wanna sell it? You better find a pair of Y-fronts before listening to tracks like Ghost Beat, Collapse Board, Every Dog, Mad Flies and Sometimes (I find they accommodate errections so much more comfortably) Everything That Flies is very good but not 100% as good. The other three are interesting but not exciting. Get ready to rock! | ||
| Randy Adams |
That's a VERY phallucratic image there, Mark. I haven't explored the LCs or the Aints yet. It sounds like I should. The promised LC reissue sounds perfect for me, as I'm over vinyl. At this time I'm still absorbing all of Kuepper's great solo albums. Has he released any new work since Smile Pacific? Besides the instrumentals? What's your favorite Kuepper solo album, Pete? I'm thinking "Character Assassination" but the best moments of "Honey Steel's Gold" really blow me away. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes it is Randy ..must be the red hair. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Interestingly, I also just won Prehistoric Sounds on vinyl on ebay. This one came out to $16.00 US, but that's less than the copy I stumbled upon in a local shop a few weeks ago for $20. I downloaded Brisbane Security City and loved it, so I thought I'd take the plunge. After a bit of web surfing, I've found Prehistoric Sounds gets mixed reviews. People on this board say it's essential, while a lot of folks elsewhere seem to think it's "flat" and complain about it not being "punk" enough. Whatever. I have a feeling their "difficult 3rd" will impress me greatly. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Jeff: "He Lives My Life". Randy, I've actually got a long way to go with my Kuepper obsession. I only have 'Electrical Storm', 'Today Wonder' and 'Honey Steels Gold' of his solo cannon. I only got 'Storm' a couple of weeks ago on vinyl which I'm trying to listen to as little as possible until my mother comes through with her much belated Xmas present: my new stylus. Sounds great though, really like the title track, "Master of Two Servants" and "Rainy Night". I'd have to say I like 'Today Wonder' the best but I can't really be sure for my 2nd hand CD copy of 'Honey' skips through a couple of tracks. I much prefer the 'Today' version of "Everything I've got belongs to You" though. "The Way I Made you Feel" is a corker on 'Honey' as is the title track. Can't be certain though, which is a good indication of quality music. Jeff, I am sure the complaint about 'Prehistoric Sounds' not being punk enough is just a narrow mind at work. What is punk? Safety pins and leather? I have had many an alchohol fueled debate over this topic. I'm sure the difficult 3rd will impress me greatly too. I'm counting on it. | ||
| Padraig Collins |
No more phallucratisms please Mark. I nearly brought my breakfast up. The Aint's are awesome Randy. Ascension is the best. The guitars are turned to 11 all the way through. It rocks like a hurricane. Honey Steels Gold is my favourite of his solo albums, but I'm basing this on only having heard maybe six of them. | ||
| Randy Adams |
For my money, "Eternally Yours" and "Prehistoric Sounds" are the essential Saints albums. The first is a beginner effort, more thrash than substance. What really got people up in arms about "Prehistoric Sounds" at the time, I think, is the use of horns and the growing use of darker, minor chord-based songs--probably Kuepper's doing and already started on "Eternally." Punk was necessarily a limited phenomenon. It's big purpose was to snatch r 'n r from the professionals and give it back to the kids. But once that was accomplished, I don't think there was much left for it to do. You either had to break up pronto after making your statement like the Pistols, or evolve like the Saints. Or best of all, use punk as a springboard for something new like Howard Devoto did when he left the Buzzcocks and formed Magazine. And even PIL was interesting, if it sounds like crap now. But then, I have a heavy bias towards what I call art punk--the stuff made by folks like Mark E. Smith and Magazine and Nick Cave. | ||
| david nichols |
I have been listening to a pre-recorded cassette copy of PIL's Second Edition (aka Metal Box) in the car for the last week - and it sounds great. Incredible bass. Prehistoric Sounds not punk enough = useless criticism, because it's still the best of those first three, I'm sure. Not that the other two aren't brilliant. Yes, Ascension is magnificent though I haven't heard the 3rd one Autocannibalism and the 1st one, SLSQ, is a bit throwaway (a live album of Kuepper reclaiming the Saints). | ||
| andrew stafford |
Well, I've just scored big time - just received in the post a copy of Ascension on white vinyl courtesy of Living Eye records in Canberra. Beautiful, sounds magnificent. SLSQ is absolutely essential for fans of the original Saints but on Ascension it goes off in another direction again. As for Prehistoric Sounds. I can't say it's better or worse than Stranded because them's apples and oranges you're talking about (which probably makes Eternally Yours a pear?) All three are essential. For me Eternally Yours is perhaps the least of the three; for others it seems to be the most. But Stranded was the proverbial shot heard around the world. I talk about the three albums in more detail in my book (forthcoming). Fantastic to hear the Laughing Clowns release is a 3CD package, thanks for that information Pete. | ||
| Padraig Collins |
David, Autocannibalism isn't as good as Ascension, but it certainly has its moments. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
david nichols said, "I have been listening to a pre-recorded cassette copy of PIL's Second Edition (aka Metal Box) in the car for the last week - and it sounds great. Incredible bass." I LOVE 2nd Edition, such a wonderfully bizarre and fucked-up album. Pretty era-defining, really. The dub bass, the atonal shards of guitar, the disco beats, the repetition, the general weirdness - incredible. And yeah, the whole production sounds really cool. They issued it on 2 discs so as to preserve the throbbing bass sound via wider grooves in the vinyl. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
There's a guy in Bondi Beach selling heaps of Laughing Clowns LPs on the Australian ebay at the moment. He claims that most of the records are in "Never Played" condition. Check out this one and follow the sellers other items for the rest (there's also a mint vinyl copy of Jack Frost that he's selling): http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=58622&item=4014531634 | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Love that DAAS beauty, I don't think it will go cheap. I like the look of that CURIOUS (yellow) CHARMS AND BLUES LP but I don't know anything about it. I would like to own a copy of History of R&R. The CD can still be bought for 20 aussie pesos (new), so I guess the reserve is already close to what it should sell for. I wouldn't be prepaired to pay much for the first EP but the he real gem amongst those for sale is Uddich-Schmuddich. It's like a 45 minute orgasm. Given its rerelease isn't far away now, that should put a cap on the prices. | ||
| david nichols |
Always in my mind, The Laughing Clowns, Birthday Party, Go-Betweens cohort includes a fourth brilliant band, The Moodists. Melbourne people note (from an email a couple of days ago): 'the moodists will be re grouping on 26th June 2004 for a show at the Tote in Collingwood. They will be joined on this rare occasion by Teen Wolf and also the Muddy Spurs. A night of gratuitous bastardry is guaranteed.' The Moodists comp released by W Minc last year apparently recently got a rave review in US Rolling Stone, which is interesting. Surely, Mark, you were a Moodists fan back in the day? You should come down to the Tote! | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I'm not familiar with the bulk of their recordings and I've never seen them live. I did buy the Fitzroy Street single Where the trees walk downhill. As a younger man, I was drawn into the nice relaxed feel of a drug induced St. Kilda halucination but I can't see myself fitting into that image now. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Thanks for the tip, David. I'd say that I'd be there with bells on except there is a possibililty the Happy Lonesome will be playing that night at the Vic in Brunswick. That always fucking happens. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Got my "Prehistoric Sounds" and Clown records this morning. Listening to "Sounds" right now and can already tell that I'll love it. Randy, I bought an old copy of Kuepper's "Everybody's Got To" the other day which is an interesting album. I've read that it was his first big budget, commercial effort but it's so darn strange. Sure, there's big catchy choruses everywhere, bad sounding keyboard-horns and often cheesy back-up vocals (it's from 1988) but there is some great songs. 'Lonely Paradise' is beautiful, as is 'Nothing Changes in my House'. The opening riff in 'Too Many Clues' sounds suspiciously like 'Know Your Product' and the whole first side reminds me a bit of, dare say it, the Cure circa "Kiss Me, Kiss Me, Kiss Me". And Randy, my impression and immediate intimacy with this record definetly benefit from there being a lyric sheet. You must agree that Kuepper, and Bailey for that matter, slur most of their lyrics into obscurity. | ||
| david nichols |
I had long been of the opinion that Rooms of the Magnificent was my favourite Kuepper record - the second solo record. I had a listen over the weekend, and I actually think it hasn't held up as well as I thought, though Also Sprach the King of Eurodisco, which now seems very reminiscent of Hunters and Collectors (eg 'The Slab') is still one of his finest moments (that is saying something of course) and other tracks like Sea/Air are excellent. Who here has heard Raoul Graf's album that Kuepper played a writing/co-writing/producer/arranger role on? | ||
| Randy Adams |
Pete, you are spot on about "Too Many Clues." I'll bet Kuepper thought that was pretty funny. I agree about "Lonely Paradise" and "Nothing Changes in my House." My beef with "Everybody's Got To" is the major label production which is too metallic-sounding for my taste (maybe it's my CD)and too many of the songs sound like they are aimed to be radio hits so the whole thing winds up sounding a bit one-note. Btw, there's another version of "Nothing Changes in my House" dating from 1987 that is better because the sound isn't so cranked up. It can be gotten on CD on "The Butterfly Net" or else on the original 12 inch EP. "Butterfly Net" also has a remake of "Everything's Fine" and LC song "Sometimes" so it's very much worth having. "Sea Air" is my favorite from "Rooms of the Magnificent." There are great moments on every Keupper disc. I think the reason that "Character Assassination" is my favorite is because of its predominantly acoustic sound. No major label thing happening there. At the risk of sounding idiotic, I have to say something about the hard-to-define uniquely Australian musical sound that comes out in songs like "Sea Air" and "Nothing Changes in My House" and a lot of "Character Assassination" and certainly on a good number of GoBees things, most obviously on "Cattle and Cane" and "Spring Rain." It's all over the Paul Kelly stuff I've heard (so far only "Post" and "Ways and Means.") But I find it going much further back too, to things like "Long Time Gone" by Terry Walker & the Hi Five, a bunch of Easybeats things, some Bee Gees songs (for example "Wine and Women") and even certain covers like Betty McQuade's great 1960 version of J.D.Loudermilk's "Midnight Bus" with its tremolo-bar guitar and flute fills. She also does a great version of his "Blue Train." The sound draws on country but isn't bogged down with concerns about "purity" and incorporates sounds that this American isn't used to hearing on our local product. There's also that Australian accent which is just great for singing. It's a combination that's like heroin to me. You folks really have it going on when it comes to music. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Why, thank you Randy. I'll post that on a billboard somewhere here in Melbourne. Seriously though, I know what you mean. One of my very first posts on this board dealt with this same hard to define subject. I was worried I sounded idiotic too and I ultimately put it down to reverb and the notion of wide open spaces, which is ridiculously reductive when I think about it now. Reverb was everywhere in the eighties, not just down under. Paul Kelly sounds nothing like Daniel Lanois, as I pointed out in that other post. Have you heard Kelly's radio staples "Before Too Long" and "To Her Door"? These two songs are prime examples of what I think you're getting at. | ||
| Andrew McVicar |
I think that, despite the very "80s" production, Everybody's Got To is ultimately a stronger, more coherent record than Rooms of the Magnificent. However, I actually think both of those pale into insignificance beside the best of Kuepper's 90s work, particularly Honey Steel's Gold from 1991. The sound is more sparse, and benefits from Chris Abrahams subtle keyboards. "The Way I Made You Feel" is an absolute classic, and a song I can definitely imagine Go-Betweens fans connecting with. On the subject of Laughing Clowns, I'd disagree that the first mini-LP was below par - in fact Kuepper himself in an interview suggested it was the Clowns album he was most pleased with. Songs like "I Want to Scream" and "Eulogy?" have a really strong atmospere, a sort of sense of excitement and foreboding at the same time. I think the later Clowns albums were an attempt by Kuepper to get back to a more song-based structured approach (from the wild experimentalism of Uddich-Smuddich, with the stand-up bass and trumpet). For my money, Law of Nature however is a slightly dull and uninspired album, though with Ghosts of an Ideal Wife they bowed out on a real high. Apparently, the band was falling apart as they recorded it, but that only seems to have added to the excitement of the recordings! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Okay, so my copy of History of Rock 'n Roll arrived in the mail the other day, and I have to agree wholeheartedly with Mark that it's a much better collection of songs, and much better place to start, than Laws of Nature. In fact, I think Laws of Nature sounds incredibly uninspired and kinda soul-less in comparison. I've only listened to it a couple of times, but immediate stand-outs are "Theme from 'Mad Flies, Mad Flies'," "Sometimes," and "the Laughing Clowns," plus a song or two from side two, except I can't rememeber the titles. I really like the stuff with the stand-up bass, like 'Mad Flies'. Quite a stellar comp overall, though there are a few duds. I also finally got Prehistoric Sounds, and I'm really liking it a lot. "Church of Indifference" is an incredible pop gem, and I really dig "All Times Through Paradice." Need to listen to side two some more, as I've been stuck on what is a pretty incredible side one. You can definitely tell how Kuepper really seemed to influence things musically here, and it's not surprising to hear what he went on to do with the Laughing Clowns. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Hi Jeff, I was wondering what your impressions were of these two fantastic records which I received last Thursday. Can't really say much about the Laughing Clowns record though, for I can't stop listening to "Prehistoric Sounds". 'Brisbane' and 'The Chameleon' are my favourites at the moment, but every track is killer. What amazes me the most is how Dylanesque some of the lyrics are in their often biting sarcasm and rambling ways. Also, I'm loving Ed's simple yet tasteful guitar playing, especially on 'The Prisoner' and 'All Times Through Paradise'. It's an album, like "Liberty Belle", where the arrangements and non-stop flow of great material certify it in my mind as a classic. And I've had it for all of a week! | ||
| Randy Adams |
I first heard "Prehistoric Sounds" about fifteen years ago. And as will happen in the succeeding years when I get into big enthusiasms for other folks, it went for long periods of time without being played. But "The Prisoner" has always been one of those songs that sticks with me no matter what. I came to PS after being introduced to the Saints with "Out in the Jungle"--in my opinion not at all a bad album and one which follows surprisingly in the footsteps of PS. So we have to give Chris Bailey some credit for what happened on PS as well. I look forward to hearing some Laughing Clowns. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Pete, I pretty much agree with you. I'm still really taken with side one. Except for the excellent "The Prisoner" and one other song, I'm not too thrilled with side 2. Side one seems to be a bit moodier, and at times pretty, which I really like. I can't stop listening to "Church of Indifference," such an amazingly perfect pop song, with an almost airy, melodic guitar riff. "All Times Through Paradise" is a sadly beautiful, deeply moving song. Last night it struck me just how influential this record must've been. I mean, the first track, "Swing for the Crime," was totally ripped off by Nick Cave more than once (think: the verses of John Finn's Wife). The Strokes sound uncannily like "Every Day's a Holiday" and they probably don't even know it. I think it's criminal that it took me so long to discover this record. It's doubly criminal that at least here in the US, the Saints never seem to be mentioned in the same breath as other requisite 70s punk bands, the Clash, Wire, Stranglers, Richard Hell, et al. I'm assuming it's not that way in Australia(?). | ||
| Randy Adams |
The Clash? Who are they? | ||
| david nichols |
I would say, Jeff, that there is a significant degree of pride in The Saints and Radio Birdman in Australia. RB material is perhaps not as available as Saints. Randy: did you see that great movie Bring it On? There's a joke about The Clash that's even funnier than yours! | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Joke about the Clash in Bring It On? I must have missed that. I don't know about your assertion that Radio Birdman material is more widely available than the Saints, David. Those two Birdman albums were reissued recently by Citadel who did a similarly good job on those two Scientists collections. I see these CDs everywhere in Melbourne. If you're talking about post-Kuepper Saints, those records are indeed everywhere, but I never see copies of "Eternally Yours" or "Prehistoric Sounds" in shops or I would have bought them a long time ago. Neither bands are household names, if that is what you meant Jeff. However, any self-respecting Australian who loves their rock, even if they haven't heard much of the two bands, knows of the mythology of the Saints and Radio Birdman. Growing up, I used to see the "(I'm) Stranded" and "Know Your Product" video clips all the time on Rage (Australia's premier all night music video show). I don't think Radio Birdman are quite as well known, though they seemed to be the more influential band with the hard rock revival here in the late eighties, early ninties. Birdman always had that Detroit thing going in their sound, (mixed with a bit of Doors) so I think of them as being the lesser of two great groups in regards to their too obvious borrowings from the MC5 and the Stooges. Reading about them now, the fact that Denis Tek saw these bands first hand and adapted it here before almost anywhere else is a sense of pride in itself: the direct link to the heart of Detroit. Birdman and the Stooges are a big thing with people in their early to mid-30s from my home town of Geelong. Birdman played there, something the Saints never did. Perhaps it is that Geelong also houses a massive Ford factory and is very working class in general. They build engines at the factory in Geelong for all you car enthusiasts. In fact, I remember seeing on the news that they built the very last V-8 engine there a few years back. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Radio Birdman actually penetrated as far as central California in the late 70s when I was still there. Mind you, I'm not sure they got much further than myself and a couple of my friends, but we were into "Radios Appear." Oddly, I didn't hear the Saints' records until vastly later. I heard OF the Saints--just never got around to actually listening to them. Right now I'm absorbing the fabulous CD antho of the Moodists with the liner notes by David. I had never heard of this group until they were mentioned on here. I see them as a more committed, more arty take on the Stooges/Pere Ubu influence than RB. They just sound absolutely great, and their recording engineer had just the right idea--great raunchy low budget 60's sound but not so extreme as, say, "White Light/White Heat." So I guess I'll be exploring Dave Graney in the next few months. This bulletin board has been really useful for me. I've never seen "Bring It On." Back in the late 70s/early 80s, I used to dismiss The Clash as "punk for the imported beer set." I don't know if that has the same resonance outside of the U.S. To be fair though, Joe Strummer and Co. collaborated on a pretty clever Ellen Foley album in 81 or 82 which borrowed from the likes of Francoise Hardy and Scott Walker. | ||
| toddslater |
After spending the last hour or so scrolling thru the assorted topics on this board i finally hit on one i like. To the guy above (Randy ?). Mate all i can say is that it's a great family like tree to work from. Dave Graney, start with 'Lure of the Tropics' and work out from there. Personally i can't go past 'Night of the Wolverine' 1993 (track 11 Night of the Wolverine 2 is a classic with Tex Perkins crooning on 'The King of Adelaide'). Before you know it Randy you'll be into the 'Dirty Three' another great Melbourne band containing 'The Moodists' Mick Turner on guitar. Warren Ellis played violin on a couple of tracks on Robert Forster's 3rd solo record 'If I had A New York Girlfried' which is a covers record and has a numerous amount of the 'Melbourne Mafia' backing him. As for Joe Strummer i have had the Johnny Cash boxed set stuck in the stereo all autumn, his duet with Cash on Bob Marley's 'Redemption Song' is wonderful. Also on the same disc is a great duet with Nick Cave on a tradional song called 'Cindy'. Robert Forster's 'Calling from a Country Phone'(an understated classic)has also been on high rotation at home. |