| Author | Message | ||
     kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 230 Registered: 05-2005 |
On another thread I asked about Death Cab For Cutie, and if they were any good. I have listened to Transatalntacism a few times, and it is an "ok" album but its one I probably wont listen to again. I have a theory that now I am in my 40s (and I would hazard a guess most peeps on here will never see 30 again, if not 40) that I would probably appreciate music like DCFC, Strokes, Arctic Monkeys and many others a lot more if I was in my 20s. I think this music targets a certain age group (teens,20s) and I can see the appeal but not really "get it". However, the same cannot be said for early Dylan, Joy Division, 70s period Bowie, Elvis Costello (up to mid 80s), REM (up to Green) and many others. These artists made records that appealed to the kids and people our age, eg timeless music. Or am I talking crap? | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 204 Registered: 04-2005 |
I think there's something to that. The Beatles have already proven themselves timeless, as has the Velvet Underground, and I'd agree with all the others you've mentioned. The Go-Betweens definitely fit into that category--more so, I'd say, then their contemporaries the Smiths, who while great, sometimes sound like silly adolescent angst to my older ears. Maybe a wordy and clunky way of defining it would be "music that appeals/speaks to you when you're younger but doesn't make you feel stupid for having felt that way once you get older"? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 226 Registered: 10-2004 |
I think that a fair amount of new music sounds fresher to younger people, while it often sounds hopelessly trendy and derivative and/or mediorcre to old farts like me. And I'm not even really old at all! It's frustrating because I'd love to have a slew of new, current bands around that I could really get into and enjoy, but I'm continually disappointed with much of what I hear. There just seems to be a plastic and insincere quality to a lot of indie music that gets passsed off as cool these days. Disposable. And too much attention put into projecting a certain fashionable image. And of course what's really funny about this is that I read an interview with Peter Buck from about 1983 in which he pretty much says the exact same thing I've just said. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 132 Registered: 03-2006 |
It's impossible to say this kind of stuff without sounding old-farty, but I think there is a real diminution in quality and lack of substance in a lot of these "kids'" music...a lot of it seems like "toner-depleted copies" (I stole that phrase from a Rolling Stone review of a Son Volt disc. I like them - RS didn't like the disc.) of music that was a zillion times better in its original incarnation...this seems particularly true of bands that are almost identical copies of bands, or sounds,that came earlier...Interpol is a particularly egregious offender, if you ask me...I buy way too much music and stuff that you can pull out 10, even 20, years later and have it still resonate is extremely rare...The "shiny" wears off of so many of these trendy things so quickly, even if you like it at first - you can almost visualize trading it in at the used place as soon as you buy it! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 229 Registered: 10-2004 |
Hardin, I know exactly what you mean. I've bought a number of new albums by *new* bands over the past five or so years, and have been frustrated by how even if I like them initially, it wears off really quickly. For example, this has happened to me with the Shins, Interpol, Ted Leo, and several others. I also think that "toner-depleted copies" analogy is especially apt! | ||
| kevin Member Username: Kevin Post Number: 232 Registered: 05-2005 |
Jeff,the Shins are ace. Did you give them a fair chance? I also like some of Ted Leo's stuff, but a whole album may be a bit much. tell you what though, i would love to see them live | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 136 Registered: 03-2006 |
I can't believe that, 20 years hence, fans of the Arctic Monkeys or Deathcab or Interpol will be speaking of them with the same passion as you see coming from the denizens of this board...Not that there's anything wrong with them, to paraphrase Seinfeld, but I have the Arctic Monkeys disc, it's good, but who'm I kiddin'? They won't even be around in 20 years, so it won't matter if their fans still care... Yes, the GBs are inarguably timeless - I bet that's something everyone on this board can agree on...Also, they are complete originals - though they have certain influences (Dylan, Creedence and Television are the main ones I've read about, but I think there is some Talking Heads in there, too), they are completely unique and there is nothing else quite like them. Sui generis, as they say. | ||
| Geoff Holmes Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 78 Registered: 05-2005 |
Timeless music is stuff that always speaks to people no matter what their age. It can do this with lyrics that are always somehow true, and it can do it with melodies that will forever haunt memories. Songs can always be played at another rhythm, but I can't think, at the moment, of any song that has just a rhythm that is timeless although, obviously, some songs sound better with different rhythms. Maybe this is why so much dance music is so instantly forgettable and why people like me, trying to hunt down timeless music, find it so unapetitising. I think a lot of music acts as a soundtrack to our lives too and so good memories may be associated with (really) crap music. I agree with you, Hardin, about the Artic Monkeys. They are not timeless. I base that on my definition of timeless - they don't have great melodies and the lyrics don't seem to sum up any truths that apply to anyone. I may of course be very wrong as there are always those bands that seem to "teach" you new ways to listen to music. For me The Jesus and Mary Chain were one of them, but I wouldn't call them timeless either. The Go Betweens are therefore timeless to us here because they DO have great melodies, great lyrics and they have probably been the soundtrack to our step into adulthood. | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 208 Registered: 08-2004 |
I am constantly enthusiastic about the new stuff that's coming out for the kids these days. There is a lot of great music being made at all times, the challenge is filtering out all the shit. Yet again I've avoided the question, timelessness is unpredictable, enjoy it now, if it sounds crap in a years time at least it had it's moment. It was there for you & you were there for it. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 276 Registered: 05-2005 |
Classical music is timeless. The GoBetweens are timeless, Geoff, I think you are right, they are because they help you in many aspects of life's transitional phases, like, my new born twin girls last year, the album, OA and everything else became about them, and nothing that I played by GB's seemed to be outdated, it was if it were yesterday. Now, Orange Juice... Actually, High Land Hard Rain by Aztec Camera, that's a funny one, similar to GB's, suppose for me it has dated coz I don't rate Roddy, haven't done since that album, save for some of Frestonia 10 years ago. The Residents are timeless too! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 277 Registered: 05-2005 |
oh, forgot to say, I'll be playing Finding You on the old piano whilst teaching my fifteen year old twin daughters the chords from the Best of GB's song book, I'll put money on it!! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 251 Registered: 03-2005 |
My theory about what proves to be timeless or not is that it depends on how honest something is. Even if the music, or art or whatever, is steeped in an adolescent frame of reference, if the writer or musician or artist is really struggling to get his or her idea out it will continue to express something that is true years later even to those of us who are not in that spot in our lives any longer. The things that date the most painfully to me are the things that were self-conscious at the beginning: the "cool" things. I hate "cool" because it is always contrived and never timeless. Ditto "clever." If you are always looking over your shoulder to see if people get the joke, you are doing shit my friend. David Bowie is a frequent candidate for this particular discard box. And while I still enjoy listening to them now, I can't help wondering if that's where I'll find Belle & Sebastian in another decade. I wouldn't single out the current generation of bands as special culprits because I remember all the disposable rubbish from the 1980s, some of which I still have gathering dust on the CD shelves. Lene Lovich, for one easy example. And while I know many will object to this, I'd put Kate Bush there too. I would not even totally dismiss dance music because The Fall are nothing if not purveyors of disco to the righteous. And, for my money, the intensely danceable "The Light Pours Out of Me" is absolutely timeless. So that's my thesis: is it honest? Then it stands a decent chance of lasting. The Go Betweens don't even seem to have the capacity to lie. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2005 |
I promised myself to buy more new music this year and so far it’s been only mildly rewarding. The only album I really love from my recent excursions is ‘Hello, Dear Wind’ by Page France, but I just got their new double-EP, 'Pear'/'Pinecone' and it’s not nearly as good… all the acoustic guitars replaced by elemental keybored thunking. People like Sufjan Stevens and Devandra Banhardt and Jens Leckman (found one of his albums) are making good, interesting music, but the age factor definitely weighs-in and my enthusiasm is tempered. I’m certainly very happy to see SMiLE and Donovan and Jonathan Richman and Big Star 3rd influencing young music-makers. There are way too many fax-bands out there, but to their credit, the Arctic Monkeys aren’t one of them. Their songs may not all be hook-filled gems, but there’s nothing artificial about the band. Even with the thick accent I can pretty much understand every word and it’s the stories and characters in the songs that are the focus. I think they’re the first rock band to use the narrative syntax of rap without it sounding like a collision of styles. Very wordy, but in a good way - I can understand why my daughter and her friends all like them. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2005 |
Forgot to mention, good post Randy. | ||
| Geoff Holmes Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 81 Registered: 05-2005 |
Devendra Banhardt is very good from what I've heard of his and it always makes me SMiLE when he name-drops Donovan! The Don is one of the "sacred" "B's and D's" for me...Beatles, Byrds, Dylan, Donovan! | ||
| Erhard Grundl Member Username: Erhardgrundl Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2005 |
i verymuch agree with Randy Adams! for Belle& Sebastian I think the first three albums(Tigermilk, If you`re feeling sinister and Boy with the Arab Strap) are timeless but from then on they became boring - making "Belle&Sebastian-Albums". The first Strokes Album will hold up against time, i think. but their next two albums were big letdowns. The only "newer" acts that haven`t released anything but timeless stuff for me are The White Stripes and CocoRosie. and last year a band called "Art Brut" released an album called "Bang Bang Rock and Roll" filled to the rim with classic songs. They deserve big success. | ||
| Hardin Smith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 149 Registered: 03-2006 |
Did you see the "Don't Look Back" documentary about Dylan, Geoff? It has several scenes featuring your two D's...Bob and Don trade songs... I think Belle and Seabastian still got it, but have to admit Tigermilk is still my all time fave by them. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 213 Registered: 04-2005 |
That scene where Dylan totally cuts Donovan's silly love song by following it with "It's All Over Now, Baby Blue" is a classic. You can see a sheepish look on Donovan's face; he knows he's been gutted by the master. Nobody's done the mean/cool rock star thing better than Dylan did it in '65-66, not even Lennon or Lou Reed. | ||
| Geoff Holmes Member Username: Geoff Post Number: 112 Registered: 05-2005 |
Yeah, I saw "Don't Look Back" many years ago at Uni. The thing about Donovan though is that he was into Woody at the same time as Uncle Bob but on the other side of the pond. From what I've read, he was doing Woody style stuff before he'd even heard of Dylan. The Don was also much more interested in those things that we normally associate with 60's psychedelia like unusual instruments and jazz/folk fusion, and he was also doing it AHEAD of the game. Apart from oblique lyrics bourne of too much speed, Dylan didn't dabble in psychedelic music at all. Dylan is a whole other dimension obviously, but the Don certainly found respect and friendship with the Beatles at that time, whether or not Dylan thought he was naff. And anyway, Dylan was probably influenced by the Beatles, and the Beatles were influenced by Donovan and the Byrds and Dylan and the Beach Boys. And the Byrds were influenced by the Beatles and Dylan, and the Beach Boys were influenced by the Beatles....it's all that great cross fertilisation that made the mid 60's SO great. He had his smaller but significant part to play in the evolution of rock music. | ||
| Charles Member Username: Charles Post Number: 10 Registered: 04-2006 |
Some good reading on this thread. It's distressing though, to consider, that if there is so little new music that could be considered timeless being produced, we may one day have a finite supply of the stuff. If we only the the artists we've acknowledged that make the grade, to listen to, to the grave, then we'll really be challenging our expectations of them. I'm not too worried at the moment though, cause I'm really starting to get into Bob Marley. He makes timeless music. When you suggested Geoff, that a rhythm could be timeless, would a reggea beat be a good example? I'm really enjoying his love songs the most, being as it is a timeless theme. It's his powerfull, sparse use of words and soulfull voice which really moves me, songs like Waiting In Vain, Come in From the Cold, The Sun is Shining. I've only got two of his Cds, so there's lots to look forward to. What do you guys think of Bob M ? Do you think Jack Johnson and Ben Harper are making timeless music? | ||
| David Matheson Member Username: David_matheson Post Number: 84 Registered: 12-2004 |
I think timelessness in music can only be really assessed retrospectively. Most stuff that is now considered timeless was probably not considered that way when first released. Some music disappears soon after release or the appreciation of it diminishes. Other music seems to linger and linger. And eventually, hey presto, it is timeless. Regarding the age thing. I read an article once saying something like whatever music you get into in your late teens/early twenties is the stuff that stays with you. This time in life is an important time of becoming independent and the music we like then kind of becomes the soundtrack to our future independent life. Makes sense to me. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 325 Registered: 03-2005 |
Excellent distillation of the 60s transatlantic cross pollination, Geoff. I think it is true that the age of the person when first exposed can be a powerful factor. But it is not determinative. I like to think that I get as passionate about music now as I did 30 years ago. I don't have kids, so music is still it with me. I definitely agree that timelessness usually only shows up in retrospect. The exception that proves the rule is "Like a Rolling Stone." I think we all knew it was in its own league even when it was new. | ||
| Erhard Grundl Member Username: Erhardgrundl Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2005 |
very interesting point, Randy about "rolling stone". but to my surprise i just read some reviews from melody maker and nme from 1965 where both mags thought the song were boring and tuneless 6 minutes which will leave no impact at all and that it`s "all over now for Dylan"(!) | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 361 Registered: 05-2005 |
Aaprt from the odd Linn drum (they were signed to Linn!), The Blue Nile are timeless... | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 326 Registered: 03-2005 |
That's hilarious Erhard. Good thing I didn't read in those days. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 77 Registered: 01-2005 |
I would add the Fairport Convention when Sandy Denny was in the band, they are timeless. The Richard and Linda Thompson albums, "Shoot Out The Lights", "Pour Down Like Silver" "I Want To See The Bright Lights Tonight" "Hokey Pokey" are timeless. |