| Author | Message | ||
     kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 175 Registered: 05-2005 |
Back when the V1 of the GO-Bs were going I used to (just) like Grants songs better than Roberts. Now, with hindsight I much prefer Roberts songs. The V2 GO-Bs are now three studio albums old and I think Robert has continued this superiority into these albums. Songs like Here Comes A City,Born To A Family,Darlinghurst Nights,Mountains Near Delray,Caroline and I,German Farmhouse,He Lives My Life, Surfing Magazines, When She Sang About Angels - these are among his finest songs. So in 2006 Robert is my main main, that might change in another 20 years of course. Anyone agree? | ||
| David Matheson Member Username: David_matheson Post Number: 62 Registered: 12-2004 |
Probably many of us have pondered this issue over the years. Like Kevin, initially I preferred Grant's songs then later preferred Robert's. Changed back and forth a few times before eventually deciding I like both for different reasons. With the last three albums I definitely think Robert is more consistent. Grant has some great moments but also more low spots, whereas Robert has won me over with virtually every song. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 240 Registered: 05-2005 |
To me, one is no good without the other... | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 78 Registered: 07-2005 |
Yeah! they are synergisitc. I did use to prefer Grants songs but may be its an age thing, but some of Roberts I was less keen on years ago I find more meaning relevance and generally more enjoyable now. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 210 Registered: 10-2004 |
generally, i'm in the camp that loves both pretty equally. and yes, i do think they work much better together. but there have been albums where maybe forster's songs seemed to me on the whole a bit stronger than grant's, and vice versa. for example, i think grant really nailed it with his set of tunes on BYBO, yet i think robert really came out ahead on OA. for me, robert also had the edge on tallulah. but i think with the rest of their albums, it's pretty even. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 250 Registered: 05-2005 |
ahem, lest we forget, that Danger in the past is a classic, so one was great withouotthe other for that session anyway! | ||
| Paul Wright Member Username: Wallaby Post Number: 27 Registered: 05-2005 |
Is this where the Flame wars start again? I always thought that one of the interesting things about GBs fandom is that there is no Grant/Robert split. Everyone seems to like both of them. Of course there is the "best rhythym section" debate | ||
| Matt Ellis Member Username: Matt_ellis Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 |
I'm suprised their seems to be a consensus on this. I also agree that Grant initially won me over much more than Robert. I much prefer Grant's solo work. I've always got the impression from this board that their are more Robert fans than Grant fans. I also got that impression from the vox pops section at the end of the new DVD. But since reformation it's now vice versa: Roberts songs are generally the stronger. I read somewhere that the 'other one' gives around 20% input into a song he doesn't sing/write the lyrics to. I'd love to know what kind of input Grant and Robert provide each other. I'm sure this has been said before but I imagine Robert to almost act as an editor (i.e. he cherry picks Grants best songs)as Grant seems a prolific songwriter, especially compared to Robert whom it is widely thought has a '5 song a year work ethic' (I'm not sure if he has ever been quoted on this?) | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 232 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ok, this will get people going, but it's honestly how I see it: I can't help thinking that Robert really profits from working with Grant whereas it's the opposite for Grant. While he cranked out a gigantic amount of often very good songs during the solo years, he seems to struggle to come up with good ones now. Perhaps it's a coincidence. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 191 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy I agree with you and I would even draw comparisons with your namesake Ryan here. Grant was too prolific during his solo years and could have used a bit quality control before releasing HBS, what a killer single disc that would have been. Similarly just imagine if Ryan had cherrypicked the best songs from the 3 albums he released this year and released them on 1 CD. As for Robert, I was interested to see Matts slant on Roberts 5 songs a year ethic. This sits nicely with my own belief that Roberts songs are the best songs he sees fit to release, anything below a certain standard he sets for himself would be binned. I wish other songwriters would follow his lead. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 235 Registered: 03-2005 |
Ok, I didn't see Matt's entry when writing mine. My suspicion has been that Robert has a bit more say in what occurs than Grant. Let's just say Grant is the "beta male" in the relationship. I think somebody needs to edit Robert more. I still say "Born to a Family" is self-congratulatory twaddle with the musical substance of the FAO Schwartz ditty or Disney's "It's a Small World After All" (which I believe was thankfully retired from the theme parks a number of years ago.) My apologies to those of you who don't know what these egregious examples sound like but they are exactly what "Born to a Family" evokes for me. Lyrically, Robert's been pretty weak in recent years and while the memory song is a good concept Robert's doing too many of them. I suppose he doesn't want his wife mad at him for writing something about their relationship. I wonder if Robert would let Grant do something like "Malibu 1969" which I really like and which I suspect Robert would deem too noisy. "Horsebreaker Star" DOES make a great single disc album; that's how the Americans issued it, although I can't understand why "Lighting Fires" was annexed. But what is "Warm Nights"--half a decent album? "Finding You," and "Boundary Rider" are pretty good and "The Statue" is at least nice-sounding and I agree with whoever it was on this board who pipped "Unfinished Business" as a nice piece of work but I'm still waiting for Grant to hit something out of the park since the reformation. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 79 Registered: 03-2006 |
Not to go against the flow here, or be Devil's advocate, but I probably prefer GM's input and stuff...though it's really neck and neck...I think the McCartney - Lennon model/comparison, whatever, works in talking about them...Grant is the more gifted melodist (melodicist?), a la Macca, whereas Robert and his stuff have more personality, much like Lennon...he makes the group more interesting and is clearly the frontman... I actually agree with Randy about "Born to a Family" though I probably don't dislike it as much, or find it as cloying. But, it is, imo, a slight song, that RF carries off by sheer force of personality, as he does "Lavender"... I think the best songs off of OA are largely GM's, though the worst, "This Night" belongs to him...And RF does contribute one of the best, "Mountains"... German Farmhouse doesn't do much for me, and neither did Surfing Magazines, till I saw them do it live on the DVD and realized what an anthem it is...amazingly catchy...Spirit and When She Talks To Angels are great, too... To me, Finding You, No Reason, Boundary Rider, and, this is perverse of me, since no one else seems to like it, the Statue, are all career peaks, examples of the guy operating at the peak of his powers... I also have preferred the GM solo albums - I actually pull them out to listen to, instead of just having them to be a completist...Not so much the RF, though I make an exception for "Danger" - pretty much RF's solo masterwork, and one I do revisit... My take on HBS is a little different, than some, too...In the States, you could only buy it as a single, which works fine as an album, but I lost it in a move, then re-bought the import double disc, and I have to say, I'm glad to hear the missing tracks...I think that batch of songs is some of his best ever... It pains me to pick a favorite out of the two though...I way prefer them together... As for Ryan Adams, I gotta say I completely agree with you, Kev...talk about needing an editor. I am personally buying no more discs by him - that last, 29, was pitifully weak. Someone stop this man before he records again! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 230 Registered: 05-2005 |
Randy, your intense dislike of Born To A Family is reaching intense proportions! You've mentioned it several times since the album came out. I remember what you first said was you did not like it because it reminded you too much of something you would come up with yourself and not be happy with (not your exact words, but I think that was the gist of it). Well, I love Born To A Family. It is a slight song, but is a very funny, poignant slight song. Maybe you're being too hard on your own song writing abiliities Randy? | ||
| gareth w Member Username: Gareth Post Number: 57 Registered: 05-2005 |
Hardin, i'm with you on '29'. Really p!ss poor i thought. Some magazines gave it 5/5 which i find amazing. I loved 'Cold Roses' but this was as poor as it gets for me. That flamenco number towards the end was a shocker. Note to Ryan Adams: write some tunes next time around. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 81 Registered: 03-2006 |
Cold Roses was smashing...but then, it sounded like he actually put some work into the tunes and arrangements...radical idea... But yeah, I like that one, and I also really like the disc he did with (as?) Whiskeytown, called "Strangers Almanac"... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 236 Registered: 03-2005 |
Yes, Padraig, after posting this comment I realized "I gotta stop carping about 'Family.'" I don't really know much about Ryan Adams. A friend of mine likes him a lot and I played one of his albums--I think it had an American flag on it?--and just thought it pleasant but unremarkable. I forgot all about it promptly. I was on my first visit to Amsterdam at the time so maybe it got lost in the rush of impressions. But on that same visit I heard the first Strokes album and liked that one enough to listen a second time, so maybe not? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 181 Registered: 04-2005 |
Maybe Grant has dried up a little after his extremely prolific solo years (four solo albums with one a double, plus two Jack Frost and one FOC albums) and the songs aren't coming so easily now. I would say the five best songs off of "In Your Bright Ray" are better than any of the three batches of five he did for the GoBs Mk II albums. I read a quote of Robert's where he said Grant's initial batch of songs for FORW was really weak so he more or less rejected them, but a lot of people here would say even the revised batch is lacking. The Ryan Adams comparison (to Grant in the '90s anyway) makes sense--and Robert Pollard is another classic example of this. Some artists need a quality control person to say, "Not every song you write needs to be heard. Take the 30 you just played for me, pick the 12 best, and then work on them some more. After that, record your album." On the other hand, if Forster manages to scratch out only two or three songs a year and still comes up with things as slight as "Born to a Family" (which I don't hate like Randy does) or "Lavender," maybe self-editing isn't all it's cracked up to be either. | ||
| C Suabo Member Username: Chet Post Number: 2 Registered: 04-2006 |
Sad to say, but I agree with Kurt about Grant. While I loved his solo work up to and including Horsebreaker Star, I feel he has slipped. The only recent song of his I love didn't even make an album, Locust Girls. The songs are musically and lyrically generic and do not grab me the way they did before the hiatus. Whereas Robert is mining his history and penning autobiographical gems such as Born to a Family, Surfing Magazines, When She Sang about Angels, etc. While Born to a Family is slight in regards to actual content, that is part of its brilliance. He tells his story simply and with verve. Nothing wrong with that. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 67 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hardin, I have Whiskeytown's "Strangers Almanac". Caitlin Cary, who sang with Whiskeytown and played the violin, released a great album last year with Thad Cockrell, "Begonias". "Begonias" is my favorite album of 2005. It's the best country male/female duet album since "Grievous Angel". | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 294 Registered: 03-2006 |
I agree 1000% with you, Michael. Begonias is outstanding. It kicks the arse of most other country music out there right now and makes it its bitch. And, it really is the closest approximation of the spirit of Gram and Emmylou I've heard - without being in the least imitative of it. Am I adequately conveying that I like this record? | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 324 Registered: 05-2005 |
christ, isnt napster wonderful! a quick search finds that they have "begonias". downloading it now and very much looking forward to hearing it based on your recommendations Michael and Hardin. as an aside, i used to be lukewarm on the idea of Napster. But that was before they upped the bitrate of their files to 192K and therefore comparable to CD quality, and before I hooked my hi-fi up to my PC. For a membership of £9.99 a month I can download as much music as I want and play it back through my amp and speakers - saving me an absolute fortune  | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 295 Registered: 03-2006 |
Hope you like it, man. But hey, any disc that features a song called, "Please Break My Heart" and manages to cover soul man extraordinaire Percy Sledge's "Warm & Tender Love" has got its heart in the right place. (Absolutely trivial) aside about Percy: He lived in Baton Rouge, La., where I hail from. In fact, a woman I worked with lived in the same neighborhood as him. Her daughter, who worked at the local video store, said Percy's kids rented a lot of pornos. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 68 Registered: 01-2005 |
What I also like about "Begonias" was the Hammond B3 organ swells in some of the songs. They really fit in with the fiddle and guitar. Another song that I liked was "Conversations About A Friend (whose in love with Katie)" a seven minute plus stunner. I don't think there was a dud song on the whole album. | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 326 Registered: 05-2005 |
there is a great hammond solo in Warm & Tender Love Michael. On first listen this is a good album, a bit early for me to be thinking of it in the same ballpark as Grievous Angel though | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 69 Registered: 01-2005 |
Kevin, keep listening! Lots of depth to the songs that unfolds with repeated plays. I am not saying that Thad and Caitin are as great as Gram or Emmylou were on Grievous Angel, but to these ears it's the best male/female duet singing album since GA. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 300 Registered: 03-2006 |
Yeah, GP and Grievous Angel set the bar impossibly high, but this is still about the best duet singing I've heard since... Did you pick up any of Caitlin's solo stuff, Michael? Decent, if not stellar - one exception though: the song "Shallow Heart Shallow Water" completely knocks me out. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 70 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hardin, I have her second solo album on order. I also have Sweetwater by Tres Chicas. Caitlin is a member of Tres Chicas, along with the other two Chicas. They have a newer album out as well that I have on order. Singing chores are spread between the 3 chicas. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 304 Registered: 03-2006 |
Michael, I have the new Tres Chicas. Pleasant enough, but I'm reserving judgement, as it hasn't really grabbed me yet...love the voices, though. Not to go on too much about "Begonias", but the songwriting on it is so high caliber, all the songs really stand out. Dang you and Kevin, I'm so highly suggestible, I had to listen to it last night after hearing you all talk about it, and it really is that good. And "Conversations about a friend" is excellent, just gorgeous. It reminds me of one of those great old George Jones songs, like "Girl at the End of the Bar", lyrics-wise. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 72 Registered: 01-2005 |
Hardin, I have to get some George Jones one of these days. I finally ordered some Hag, "I'm a Lonesome Fugitive / Branded" is on it's way to me. Also my first Townes Van Zandt "Live at the Old Quarter". "Begonias" is going to be one of those albums that will never get old or dated for me. I hope Caitlin and Thad put out another album soon and tour, but it's probably not going to be until next year. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 307 Registered: 03-2006 |
Ah Michael, that's how it starts...I picked up one of that new series of Hag re-issues and ended up getting 'em all. They've done a splendid job of remastering and the packaging is excellent. Ole Hag was really firing on all six back then - it's an astonishing set of albums. I get 'em confused, but my two most favorite out of that series of albums are "Mama Tried" and "Swinging Doors/Tonight the Bottle Let Me Down". And of course, Haggard's newer stuff is no slouch either. IMO, it seems like some of those country greats that are still with us, Willie, Merle and George, just aren't properly appreciated...they should be canonized, parades should be held, faces put on stamps, etc...we won't always have them and they're getting up there. Haven't properly investigated TVZ yet, but his reputation is about as sterling as they come. | ||
| Hugo Member Username: Hugo Post Number: 13 Registered: 06-2005 |
Like several others here, I initially preferred Grant's songs, but in later years have veered towards Robert. The reason, I think, is that what I saw as touching and emotional in my twenties, I am now more likely to think as overly sentimental as I creak towards my forties. Therefore Robert's more sardonic and idiosyncratic approach appeals more now that Grant's earnestness. More objectively, I do think Robert's songs been considerably stronger over the reunion albums. Oceans Apart in particular - Grant simply has nothing as good as Darlinghurst Nights or Mountains Of Delray. | ||
| jerry hann Member Username: Jerry_h Post Number: 115 Registered: 07-2005 |
Meant to post earlier, thanks michael for the tip on Caitlin Cary, had a listen on iTunes and sounded "right up my street". Have not been able to find in in my town and don't want ot download it so will get it form Amazon along with the Neko Case. Busy Easter etc family staying etc, |