| Author | Message | ||
     Padraig Collins |
Fireboy is listed on the website as having been released in March 1993, but I was given a present of it before leaving Sydney to move back to Ireland in December 1992. I know this copy was bought in the now-defunct Edels Records on Pitt St. Did they mistakenly sell some pre-release copies? Or was the album supposed to have been released in December and then suddenly pulled and held back til March for fear it would get lost in the Christmas 'best ofs' market? I'd appreciate any information here as it has always bugged me, wondering how I had it three months before it was supposedly released. | ||
| Babs Keatings neighbour |
I bought it in Freebird Records on the day it was released in early March 1993. However, I remember Dave Fanning playing 'Riddle in the Rain' and 'Lighting Fires' as early as January '93. As it happens, I don't recall it featuring in any end-of-year best-ofs in 1993 either. By the way, does anyone else think that the quality of the mastering on 'Fireboy' is pretty atrocious. This, added to the inclusion of 'The Pawnbroker' and some of Grant's worst ever lyrics (last verse of 'Surround Me', first verse of 'The Day My Eyes Came Back') not to mention the intensely annoying 'Bathe (in the water)' are my only gripes with what I consider to be a pretty decent, albeit patchy, album. | ||
| Gareth |
'The Pawnbroker' and 'Who's Side Are You On' are both awful. I like 'Bathe' a lot though. Overall it's a good album but is let down but some howlers. 'Fingers' is a terrific song though. You are right about some of the lyrics - they seem to fit the 'if it rhymes, it works' mould which Grant repeatedly falls down on. He never made a great solo album whereas i think Robert made two. But none of Grant's albums are as weak as 'Warm Nights'. Could go on for days on this thread... | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
I love "The Day My Eyes Came Back" and "Signs of Life", as well as the title track. Other than that, I'm not too into Fireboy. I think all of Grant's albums sound pretty awful, honestly (I'm talking production, mastering, etc...). I also agree with Gareth about Grant's lyrics. I do like Robert's Warm Nights, however, though I've never been into the deliberately lo-fi production. I think by far the worst solo effort between the both of them is NY Girlfriend, which to me always sounded rushed and half-assed. Of course none of this answers the first poster's question about release dates. | ||
| Hamish |
seems we are as split on solo albums as on the best GBs albums. My favourite Grant album is In Your Bright Ray. I think it and Danger in the Past are by far the best and most consistent solo efforts. Grant's others are all patchy although I think both Fireboy and Watershed have some great songs - I even like the tractor/actor rhyme on Watershed! I think Robert's efforts after the first have always been odd (what is his second great album Gareth?) and I rarely listen to them. The Warm Nights version of Rock and Roll Friend is dreadful. Can't help with the release date for Fireboy but I definitely didn't get it in England until 93. | ||
| Gareth |
'Calling From a Country Phone' is Robert's best I reckon with 'Danger...' a close second. This record has just grown and grown on me over the years. So many great songs to choose from. I agree with you, Hamish on 'In Your Bright Ray'. Easily his best I think and the less said about the 'Warm Nights' version of 'Rock and Roll Friend' the better. Jeff, what is the 'Fireboy' title track? Don't remember that at all. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Sorry Gareth, I was writing that post during a pre-lunch break haze of starvation. I meant Lighting Fires, but with my brain not firing on all cylinders it kind of melded Fireboy and Lighting Fires into one thing. Insert blushing, embarrassed emoticon here. At any rate, I agree that In Your Bright Ray is definitely Grant's most consistent solo album (though it still contains its share of duds). I also know what you mean when you say Country Phone is a grower. Upon first hearing it, it didn't do much for me, except for 121 and the Circle. But over the years it's really grown on me to where I rate it almost as high as Danger in the Past. | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
Nobody on this chat room seems to like "Horsebreaker Star". I think why I like that album of Grant's solo stuff the most is that double albums are always forgiving of weaker tracks. It's a great driving album, I'll say that from experience. Definetly, Robert's solo albums are stronger. I really dig "Warm Nights" (despite the horrible re-recording of 'Rock 'n' Roll Friend') and "I had a New York Girlfriend". The latter album introduced me to some good songwriters: Guy Clark and Bill Anderson to name two. I love that some of Melbourne's finest musicians play on it, stiring a kind of parochial pride in me. *Trivia note= the Triffids also cover a Bill Anderson song on the "In the Pines" album - 'Once a Day' as sung by Graham Lee who plays on several of the "Newyork Girlfriend" tracks. Can't help you with the Fireboy release date, Padraig. | ||
| Paul B |
"Horsebreaker Star" was the last of solo albums that I brought. Being a Big Syd Straw and REM fan I was floored by Grants choice of backing vocalist and recording venue, the famous ‘Drive in studio’ run by Mitch Easter, producer of their first 2 albums. For a while I thought that the boys where both heading towards a full blown country album each, the alt.country without the .alt. Having seen Robert perform with members of COW (Country or Western) the above mentioned album and ‘Calling from a Country Phone’ seemed to confirm this. Also I believe the video clip for ‘Drop’ (I think) was produced for an Australian Broadcasting Corp show called ‘Landline’, a current affairs show aimed at the man (or woman) on the land, full of 3rd quarter wheat prices and the like. And Yes I agree with Pete, it’s a good driving album. | ||
| Alfred |
I'm sorry, but I can't accept thte consensus of "In Your Bright Ray" as Grant's best solo album. I vastly prefer "Horsebreaker Star" and even, God forbid, "Watershed." Despite the charm of "Comet Scar," the lovely title song, and "Lamp By Lamp," the album is hampered by its studio-rock sound. There's a distance between Grant's voice and the band. It sounds like Grant entered the studio, strummed a guitar, and went back to his room to read Keats while the band overdubbed instruments. It's all very stiff and rote. "Horsebreaker Star" on the other hand is some kind of minor masterpiece. The consistency gets a little wearying, and I wish Grant would project more (the anger of "Someone Else's Wife," the urgency of "In the Core of a Flame" seems beyond him now) instead of cooing meekly, but song for song the album is a perfect blend of melodies and laidback faux-country arrangements. "Put You Down," "Lovers Living on What Went Wrong," "Open Invitation" are among his best songs ever. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Profuse apologies if I offend anyone here, but I think Horsebreaker Star is absolutely heinous. A disturbingly unoriginal album, completely bereft of hooks, inventive melodies, and songs that are in any way memorable. Keep in mind, it's all subjective, this only what *I* think of the record. But wow, what a horrible record. It contains *nothing* to even remotely suggest or hint at the brilliance of Grant's work as a Go-Between. The first time I heard it, I didn't know whether to laugh or cry. But that's just me. As for In Your Bright Ray, I'm not too partial to the trendy "alterna-rock" production and sound, but in terms of songwriting, I think the record finds Grant getting back into form, composing some damn find melodies and hooks, the likes of which had been largely absent in his solo work for sometime up to that point. For the record, my favorite Grant solo stuff is the handfull of b-sides and outtakes he did at the start of his solo career - like Stones for You (original version), Just Get That Straight, Making it Right for Her, She's So Strange, etc... And the first album's Haunted House continues to make me go weak in the knees. Gorgeous song. I just love how we each get something wildly different out of the these records. So often it seems there's some group concensus, but with the Go-Betweens that just goes out the window. | ||
| Alfred |
Jeff: I love our differences, and it's these differences which keep this blog the most interesting on the net. I've always thought Go-Betweens fans are more educated than the average, to which I adduce the consistent intelligence of most of the responses here. And, yes, I've heard the outtakes and demos he cut at the onset of his solo career. I agree that they're melodic and thoughtful, like his best Go-Be's tracks. I've always had a weakness for Stones For You, Just Get That Straight, and even Haven't I Been A Fool. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Alfred, I totally agree. It forces one to look at the music from different perspectives. I find myself constantly re-examining songs or records (which I may not have been into) after reading posts on this board. And even if the appeal others find in certain songs continues to elude me, I still find it fascinating to see where others are coming from. | ||
| Hamish |
Yes this site make me listen again too and I'll no doubt be playing Country Phone again tomorrow! Also agree about the production on Bright Ray, but I do think its the closest either of them have got to the lighter summery feel of 16LL. does anyone know what 'The Magic Club' on the reverse side of the cd booklet refers to - Is it an alternative album title, band name or what? | ||
| Cassiel |
I love all of Grant's solo albums, their many flaws and all. Fireboy is the weakest, let down by some truly awful songs. Horsebreaker Star, on the other hand, is the album that in 20 years time some young schmucks with floppy hair will be touting as a lost classic. Danger in the Past was a work of beauty but the rest, well, let's just say being in the Go-Betweens bring out the best in Robert eh? And Hamish, I don't understand your 'I even like the tractor/actor' line in Watershed; that's f***ing genius. Grant is a bloody poet; give me an example of one rhyme that doesn't work? (Apart from the ones that don't? Yes, occasionally he aims for the stars and only hits the top of the crossbar, but rarely.) | ||
| John |
I listened to Fireboy last night, so I can give an example of a rhyme that doesn't work and which always make me cringe: the opening lines of "The Day My Eyes Came Back", which go something like "Got to get off this rollercoaster/Find myself a brand new toaster". | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
You know, a part of me really wished Grant would have continued with the FOC. I remember reading an article with Grant when they did a small tour supporting the album saying they had already written two-thirds of the next one. The show I saw them do at the Continental Cafe in Prahan Melbourne (only their third show ever) featured several new compositions not on the album and I think it was an interesting experiment. Very contemporary sounding and a fairly strong collection of songs that I guess had something to do with the collaborative effort of the writing process. I play it quite often, actually - well, more regularly than any of his solo albums or Jack Frost material. I know that Ian Haug's commitment to the 'Finger would have made continueing the project near impossible but it's just a damn shame. Not that I don't love the new Go-Bs. | ||
| Randy Adams |
Maybe it's because of my central California background and formative years listening to the likes of Gene Clark, Ian Tyson and Gram Parsons, but when I first heard the U.S. (pruned) version of "Horsebreaker Star" I was satisfied that I had encountered Grant's career masterwork. The production and arrangements are as close to perfect as things get. I concur about the delight at finding Syd Straw on there--that was really unexpected. I admit it was a bit disappointing when I later got the original double CD and nothing among the additional songs was worth having. For the same reason I loved "Calling from a Country Phone" on first listen. The only thing that falls down for me on that one are the lyrics on some of the songs such as "Beyond Their Law" which I absolutely love musically. Sometimes Robert could write such amazingly inconsequential lyrics. I still love "Country Phone" including the simpler songs such as "Atlanta Lie Low." Concerning Grant's lyrics on some of the solo records, hey, rubbing shoulders with Steve Kilbey had to rub off somehow, don't you think? I agree "Fireboy" does not quite hit the level of Grant's other albums, though "The Dark Side of Town" is very poignant. "In Your Dark Ray" offers a great string of songs. The recording is a bit needlessly harsh. I like "New York Girlfriend." It introduced me to Grant Hart. I have to wonder, though, whether Robert really does like the sappy "Frisco Depot" or if it was a bit of a joke. I shall have to listen to FOC again. I listened about twice and shelved it, thinking it very weak. I'll pull it out and try again. And, off the subject, many thanks to whoever it was on this bulletin board who pitched Cathal Coughlan. I'm listening to his "The Sky's Awful Blue" right now. It's a terrific record. I'm so glad that the decentralized mess that the music scene has become makes records like this possible. | ||
| Paul B |
I love the fact that this message boards discussion threads usually end up bearing no relation to the original discussion header. Makes me read everything, which is quite unusual. | ||
| Babs Keatings neighbour |
I must say that I'm amazed that anyone could find 'Frisco Depot' sappy. Fair enough, it paints a pretty bleak picture but there is a certain humour to the language that Mickey Newbury used. That said, if you find Robert's version depressing the original version (which can be found on Newbury's 'Frisco Mabel Joy' album which, by the way, also includes the original version of 'An American Trilogy') might just push you over the edge. As one reviewer put it Newbury's voice was so mournful that it made even his most upbeat numbers ('Just dropped in' anyone?) sound suicidal. As Robert himself put it, the negativity in Newbury's (who passed away just over a year ago) songwriting was relentless. | ||
| andrew stafford |
Just to return to the thread... I may have missed it, but I don't think anyone's answered the question. My Who's Who of Australian Rock lists Fireboy's release date as November 1992. That's supported by a review of the magazine in the December 92 issue of (Australian) Rolling Stone. So there you go. | ||
| Randy Adams |
I love the way the folks on here have such different opinions. The last thing I expected was a defense of "Frisco Depot." I've never heard Mickey Newbury's version. The only versions I've heard are Robert's and Scott Walker's which is accompanied by another forgettable Newbury song ("Sunshine") on what is probably Walker's absolute worst album. Suffice it to say that I never felt inspired to explore Newbury further. It's interesting to know that Robert likes his work. If all of us on here put our music collections together, I wonder how much they'd overlap and what would be included? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
Randy Adam's said, "And, off the subject, many thanks to whoever it was on this bulletin board who pitched Cathal Coughlan. I'm listening to his "The Sky's Awful Blue" right now. It's a terrific record. I'm so glad that the decentralized mess that the music scene has become makes records like this possible." Yeah, that was me and one or two others. I'm really glad you like that album, especially since I don't think it'd be an easy one for a lot of people to digest. It's a beautiful album, and Cathal's lyrics prove he's one of the most intelligent and insightful writers in pop. Apparently Cathal has been struggling to make ends meet with his art (he's never really managed to achieve the even limited success of the Go-Betweens), so at the very least you're supporting a good cause! You might want to search out Black River Falls, the one before Sky's Awful Blue. It's not as consistent, but still quite good. You also might wanna pick up a Microdisney (Cathal's 80s pop band w/ Sean O'Hagan) album if you ever happen to come across one in a record shop. I think we talked about them quite a bit in another thread. Brilliant stuff. | ||
| Gareth |
I almost felt betrayed by 'Horsebreaker Star' when i first heard it. The second disk was so poor i really hated it. I went back to it a few weeks ago and still feel the same. Put me off to such a degree i didn't bother with 'IYBR' until about 3 years ago. It's great that some people can hear some brilliance in this record but to me it's a load of pub-rock and borrowed riffs (doesn't one track start off like 'Its Only Love' by Bryan Adams???). Not sure which thread this was in but i was at the 'BYBO' pre-launch gig too and I remember seeing Robert before and after the show being very much the ideal host (in the flesh he reminds me of a cross between Tommy Cooper and late 70's David Bowie...) whereas Grant was nowhere. Thought it was odd at the time and still do! | ||
| Padraig Collins |
Randy, I was also one of the ones who pitched Cathal Coughlan. You're welcome! Go to his website, www.cathalcoughlan.com and you can download his first solo album free. His name, by the way, is pronounced Caw-hal Cock-lan. (Mine is pronounced Paw-drig!) Andrew, thanks for answering the question I posed about Fireboy's release date. Guess it just got released in Australia three months or so before anywhere else. I'm glad my geeky release date question led to such an impassioned discussion on the album. Just for the record, I like it a lot, particularly Surround Me, which is a great pure pop song. I also like the Australian version of that single which had five extra tracks (one uncredited). | ||
| Paul B |
'Surround Me' single has a great cover photo by one of Australia premier photographers, Bill Henson. Must have cost a pretty penny for him to do the gig. Just shows you how much faith Grants label had in him at the time.. | ||
| Duncan H |
Horsebreaker Star is my favourite of Grants albums (though I always miss out the awful 4 country songs on disc two - if I had to listen to them each time I too would not like it). I could go on about many of the songs, but I'll just say I like them very much. I don't like Watershed, except for "Easy Come, easy go" and "Haven't I been a fool". The other two are ok, with a mix of good and bad/indifferent songs IMO. But Horsebreaker is certainly no.1 for me. As for Robert's solo stuff.... I'm not a fan of "Danger...", and to be honest I don't understand why others like it. There's a few interesting songs on there (I like "Looking for somebody" best) but it tends to leave me cold. "Country Phone" is much more my kind of thing, as is the first half of "New York Girlfriend". I can see the problem some people have with "Warm Nights" (i.e. "RnR Friend ver 2" and the awful "Jug of wine" and "Fortress") but the other songs are wonderful. "Snake skin lady", "Lonliness" and the title track are some of Roberts best songs. Oh, and does anyone else like the b side called "Brookfield 1975" (or something similar)? A great b-side. | ||
| gareth |
For me, the appeal of 'Danger...' is the simplicity of a bunch of great songs played by a great band and sung by a great vocalist. I think his singing on this record (and the next 2) is just perfect. It's like he doesn't have to worry about trying to write a hit or compete with Grant and he could just relax and sing the songs the way he wants. 'Baby Stones' still knocks me dead, as does 'Is This What You Call Change'. For what it's worth, I find I rarely listen to the go-betweens records these days, I much prefer the solo stuff (esp Robert). My theory on this is that the solo records stand up on their own as individual albums whereas the go-betweens stuff is part of a body of work and as soon as i get a favourite (currently 'Before Hollywood') i want to play the next one (or the one before) to see the record in greater context. Maybe i'm being too psuedo or up my own arse here but the only one I really play over and over right now is 'BYBO'. I almost have to play the others all at once. Anyone else like this? I could play '...Country Phone' and '...Bright Ray' all day without wanting to hear anything else by either of them. Maybe they've yet to make their masterpiece or perhaps they've made too many? | ||
| Pete Azzopardi |
I have the same problem with contextualising the Go-Bs albums, being a relatively new fan. I find it hard to not think of how "Tallulah" fits in stylistically with SMAL. But is this really a problem? I think it's a virtue of the band. I visit the solo albums as a vacation from the band: all great and singular but not as rewarding. Tellingly, I don't have this problem with the two new albums. Perhaps it is because they are of my time and don't vary too greatly. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
For me, the solo records all took several listens before they "clicked." And a few, especially Horsebreaker Star, still leave me feeling alienated. The solo records have been a good outlet for when I'm feeling burned out on the Go-Betweens records. You know, sometimes you oversaturate and need some time off from a band. I always know I've reached that point when I'm playing a record and suddenly realize I haven't been paying attention. So, if that happens w/ the Go-Betweens, I turn to the solo records to get my dose of Forster/McLennan. I've made it clear in many posts that I don't think any of their solo records equal the brilliance of the Go-Betweens. But I do think most of them have their moments. I agree that Danger is definitely one of the best, and a lot of that has to do with the band. There's an incredible energy and focus on that record which makes up for any weaknesses in the actual songwriting. That said, I think at least 2/3s of the songs are quite good; especially the jazzy I've Been Looking for Someone, the pummeling Dear Black Dream, or the simple yet pretty "Baby Stones" not to mention several others. Part of what took me a while to really get into this album was the glaring lack of melody, or rather, the absense of Grant's lilting melodies that I had been accustomed to hearing along with Robert's voice. This was an altogether new sound and style for Robert. Also, there's the fact that it kinda sounds like a Nick Cave record that wasn't. Obviously that was unavoidable given that the backing band here was basically the Bad Seeds, but upon initial listens, I couldn't help but think that to some extent Robert's personality and style had been greatly overshadowed by Mick Harvey's stylistic tendencies. Certainly one can easily imagine Nick singing over the title track and Dear Black Dream. Sure, they came up with a great, powerful album, but I mean, Danger is quite a departure from Forster's work as a Go-Between. It also lends more fuel to my argument that both Robert and Grant are HEAVILY influenced by and reliant upon outside input. | ||
| Randy Adams |
I agree that there is too much Mick Harvey on "Danger." I like most of the songs though. I cannot imagine what an actual GoB album would have been like if Harvey had produced it (as Robert wanted). I like the solo albums quite a lot because they simply allow me a lot more Forster/McLennan than would be the case otherwise. I admit that "Warm Nights" can be a bit trying in places such as on "I Can Do" which may be a great number on stage but sure as hell isn't much to listen to at home. | ||
| david nichols |
Mick Harvey and Rowland Howard were early contenders for producer role on Send me a Lullabye. | ||
| Cassiel |
Rowland Howard would've been bloody great. Where is he these days? Any one else share my view that Shivers is the best song of all time? Must be due a cover by someone. All together now: 'I've been contemplating suicide...' | ||
| david nichols |
How weird, I was just at an art exhibition where the words to 'Shivers' had been put on placards - I was talking to the person that did it - who feels Shivers is a bona fide Australian classic - There have already been a few covers. Marie Hoy does it in Dogs in Space, not a bad version in a Shane McGowan kind of way. All (?) Australians will remember the Screaming Jets' hit version of about ten years ago. I am sure there have been heaps of others. As for where RH is these days, I was on the same tram as him only a couple of months ago, so THEN he was in Elizabeth st Melbourne... I think he lives in St Kilda, sometimes plays shows, his shows are pretty good. | ||
| Hamish |
I am intrigued by Jeff's comments about influences on DangerITP. I think one of the reasons that I like it so much is precisely that Robert left the GBs and tried something with a very different feel/sound. I am not sure it is important whether this was under the influence of a producer or not. I love its darkness, particularly when you compare it to the last GBs album 16LL. Although I agree it sounds a bit Nick Cave ish, I think it sounds like the Nick Cave albums released after Danger rather than before - So perhaps Robert has actually influenced Nick!! What I think it achieves is the evocative feel of the GBs and that I think is perhaps what is lacking on other solo efforts. Lyrically a lot of searching and uncertainty is going on and it seems to sum up how I would expect someone to feel at the conclusion of a band they had been a part of for so long. | ||
| Duncan H |
Lots of interesting comments on Danger in the Past. I can see why many other people like it much more than I do. I tend to come at records from the lyrics rather than the music, and DitP is full of "searching and uncertainty" (as stated above), and I found that quite off-putting. Obviously the Gobs were (and are) full of "searching" but there tends to be a underlying calm or beauty in there too. I find this missing in most of DitP, and to me it is a very cold album - not one I would listen to for enjoyment. In atmosphere it's miles from the strength of "16 Lovers Lane" or "Calling from a Country Phone". I'm glad I understand why people like it a bit more, because I always wondered if there was something fundamental I was missing about it. |