| Author | Message | ||
     Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 54 Registered: 05-2005 |
HI I got my copy of the new DVD last night in the mail. I was wondering what others thought of it. Here are my first thoughts below: The first thing I did was play the acoustic sessions: The storytellers section. It's what I wanted to see the most. It was great to watch Robert and Grant discuss and play some of the defining songs in their career. And having it all done on acoustic guitars. It was fabulous! They camera work is nice and for guitarists out there, it shows their handiwork quite clearly. They play very tightly together each with different pieces and melodies. I couldn't stop grinning very ear-to-ear watching it. And it reminded me of the acoustic concert they played back in 1999 in support of "the very best of" record. Same elation. The stories are great too. Hearing how proud they are of their work and particular moments or songs where they felt they had made a leap. Very insightful. I flipped quickly through the main concert DVD as I didn't have much more time. I'll have to watch it this weekend. However, I listened to the concert CD on the way to work today. It is very good also. My 4 year daughter said she liked Black Mule which starts the concert out with Grant solo. His guitar sounds bright and lush. They add a verse into Clouds, their 2nd song, which is a nice twist. I like how they've changed some timings and lyrics of some of the old songs with the new band. Keeping it fresh. A song I've never cared for is Draining the Pool but I really enjoy the version here. It's a lengthy one too (over 6 minutes) but they do such a great job and Robert sings with a lot of spirit and gusto. I'll have to re-visit this song. Anyway, what have others picked up on and enjoyed? If you haven't purchased the DVD yet, do so. You'll love it. I bought mine on-line directly from Yep-Roc. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2005 |
Matthias, are you in the U.S.? I didn't know that. The Yep-Roc sourced DVD is playable on U.S. DVD players? That's the only thing that's held me up on this. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 123 Registered: 04-2005 |
No question that the acoustic storytelling session is the real treasure of the DVD. For some reason, I was mildly disappointed by the Tivoli show as the band sounds less strong than I remember them at their show here last year, but it may just be the poor sound on my TV. I found myself saying out loud "Robert, turn your guitar up a bit." Randy, maybe I'm misunderstanding your question about the DVD, but since Yep Roc is the U.S. record company for the GoBs, the DVD they're selling should be playable on U.S. players. I impatiently (and foolishly) bought the more expensive Australian release late last year and it plays fine on my U.S. DVD player. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 55 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy, tis true. I am in the U.S. It should play nicely on your DVD player. Order it up! It took about a week to get it. It didn't noticed any sound issue of the show on the few songs I listened to (I have yet to watch the whole concert) but I've listened to it in my car from the CD part and think it's a good quality. I also have gotten to hear the Ocean's Apart album finally. And I really like the lush production on the tracks. It really broadens Grant and Robert's songs quite a bit for me and raises them up quite a bit over some of the more miminalistic GOBs V2 albums. Kudos to Wallis! Compression issues aside. The last two tracks sound very distorted. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 61 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yeah Matthias, the acoustic sessions/interview is a dream isn't it!? Not only do you get the insight we have all dreamt of, but yes, you indeed see the chords / fretboard work. I can now play Cattle and Cane! Always wondered how they played that opening riff. What I couldn't help laughing at was Robert describing how they went from playing lead riff based songs to chord based songs that flowed!?, when he goes on about this its hilarious. The bit where he (guitar out of shot at this point) plays a messy little fiddly lead bit and says "you know all this was great" in the old days, but instead chords were now the new way of writing, for those of you who haven't seen this bit, I was laughing me socks off. The guy's a real comic genius. I love it! I can't quite explain it, you'll have to watch it, its one of those where you should've been there. I loved the live part. It is quiet, but they seem to play quiet on stage. A thing I've noticed the very best bands do. The drummer seems naturally restrained, but his style and the rythm section in general is as tight as anything. As are Robert and Grant on the acoustic session especially. I supopose they couldn't have got it any better than this recording. If anything the only let down for me, is the crowd, they seem totally bored, I'd of thought the Oz crowd would have been begging for the songs! (I remember seeing Wilco, Summer '04 in Birmingham's Academy II, there was literally no one there to see this massive American band, I couldn'ty believe it, the crowd were so dull and unresponsive and English!!, if I'd been in Wilco I'd of vowed never to play there again, shame that, as I'll probably never get that close to watching this band ever again.) Mind you, watching a DVD of The Go Bees is not like being there watching them live is it?. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 30 Registered: 04-2005 |
Spence, Re: Your comment about the OZ audience. I happened to be in Melbourne in 1986 (from Edinburgh) and was lucky enough to see them live two nights running. The first night I tried talking to people in the queue and most had no idea who the G-Bs even were, and were there to see one of the other bands on the bill. One of whom was a most awful 10th rate Birthday Party clone band. I wondered if the fact that they had gone off to England/Scotland had alienated their Australian fanbase in some way? Over to you, the Australian fanbase? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 141 Registered: 05-2005 |
When visiting Brisbane in 1999 I was very surprised that no-one seemed to have heard of The Go-Betweens. Here's how I reported it in an interview I did with Robert and Grant in 2002. I tell them that on a trip, or more accurately a pilgrimage, to Brisbane I found that most people had never even heard of them, that the Go-Betweens were unknown prophets in their own town. "There's not much profit to be made from your home town," McLennan laughs. "You are breathing the same air, in the same time zone. I don't know if I want to be a prophet." "We're not a household name here," adds Forster. "There would be a certain group of people who know us and who are passionate about us. We never had a Top 40 hit here. There are advantages to this. It means we can move around fairly anonymously." I reckon though if someone from Brisbane went to Cork asking about Cathal Coughlan they would get the same blank stares I got in Brisbane. | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 36 Registered: 08-2005 |
Back in 1999 RF was living in Germany and the fully blown 'reunion' was still a fair way off yet. At that time, the Go-Betweens were a thing of the past and, for the most part, known only to an earlier generation. I think this may explain to some extent the lack of response to the Go-Betweens you experienced in Brisbane back then. Having said that, I'm not sure the audience for the band here is that much greater today than it was in 1999. The proto-reunion gigs at The Zoo and The Legion Club in 1995–96 were packed out which probably only means about 500 people. At a venue like the Tivoli, which is where they've played the last couple of years, it's only maybe 800 and that's following an unprecedented amount of publicity and not playing Brisbane for a couple of years. I mean Brisbane is still a relatively small city and, despite a lot of public relations spin in recent years, it is still inflicted by a conservatism that impacts adversely in terms of audiences and markets on all areas of cultural production. But as RF and Grant say, there are certain benefits too. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 70 Registered: 05-2005 |
yeah, maybe they like the crowds that way. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 57 Registered: 05-2005 |
OK. We're drifting off topic here... Com'on folks please tell me more than 3-5 people have purchased the DVD. Please submit your reviews here on this thread. If you're a fan of the song Karen, you are in for a real treat, a blistering encore clocking in at 7 minutes. Personally, I've never liked the song. It's just a dirge of a song. I'm much more a People Say / Lee Remick fan. Love the cheap keyboard sound on People Say and am thrilled to have this version along with the gutiar driven version on Live In London. Anyone else think it was kind of odd to start the show with just Grant playing one of his solo songs, Black Mule? Don't get me wrong it's a great version but I thought it funny to play it alone. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 127 Registered: 04-2005 |
The beginning of the Tivoli show reminded me a bit of Talking Heads' "Stop Making Sense" film, when Byrne played the first song solo, then Tina came out for the second song, then Chris for the third, then Jerry for the fourth. I admire the GoBs in that they're not afraid to start their set with a slow, quiet song and build momentum as the concert progresses. Someone posted last year that they thought (or knew?) that Grant opened with "Black Mule" in tribute to the victims of the London bombings, which had recently happened. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 34 Registered: 01-2005 |
I have the Yep Roc version and it plays fine. The performances are spot on. Karen and Here Comes A City really rock out. Well worth the purchase. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 32 Registered: 04-2005 |
Anyone else in Europe try and order it direct from the Tuition site? I tried a few days ago. The transaction seemed to go OK, took my bank card details and then all I got was a blank page. As far as I know nothing has actually come out of my account (yet?!), but the annoying thing is that 2 e-mails to them have met with no response at all. So I am in a kinda limbo state. Good review from the Guardian today... http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/reviews/story/0,,1706228,00.html | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 37 Registered: 08-2005 |
OK, you're quite right to get the conversation back on track. I too was quite surprised at how little response to the DVD there has been. I saw the show at the Tivoli live and I have to say I've seen much better performances from the band in recent years. 'Here Comes A City' is no question the killer track on 'Oceans Apart', and its intensity was only enhanced in the live performance. But RF was clearly very nervous and, I think, his performance generally suffered on account of it. He seemed unusually constrained and the flamboyance and play, which you come to expect from him on stage, barely emerged on the night. There were, after all, about 8 cameras in his face and even the great actor that RF is evidently found the going difficult. The cameras perhaps also affected the band/audience dynamic too — I certainly found the camera fixed to a dolly-like contraption in the middle of the room to be especially distracting throughout, but I'm a kind of events-manager and so I naturally find myself looking at all sorts of things that others perhaps aren't so much concerned with. I also think that the idiosyncratic nature of RF's guitar playing, which is always something I look for, does not emerge so well on the DVD, whereas in the past on songs like 'Draining the Pool' he would really extend it and rock it out. In the end though, I think they did a pretty good job with the concert component of the DVD, cutting between all the footage they no doubt accumulated by having so many cameras in the room. The monochrome backdrops, I think, come out especially well on the DVD, much stronger actually than in the live situation where I don't think the colour emphasis was quite so present. The acoustic session on the DVD was interesting although I don't think anything especially revealing or new emerges from that. RF and GM are clearly wanting to bed-down the fact that they are and always have been the Go-Betweens, which while no doubt correct, I felt they perhaps could have been a little more generous when it came to acknowledging the various contributions of others, especially Lindy Morrison, who I think gets only a brief passing mention. But it's best not to get caught up in all the politics of this and, in the end, the records speak for themselves. | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 117 Registered: 11-2004 |
I think I may have said this in another thread, but I was a little annoyed that 'Darlinghurst Nights' was omitted from the DVD, yet glad that 'Cattle & Cane' didn't make the final cut. Great song, great arrangement and all that, but that apple! He also held an apple during the performance in Eumundi the night before. They should have filmed that show instead - it was as spontaneous as The Go-Betweens get these days. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 58 Registered: 05-2005 |
Donat, please tell us the story of the apple. Since it was omitted from the DVD and for those of us not present at the show, we haven't got a clue what you're referring to. | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 38 Registered: 08-2005 |
Matthias, not to pre-empt Donat who was right down the front next to the two wildly dancing Japanese girls and no doubt saw it all much better than me, but the apple thing was a very curious moment indeed. I'd almost forgotten about it until Donat mentioned it. So far as I recall, this incident took place towards the end of the show, after the set proper and before the encores. Grant walks out on stage, I think alone, holding an apple in the palm of his hand. At the time, it reminded me of Yoko Ono, like some sort of zen-like or fluxus performance art piece from the '60s. It was all over in a matter of seconds, but as Donat says, it sort of looked like a spontaneous gesture (by the way, I don't recall the apple coming out at the show at Eumundi, which would not exactly sit well with the assessment that it was a spontaneous act ...). I assumed there was a fruit platter backstage at the Tivoli and Grant spontaneously decided to walk out with this apple in his palm in this self-conscious performative way. I don't recall him eating it. Perhaps he threw it into the audience. My memory is now getting hazy so over to you Donat ... incidentally, I heard that the show the night before the Tivoli gig, which was held in an old theatre in Lismore to quite a small audience, was the best performance of the three shows held in and around Brisbane. | ||
| cosmo vitelli Member Username: Cosmo Post Number: 19 Registered: 05-2005 |
the acoustic section/set is very very wonderful indeed...i listened to the dvd through headphones and was struck by the warmth of the guitar sounds which blend wonderfully..the vocals are obviously dry but i was moved to tears during part company and lost it several times thereafter | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 74 Registered: 02-2005 |
I also noticed the Stop Making Sense connection, building the band from Grant’s solo acoustic beginning. During the acoustic living room interview Robert also openly alludes to the fact that people think Here Comes A City is reminiscent of Life During Wartime. I understand why they did a varied set for posterity, but the (edited) DVD performance is not as powerful as the band was last summer in NYC at the Mercury Lounge or Southpaw – they really rocked (and I don’t expect that from the Go-Betweens). I’ve never seen them better and a good deal of the credit goes to the rhythm section and the freedom that gives to Robert and Grant. Glenn Thompson is such a relaxed in-the-pocket drummer. The acoustic interview segment may not offer revelations per se, but it is very intimate and entertaining. Too bad Grant’s voice was hoarse, but it almost adds to the hominess of it all. The bit where Robert “discovers” chords on Part Company is very funny as is his recalled reaction to Cattle and Cane… “Oh! We can write about the past! Up until then it was all me, now, me, me.” | ||
| paul draper Member Username: Paul_d Post Number: 10 Registered: 05-2005 |
Just got it yesterday. Went straight to the acoustic section. Brilliant. Robert in fine form. Hair was perfect. Liked the jacket and the way his sunglasses were hooked onto his jumper. Looked debonair. This was an important good start for me. Some great yarns from Robert and Grant. Pity about Grants voice at times, if he had a bad throat film it on another day! But thats nitpicking, it was great, I'll watch it again tonight with my guitar and get a guitar lesson as well. You can't lose, buy it now! As for the gig it was ok but its like watching porn, I'd much rather be there doing it than watch someone else having all the fun! Actually I thought the crowd were a bit lacklustre. Which reflects back on the band. In Liverpool last April the band tore the roof off the place, the crowd was singing along, even a couple of fights, top night! thought the OZ crowd would be a bit more passionate to be honest. Its a must have for any Go-Betweens fan, for the acoustic section alone it was worth every penny. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 45 Registered: 07-2005 |
I'm just watching the DVD on the computer and struck by the resemblance of Robert to Ted Hughes ( the later great poet)! I got this delivered form Oz as I couldn't wait any longer for the UK version. It was delivered really quickly and really enjoying it. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 46 Registered: 07-2005 |
P.S I love the insertion of Dylans "love minus zero" in Clouds. I've seen Elvis Costello do this frequently and this seemed to eclipse even him. really sublte. | ||
| David Matheson Member Username: David_matheson Post Number: 43 Registered: 12-2004 |
Thanks Jerry. I was wondering where that extra bit on Clouds came from. | ||
| XY765 Member Username: Judge Post Number: 8 Registered: 01-2006 |
I think the best part is the acoustic storytelling section. Can't believe 'Streets of your town' was included to the exclusion of other and better tracks. I agree that the crowd are very very quiet throughout the gig. Overall worth buying. One highlight for me is the acoustic 'Head full of steam' on the acoustic section... | ||
| Rory Cox Member Username: Rory Post Number: 1 Registered: 02-2006 |
I just bought the Yep-Roc DVD, and overall am enjoying it. However, I had to return the first one I bought as it was defective--the DVD has many hiccups and parts of it just get stuck in my player. Now I have a second, and it has the same defects, in all of the exact same spots. For instance, the concert version of "Too Much of One Thing" just stops halfway through the song. I've never had any problem with any other DVD. Did my local record shop (Amoeba in Berkeley, California) happen to just get a few bad apples? Or is this a wider problem that others are experiencing? | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 143 Registered: 09-2004 |
Rory, do you know my favourite writer, fellow Berkeley resident Barry Gifford? BTW, somebody - I can't remember who - posted a message mentioning hiccups with his American copy of the DVD on another thread, so you're not alone. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 143 Registered: 05-2005 |
Striped sound getting great reviews in the music press this week, with Uncut and Mojo UK publications giving it 4 stars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And rightly so, say what you like I'm no more into nitpicking, you bunch of trainspotters! | ||
| Wilson Davey Member Username: Wilson Post Number: 21 Registered: 05-2005 |
The whole G-B's canon is an embarrassment of riches. We look to closely, step back and let the light in ! Enjoy the songs !If FORW had been anyone else's debut we would be drooling. It gets stick on this site and I don't know why. Some weaker moments sure but if it had been a lost 4 track EP that someone had discovered from 1988:- Spirit, The clock, He lives..., Surfing Mags and say they hadn't got back together.It would be revered by all. | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 173 Registered: 08-2004 |
Spence, Uncut give it a good review, yes. But lazy journo's prevail yet again. "Wife beating ode Streets Of Your Town." Piss poor yet again. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 39 Registered: 04-2005 |
Got my copy from Tuition eventually: There had been a problem with their site apparently. Well, watched it twice and sent it on to a friend. Is it just me or is watching a concert on DVD an extremely boring experience (notable exception being footage of Dylan live in '66)? OK, so maybe the acoustic section is interesting/enjoyable but the concert comes across as pretty 'sterile'. I read somewhere that RF was very nervous. It shows. But as with music videos before, I ended up wandering around the room doing something else while only listening to the sound. And hey there's even a CD in the package for doing just that... | ||
| Wilson Davey Member Username: Wilson Post Number: 28 Registered: 05-2005 |
I think it's the audience at that show. Hardly animated at all. Did you hear the muted reaction to the announcement of the DVD being made ? They should have raised the roof on hearing that! Was anyone who posts on here in the crowd that night ? | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 155 Registered: 05-2005 |
Its funny, but the dvd works on 2 levels for me. Firstly, thank fu*ck for it, its great to have them on a DVD, and with a worthy musical line up, (shame there hadn't been a dvd around '87 when I think other than now the GB's were at their live best) if nothing more than to show my daughters it in a couple of years time, and the acoustic interview is great. That's one level, the other level is that for me, the quality af later GB's music stands up so well against their wonderful back catalogue. And these shows over the past few years highlight this fact. The set list is great, could have been better, venue etc all could have been beter, but you can't always make magic happen, it usually just happens. The new songs come over great, and you can tell they like playing them too. The songs have earnt their stripes pretty quickly within the GB's setlist I think, where as years ago it took years!? The setlist for this DVD will always be subjective but overall better to have than to have not. PS the muted audience thing was cleared up in an earlier thread, and whoever siad that hometown gigs were muted I think is right. big difference in crowd reaction from Barbican to Tivoli, but heck this could be down to a lack of mikes aimed at the audince maybe?? | ||
| Mark Tuffield Member Username: Mark_t Post Number: 22 Registered: 05-2005 |
OK Sad Plane Spotters Corner here – has anyone else noticed that the aircraft that goes from right to left over the graphic of the Brisbane skyline is an Antonov An-12 “Cub”? Any suggestions as to the breed of duck… | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 237 Registered: 10-2004 |
I finally just got a copy of this (birthday present from my girlfriend!), and wathced it last night. Overall it's nice to have, though I certainly have some issues with the song selection in the live set. It would've been nice had Darlinghurst Nights, Head Full of Steam, and Part Company made it onto that particular set. And I already expressed in another thread my strong lack of enthusiasm for the inclusion of songs like The Clock and Surfing Magazines in their set. And I think Grant needs to play the electric guitar (as opposed to the acoustic) a little bit more (nothing against acoustic guitar at all, I just feel like certain songs, Spring Rain in particular, would've benefitted from Grant using electric). But, overall I really enjoyed it, and I'm really glad they decided to do this in the first place. It would be fun to watch it back to back with the live video from '83 (you know, that washed-out, low-budget, single camera one). I really enjoyed the acoustic, livingroom set too. Seeing them run through Bachelor Kisses and Part Company was particularly nice. I was sad to see how Grant seemed to be losing his voice and couldn't hit the high notes. (Typical Go-Betweens luck to have Grant losing on his voice on the very day they film it). But, I was really happy they included that with the DVD. Darlinhurst Nights was, again, conspicuously absent from this section. Would've been nice to have worked such a classic tune somewhere into the DVD! | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 175 Registered: 03-2006 |
Such is my affection for the GBs, it's tough to be objective at all - I just love seeing them do their thing...I've only been privileged to see them in person once, at the tail end of their first iteration... They may not be all technically perfect performances, but they sure seem wonderful to me... I wondered if Grant had had a few too many of those Gitanes he talked about before the acoustic set...still really love it, though...a lot of their friendship, partnership, etc. really shines through... About Spring Rain, I love it, one of RF's best I think, but something seems slightly off about their performance of it on the DVD...you seem to be knowledgeable about drumming, Jeff - is it that the tempo drags a bit? It doesn't seem to have that sprightly Creedence-y swing the original does...still like it, though. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 238 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hardin, as for Spring Rain, I'll have to watch it againg. What bothered me about it was that Grant was doing the lead on acoustic, while Robert was doing the rhythm part on electric, which didn't sound right to me. Usually, having it the other way around (the electric doing the lead melodies) works better. But I'll have to watch it again and see if I notice anything else. And yeah, I wondered the same thing about Grant and the Gitanes too! But, overall it's a fun DVD, especially for obsessives like us. Oh, and I really liked that version of Karen too. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 280 Registered: 05-2005 |
I agree re Grant digging out the electric guitar, it sometimes helps to boost everything. Agree too, it is a fun DVD, nothing serious about it, even the acoustic sesh is lighthearted, and Roberts explaining of how they made the transition of writing jittery type songs to songs that flowed with chords is the funniest TV I have seen in ages, that's why I can't fault it, yeah sure, I'd have liked some different songs included, but hey, you can't have your cake and eat it! Actually, grant is looking very healthy now, saw a pic in the book of him standing against a wall, and he was wearing this awful sweater and he looked like Bob Hoskins! Mind you one of my girls looks like Grant Mitchell from Eastenders at the moment!! | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 219 Registered: 04-2005 |
I noticed that on the few songs at the Tivoli show where Grant played electric, it's not amplified any louder than his acoustic, so actually his "Spring Rain" leads might not have been any more effective on electric. Neither of the guys is much of a fan of loud guitars, I guess. I do wish Grant would play more electric, though, as I assume a lot of the interesting lead parts on BH and SHF were by him (this was speculated on ages ago in another thread). Since I never got to see the Vickers-era version of the band live, a question for anyone who did: did they crank their guitars a little more onstage then than they do now? I don't mean to harp on this, but I've heard few other "rock" bands where the guitars were louder on record than live. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 239 Registered: 10-2004 |
Kurt, it's not necessarily the volume level I'm talking about, but more the tonal quality of the guitars. The acoustic just sounds a little limp to me when Grant's playing leads that are just screaming out for some nice, ringing electric. Maybe it's because I'm so accustomed to hearing that lead on Spring Rain played on electric on the record. | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 32 Registered: 05-2005 |
This probably belongs in the people you've met thread but it's also a Gitanes story. A couple of years ago R&G were in town to do press so I went up to the Gramercy Park Hotel to meet Grant for a drink. We were sitting in the hotel bar and Grant breaks out a pack of Gitanes (now you know it was at least a couple of years ago). Well sitting near us was Ethan Hawke and he comes over to Grant and asks him for a cigarette. Grant gives him this long serious look and says 'You know they're very strong'. And Ethan Hawke says 'I know, that's why I want one'. I guess you had to be there. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 283 Registered: 05-2005 |
when I saw GB's last year in Birmingham, they were quite loud. It depends on the venue and the PA on the night. Its impossible to judge the 'real' sound of a gig from a DVD. I saw the Vickers GB's lots of times, and the band sounded just right on most occasions. Fairly loud, there;s noeffects/distortion pedals so the group collectively sounded powerful. Wolverhampton Poly always ahad a great backline. Most bands I saw around the time of '87 there seemed to play quietly on stage and let the PA push it out. I saw The Monochrome Set there, and they were very loud,not quite Metallica, but loud. | ||
| Duncan Hurwood Member Username: Duncan_h Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2005 |
I've just got round to buying this, and I'm very impressed with the music. I was put off getting it after the Live in London CD which is great in parts, but also seems a little souless. Maybe the Barbaican wasn't the best place to have the concert. But the music disc on this is DVD is a far superior Go-Betweens concert album. I much prefer the "Oceans Apart" songs live than on the album. | ||
| Paul Swinford Member Username: Prema Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2005 |
I've watched the DVD a few times now. Obviously, DVDs are for the established fan base. Unlikely they'll draw in a new audience as they don't bring exposure through radio as would a new CD. Kudos for the inclusion of the audio CD. Very useful for fans and smart way to increase the sale price. That's a win-win for fans and band alike. I like the audio CD very much, but I haven't fallen in love with the DVD portion yet. There are the unfortunate disappointments. I don't judge the performance on what songs could have been in it. I'm willing to let the band decide that. My concerns focus more on the performance itself. Have my ears gone daffy or is Robert in the concert singing "Born to a Family" very, very flat? He appears nervous at first and maybe that's how his jitters came out. His rap of "Hired, tired, hired tired, hired tired..." in "Draining the Pool for You" is an arty flourish I could do without. It's so jarring for me because the Go-Betweens impress me as artists in service to their songs. That moment came across as the artist standing in front of the song, making himself the focus of attention. Of course, it's only some seconds long and not a big deal. The acoustic sessions were both a disappointment and a revelation. Poor Grant! With all the touring, his voice was so obviously strained. It would have been nice if they could have afforded to postpone the acoustic session til such time that he was in good voice. The DVD is, after all, a permanent record of your work. It would be nice to give it your best shot. But when you don't have a mega-platinum fan base, you do the best you can under the contraints of schedule and budget. Too bad, because the sparseness of "Botany Sessions" and the "16 Lovers Lane" demo CD really highlight Grant's soothing voice and aching melodicism. The revelation comes in the unfolding delight and realization over all these years as to just how much power the Go-Betweens wring from simplicity. The chord progressions and leads are clean, yet sprinkled with genius, and the melodies they lay over such simple patterns is the cornerstone of their art. The tale of Robert's "swiping" Grant's guitar part to write the lyrics to "Too Much of One Thing" is hilarious. Grant probably thought he'd have plenty of time to finish the song, but Robert, famous for his thoughtful (read "slow") approach to writing most of his songs comes back the next day with everything done, leaving Grant a scrap in the middle! Also nice to know that music writers can be a muse, too, as Robert points out with "German Farmhouse". And so that hypothetical French film soundtrack that Grant did not exclude as a possible future project... Any creative thinkers care to share a story proposal? If you could get the Go-Betweens to compose a soundtrack for your film, what would your film be about? (Sorry, I'm a bit of an odd thinker - who would start writing a movie with the soundtrack first?) Remember, it needs to have a "French Connection"! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 240 Registered: 10-2004 |
Paul - I know what you're talking about with Robert's voice. The thing is, I don't think Robert's strength is singing with perfect pitch. And he's always made up for that with loads of character. In fact, I remember trying to get a few people into the Go-Betweens several years ago, and they immediately noticed that Robert was singing flat, and were rather critical of it. (I think I was playing them Liberty Belle). Of course I hadn't really noticed or cared up to that point, so I was quite surprised that someone else would find it objectionable. But that experience sort of tuned me into how charmingly imperfect Robert's vocals can be. So, it's not really a surprise that his vocals don't always hit the mark in a live setting. But there's also something to your observation about Robert seeming a bit nervous (and maybe stiff) at first and gradually loosening up after a few songs. I noticed this when I was their last show in San Francisco. The whole band really seemed to loosen up after the first 4 or so songs. And I can relate to this because when my band plays live, it sometimes takes a few songs for me to loosen up and feel perfectly comfortable. | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 34 Registered: 05-2005 |
The GBs were always been pretty quiet on stage. Thankfully, as a result, I have no hearing problems. R&G were, and I'm sure still are, very sensible with their stage volumes. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 244 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, the few times I've seen them, they were definitely not the kind of band you'd need to wear ear-plugs for. No ringing in the ears after the show or anything. I think one of the most defeaning shows I've been to was seeing Neil Young with Crazy Horse about 15 years ago. It was so insanely loud, it really started to hurt my brain after a while. | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 47 Registered: 08-2005 |
I attended a show in Berlin towards the end of 2000 and it was really loud and rocky. This was the line up of the band with the German drummer that they had a few problems with, although I don't remember any problems on stage that night. One of the reasons I think the volume and intensity of that show sticks with me is that earlier in the day the band did an acoustic gig in this big shopping mall near the Friederichstrasse S-Bahn, and it was all light and easy. Then, later that night, they opened the set with a blistering version of 'Your Turn, My Turn'. RF and Grant were both playing electric guitars and the call and response guitar parts were incredibly loud and clear through a huge PA system. It might not have been quite Crazy Horse volume, but it was LOUD, unexpected and totally great — really rocky rock 'n' roll. It reminded me of that period just after Robert Vickers joined the band and there was a lot of that call and response guitar interaction between RF and Grant, a bit like, dare I say it, Tom Verlaine and Richard Lloyd with Television. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 287 Registered: 05-2005 |
I once supported a group called The Edsel Auctioneer. They were louder than The Butthole Surfers man! | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 35 Registered: 05-2005 |
I find the loss of that guitar interplay now that Grant plays acoustic so much a bit disappointing. One of the advantages of playing with drummers like Lindy and Glenn is that you can keep your stage volume low. That allows you to hear what everybody else is doing and allows the front of house sound engineer to mix what's coming through the mics and not be held hostage to blaring guitar amps that drown out vocals. How loud it is in the house of course should be up to that engineer. Unfortunately, in small clubs, it usually doesn't work that way. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 231 Registered: 04-2005 |
Robert, I don't have enough experience playing in bands to know exactly what you mean by "drummers like Lindy and Glenn"--is it it just that they play with some finesse and don't pound the hell out of the drums ALL the time (what I think of as the "Dave Grohl style"), like many drummers do on stage? | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 48 Registered: 08-2005 |
Robert, I wonder how much the loss of that guitar interplay is attributable to Grant's seeming preference for the acoustic guitar these days, or whether it is something more connected to the songs being played, or whether perhaps there are other significant factors involved in the equation. I sense it is something that certainly comes and goes, and while currently lost may be refound at some point. I certainly hope so. Grant does seem though to go through these phases where he embraces and then rejects the electric guitar. For instance, in June 1995 I saw him play a solo show in Köln where it was all electric guitars and almost a kind of heavy rock, in a way. It was sort of wierd actually. I also recall RF once saying in an interview that the Creedence guitar groove he got with Warm Nights was not something he could just turn on like a light-switch — however simple it appeared — and that perhaps the same goes for the guitar interplay. Maybe it is just something that is possible at a certain point in time, and not so much dictated per se by the instruments or the songs being played. | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 36 Registered: 05-2005 |
I think Grant, in general, prefers playing acoustic to electric and that is reflected in the direction of the band. He obviously enjoys playing a bit of electric lead but mostly feels comfortable playing acoustic. I think BYBO is indicative of this trend. This is less obvious on OA because of the production and arrangement help from Mark Wallis but I feel like that's the way it's going. Not that this is necessarily a bad thing, just different. It may, in fact, be a good commercial move. Who knows. As long as their keep the level of song writing up to their own high standard they will still make great albums. It does make working with good people important as you have to replace those melodic Grant solos with something equally interesting. I think they managed that on OA but didn't on BYBO. | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 37 Registered: 05-2005 |
ah drummers, my favourite subject. Some drummers play louder than others. That does not mean they play badly it's just their natural inclination to hit the drums harder. Jim Sclavnus from the Bad Seeds is incredibly loud. Playing with Clem Burke is like standing inside an explosion. They are two extremely good and very loud drummers. You just have to adjust to the various volume levels. Playing with loud drummers can be an exciting live experience but requires more effort to make sure the sound on stage is right. I would have to agree though. A bad loud drummer is worse than a bad quiet drummer... | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 293 Registered: 05-2005 |
really well put, I thought that of Jim as opposed to Thomas, they are poles apart but have the same amount of passion, Thomas can get it over with out the relentless pummelling of the snare. My group has John Langley from The Blue Aeroplanes/Strangelove/Witness playing drums on some new recordings starting next month, now, he is probably one of my favourie drummers of all time, he has the subtlety, but plays incredibley loud, every move counts. It'll be interesting to see how it works out as we're pretty quiet as a rule... you're only as good as y'r drummer! | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 49 Registered: 08-2005 |
Sorry to keep straying off the drums and back to the guitars, but I do think the loss in recent times of the twin guitar interplay, especially in the live situation (and as documented on the Striped Sunlight Sound DVD), is worth some further discussion. I also think it's not entirely to do with Grant's preference for the acoustic guitar, and that the usual spontaneity and play in RF's guitar playing — a kind of unexpectedness, of what will he do next — is not as pronounced as it once was. Perhaps this is to do with the new songs and the (lack of) possibilities they offer in this regard. Maybe, as you say Robert, it is a 'commercial move'. Certainly, the set lists for the live shows in recent years is not all that conducive. I keep thinking here, for example, of those extraordinarily beautiful passages in 'Twin Layers of Lightning', with its slow, single-note lead parts. In my opinion, it is that kind of 'minimalism', for want of a better word, that finally brands The Go-Betweens as true 'masters' of the electric guitar. I crave it and I don't hear enough of it. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 235 Registered: 04-2005 |
I agree completely about the disappointment over the lack of guitar interplay these days, David. I'd guess that it's simply because they're not interested in doing it anymore. I would assume that they've decided to settle into their roles as singer-songwriters who play instruments, where perhaps in the earlier days they viewed their instrumental contributions as important as the songs themselves. And the songs they write now are much more conventional in rhythm and structure; those odd constructions and rhythms in the early '80s forced/suggested quirkier guitar parts, I'm sure. Or, while this is a harsh word--they're just "lazier" than they used to be. It's certainly a lot easier to strum along onstage than pick out intricate guitar lines. But I wished they'd pull out their old Television albums before the next record and take a bit of inspiration from them. And yes, Robert and Jeff, let's hope Grant puts down his acoustic more often and picks up a Strat! | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 50 Registered: 08-2005 |
I'm not sure that it's laziness exactly — after all, the best artists know that true creativity is found in a kind of laziness. I also think it's not so self-conscious or structured as to be an absence of interest or the subject of some sort of reasoned decision (although perhaps the commercial imperative may, as Robert Vickers has indicated, be a factor here). You also only need to read RF's regular reviews in The Monthly to know he's still interested in the unconventional, and not so long ago he agreed that 'Caroline and I' involved a certain indebtedness to the Dutch group Bettie Serveert, which means he's still listening closely to electric guitars! My feeling is that it is a rapport thing between RF and Grant, that comes and goes, and the sort of songs they agree to play live reflects the ebb and flow here. | ||
| mingus Member Username: Mingus Post Number: 32 Registered: 06-2005 |
What "kind of laziness" did you have in mind? Curious if you could illustrate with some examples of this true creativity? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 252 Registered: 10-2004 |
I agree with Robert as well about the lack of guitar interplay. That's one of the reasons why TFORW and BYBO don't work as well for me. They still obviously know how to write good songs, but there was something really magical going on with some of their guitar work in the 80s. And that magic wasn't just specific to electric guitars, either. I mean, take "Part Company" for example; Forster's acoustic strumming and Grant's breathtaking electric lead play off each other brilliantly, and the way Vickers weaves his perfect bassline into it works beautifully. I feel like there were similar things going on in other songs, like "Unkind and Unwise," and to a more subtle degree in "Head Full of Steam" and "To Reach Me," just to mention a few. There's this wonderfully interwoven quality the guitars and bass have with those songs, which is something Robert and Grant don't hit upon nearly as often these days. Maybe it's because I'm a guitarist, but that particular aspect of the Go-Betweens work has always been crucial to me. But I also agree that the arrangements and production on Oceans Apart go some way to remedying that issue, which is probably one reason why I like it quite a bit more than the last two. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 184 Registered: 03-2006 |
As much as I enjoy the DVD, there are a couple of bits missing from two of my absolute favorites from OA, Finding You and Boundary Rider (imo, the best song GM's written in probably 10 years)...Finding you, in particular, is missing some of the guitar hooks and the great coda that it seems they could've played as easily as the extended "yeah yeah" section of Born To A Family, or the hired/tired bit from Draining the Pool... | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 296 Registered: 05-2005 |
on a completely personal level, when i was younger, my first few bands, i had fender jags and mustangs (even before mr cobain!) and i used to sway around frantically hammering the guitar in a josef k style way and loved doing it, but, as i got older, i ended up mellowing, last few years i have really taken to using acoustics for practically everything. is it an age thing? it must be i reckon. i agree with some of the threads miss the electric interplay a lot. we all just get the mellow yellow! talking of the k, look at malcolm ross' 2 albums, the first low shot, was excellent by the way, all elcectric and raw, then the follow up happy boy, not a lead in sight, and now Malcolm hardly touches the electric, its acoustics all the way... having said that i am close to buying another jag off ebay, oops here comes the wife... | ||
| Robert Vickers Member Username: Robert_vickers Post Number: 38 Registered: 05-2005 |
Slight clarification. I did not mean to suggest that Grant's preference for the acoustic lately was a delliberate commercial move only that it might end up being more commercial by accident. I really think he just likes playing acoustic guitar more than electric. | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 51 Registered: 08-2005 |
Sorry to have interpreted your comment that way Robert. I think you're absolutely right to make that distinction and to reiterate the point about Grant's preference for the acoustic guitar. The new songs and the role of the acoustic guitar there certainly seem to be an entirely natural thing. However, it's more the construction of the live shows that, I think, is the real issue here. Of course, live shows tend to be dominated by new material and perhaps a few old 'must play' songs, but it's in the selection of other songs around these that I guess I'm wanting to investigate here. While Grant may currently prefer playing the acoustic guitar, I also agree with Jeff where he makes the point about the interplay not necessarily being specific to the use of electric guitars (although, I must say, it's more the twin electric thing that I miss). It just does not seem to be there in the live show right now. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 240 Registered: 04-2005 |
To follow up (sort of) on what you're wondering about, David: when I saw them last June in Seattle, they played just four songs off of OA, but did five each off of TFORW and 16LL. Maybe that was an attempt to cater to an American crowd, as those were probably the two best-known albums in America. But covering so much of them at the expense of featuring the brand-new album was odd. Their insistence at pushing the TFORW and BYBO songs seems almost perverse. I get the feeling they like to play around with guitar configurations just for the heck of it. "German Farmhouse" is electric-guitar heavy on the album, but was two acoustics live at the Barbican show. "Cattle and Cane" features an electric and an acoustic at Barbican but Grant didn't even play guitar on it when I saw them live. And I remember some posts from last year saying Grant played acoustic on "Darlinghurst Nights" at some shows, even though his electric riffs are an important part of the recorded version and at the Seattle show. | ||
| david pestorius Member Username: David_pestorius Post Number: 52 Registered: 08-2005 |
Thanks Kurt. I have to say it's really pleasing to hear all of that. I like the perversity that you allude to; that they aren't always 'following the script' or doing it the 'right' way. I was occasionally looking at the set-lists that were being posted during last years tour of Europe and had a sense of the shows being very scripted, with only the encores, if you can call them that, permitting a bit of variation. So, for me, that perversity is a welcome and encouraging thing, even if the playing around with the songs did not always seem to work. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 272 Registered: 03-2005 |
On the electric vs. acoustic thing, the acoustic is a more dynamic and expressive instrument. The electric pickup and amp apparatus tends to homogenize so much of the playing on an electric. Your creativity has to depend a good deal more on choice of equipment and settings and (if you use them) effects. It won't translate out on stage worth a damn but when you are playing on the couch, the acoustic leaves the electric FAR behind in terms of potential creative expression. And electrics seem to bust strings a lot more easily. |