| Author | Message | ||
     david nichols |
I hope I didn't mention this before, I've been thinking about it a while... "Send Me A Lullabye signifies a change of allegiance: from the radical whimsy of Jonathan Richman to the first recordings by The Cure. Though the band were soon to regret it, it was a necessary change of direction for their future development. Discuss." | ||
| Mark |
I like it. Can we all bullshit a lot? I think I'll need to. | ||
| david nichols |
Yes, please. That's what it's all about. | ||
| Michelle |
This is not for me but I look forward to the replies. Especially Mark's essay as he is always very amusing. It has been years since I have done formal study yet I still have nightmares where I have an assignment due or a looming exam for which I haven't prepared. I don't know why as I passed all exams and never had a late assignment - although the quality may have been a bit dodgy at times. My favourite response to an assignment was from a tutor who told me (when I picked it up), "It was beautifully written but it didn't say anything." I already knew that was true and I had drawn a picture of a potted aspidistra on the cover sheet to try and distract her attention from the following essay. (It was about George Orwell.) It almost worked as she told me that her colleague was very jealous as none of her students had gone to such trouble. Despite it being "a little light on detailed analysis" I got 14 out of 20. I think she liked me. | ||
| jeff |
Okay, I'll bite. Yeah, it was necessary if they wanted to compete with the slew of post-punk/new wave bands everywhere, many of whom were sounding rather artsy/difficult/moody/etc... at the time. I suppose you could argue that the stylistic shift was key in getting signed to Rough Trade, a label which at the time was full of abstract/artsy post-punk bands like the Raincoats and the Fall, among many others. It seemed like around '79 - '81, adopting that sort of sound (provided you did it well) could guarantee you an audience and some hipster cred. Not to say that the Go-Betweens' motives were calculated; I'm sure they were genuinely inspired by this particular sound, and Lindy coming on board as drummer had an awful lot to do with it as well. But, on some level I'm sure they knew this sound would help them get a foot in the door, and be taken more seriously. Maybe I dreamt this up, or just plain don't have my facts straight, but I seem to recall something from your book, David, that told of Robert and Grant trying to get signed to Rough Trade on their first trip to the UK, only to be found merely amusing and getting rejected. Then they made their way up to Scotland and did the Postcard single, which oddly enough, if it wasn't for Josef K, would've really stuck out like a sore thumb as it didn't exude the simple, tweeness of Orange Juice's pop (although it's one of my very favorite Postcard singles, that and the first two Aztec Camera singles). It almost seems like the Lee Remick and People Say would have been better suited to Postcard's overall aesthetic, being so naive, wide-eyed, and youthful and all. At any rate, it's hard to deny that sticking to stuff like Lee Remick and Karen (as brilliant as that was), would result in an artistic dead end, rendering the Go-Betweens a novelty act. Surely they had to make some sort of shift in their sound to get away from that, be it the dischordant post-punk path they chose, or something else entirely [techno pop? that would've been pretty interesting... ;)]. Let's just be glad they got out of it and evolved into the beautiful, melodic pop band we all know and love. I mean, Send me a Lullaby has some brilliant songs, like Careless, One thing Can Hold Us, Hold your Horses, Your Turn My Turn, etc.. but to me they didn't always pull the artsy-jagged thing off as well as some of their contemporaries did. At times it just sounded awkward and self-concious, or just plain bad (Arrow in a Bow, for example). Ultimately, this sound proved to be yet another dead-end. In thinking about this, it suddenly occurred to me the the Sound of Rain was kind of a pivotal song. It differed quite a bit from the songs before it in that it was more serious and accomplished sounding by comparison. More minor key, and the subject matter could be taken more seriously, or at least analyzed on more levels than one. There was something more serious and, well, Cure-like about it that to me signalled a deliberate stylistic shift or transition. That shift was then seen full-blown on I Need Two Heads/Stop Before You Say It. But back to Lullaby - what's interesting to me is how long it actually took them to completely get out of the dark, herky-jerky phase. Ironically, as sick as they were of this particular sound, they kept churing out songs in this style, like A Peaceful Wreck, Near the Chimney, and Cracked Wheat, not to mention Heaven Says, which had to have been a hold-over from that phase. But then what's even stranger is that the germs of greater, poppier things to come could be found as early as the Very Quick on the Eye demos with pop gems like Hope and One Thing Can Hold Us. Go figure! Being a musician, I know from experience that it can be difficult to shake yourself of certain habbits or stylistic tendencies. It's not always easy to get out of a rut, and sometimes not always clear that you're in a rut in the first place! So, from that perspective, I guess their gradual, seemingly tentative shift into poppier terrain makes sense. What's truly amazing is how much growth they made in the span of 4 years. I feel like I'm rambling now so I'll stop here for the time-being. Jeff | ||
| Mark |
The cover sheet (I hope this works!) .' '. : : | _ _ | .-.|(o)(o)|.-. _._ _._ ( ( | .--. | ) ) .',_ '. .' _,'. '-/ ( ) \-' / /' `\ \ __ / /' `\ \ / '--' \ / / \.' './ \ \ \ `"===="` / `-` : _ _ : `-` `\ /' |(o)(o)| `\ /' | | /`-.-`\_ / \ _..:;\._/V\_./:;.._ / .--. \ .'/;:;:;\ /^\ /:;:;:\'. | ( ) | / /;:;:;:;\| |/:;:;:;:\ \ _\ '--' /__ / /;:;:;:;:;\_/:;:;:;:;:\ \ .' '-.__.-' `-. | ||
| jerry |
what the fuck? | ||
| jerry |
???????????????????????????? | ||
| Mark |
It's meant to be the cover sheet (as mentioned by Michelle), the only thing that I think Jeff neglected in his excellent reply. Like so many good intentions, it didn't work. Go to http://www.chris.com/ascii/ and click on the Wallace & Grommit link to see a picture of what I intended. Jeff: Since I am now the co-contributor of your excelent essay on David's fascinating topic, I expect at least 1/2 the credit!  | ||
| jeff |
Nice try Mark, but no dice! Maybe I'll consider it if you can come up with a potted aspidistra. That, or a computer rendering of Robert standing naked, save for a pair of tighty-whities, with Australia outlined on his belly. | ||
| Michelle |
Mark, you are always amusing but that slipup made me laugh out loud. Bye the way, stop blueing with David. I know he starts it but don't make me have to come in and mediate. I used to threaten the kids with a cane backscratcher and I am not afraid to use it. | ||
| Mark |
Slipups are in my middle name. I'm also rather fond of being spanked. ..but if there is one thing that makes me quake with fear, that would be the scorn of a lady. | ||
| david nichols |
'Yeah, it was necessary if they wanted to compete with the slew of post-punk/new wave bands everywhere, many of whom were sounding rather artsy/difficult/moody/etc' So it was a deliberate ploy? I agree that 'Lindy coming on board as drummer had an awful lot to do with it as well', particularly coming from Zero which was (as far as I can gather from what people who saw them say/post-Lindy recordings) a pretty angular, sparse, kind of group who didn't mind the odd mid-song tempo change etc. Or the odd mid-song punch-up. I am not entirely sure I agree it was on any level calculated. That kind of indie rock looked like the future - some of that approach/sound did get co-opted into the mainstream. Remember also that SMAL was the last stand of the Forster-dominated GoBs, and it's the only GOBs album (aside from the Lost album) which has more Forster songs. A connection? 'It almost seems like the Lee Remick and People Say would have been better suited to Postcard's overall aesthetic, being so naive, wide-eyed, and youthful and all.' Yes. And basically I think they were asked to do a record for Postcard on the strength of those 1st 2 singles and came out of the studio with something much more spiky than A. Horne might have expected. 'At any rate, it's hard to deny that sticking to stuff like Lee Remick and Karen (as brilliant as that was), would result in an artistic dead end, rendering the Go-Betweens a novelty act.' So true. So they were looking for substance, and found it in their early 80s contemporaries? 'techno pop? that would've been pretty interesting' Cut It Out 'In thinking about this, it suddenly occurred to me the the Sound of Rain was kind of a pivotal song...There was something more serious and, well, Cure-like about it that to me signalled a deliberate stylistic shift or transition. That shift was then seen full-blown on I Need Two Heads/Stop Before You Say It.' That's interesting. I don't see that song in that way. I think of it as an aberration, largely because it seems like such a Peter Walsh showcase. Certainly I have heard a tape of them trying to play it without him (I don't know whether the tape is from before he joined or after he left) and still feel this way. The shooting of the girl in SOR actually gets up my nose, which is why I put it in that earlier category. Partly it's just dated. I guess the Cure were into that Killing an Arab thing and RF was into shooting girls in his songs. I wonder if there's any symbolism in that... ! 'they kept churing out songs in this style, like A Peaceful Wreck, Near the Chimney, and Cracked Wheat, not to mention Heaven Says, which had to have been a hold-over from that phase.' So true. And even later things like that 'Marco Polo Jr' have that stilted style. I really like that stuff, mind you. 'It's not always easy to get out of a rut, and sometimes not always clear that you're in a rut in the first place!' Also very true. | ||
| jeff |
"I am not entirely sure I agree it was on any level calculated. That kind of indie rock looked like the future - some of that approach/sound did get co-opted into the mainstream. Remember also that SMAL was the last stand of the Forster-dominated GoBs, and it's the only GOBs album (aside from the Lost album) which has more Forster songs. A connection?" I wasn't saying it was really calculated, but more like, here's this scene, or newly developing style, that they were inspired by, and as you say, "it looked like the future." It was probably something that really just felt right at the time. On one hand, Robert had to do *something* to get out of the Lee Remick garage-pop rut, so he ventured into a style that was more likely to make the Go-Betweens sound relevant in the climate they found themselves in. I'm sure his motives were sincere in that he genuinely liked this sound. If there was any calculation, it was on a more sub-concious level. On the other hand, a lot of it probably had to do with just absorbing what Robert thought was "cool" back then. Being surrounded by bands like Zero, the Birthday Party, etc... it may have been inevitable that this influence would find its way into Robert's songwriting. Regarding SMAL being the last Forster-dominated album, I think it was becoming clear that he couldn't contribute more than half an LPs worth of good songs. I think a few of those songs on SMAL, like Arrow in a Bow and The Girls Have Moved, are throw-aways; filler, which more than anything simply reflected the spare/jagged environment they found themselves in. Those songs, to me at least, sound like they were trying too hard. (Peronally, I like the jagged stuff too, but only when it still retains some shred of melody, or some pop-like attribute, however veiled, that I can cling to. Most of SMAL achieves that balance, I think.) As for Sound of Rain, yeah, I can see why the lyrics could be a bit much, but when I first heard that song, the first thing that came to mind was "Whoa, *very* early Cure." I mean, those beautiful harmonic notes in the verses are so "Play for Today" (even though SOR may predate that song), and the whole sound and feel very much resembles that stripped down, minimalist atmosphere and simple, poppy melodic approach you'd expect from The Cure circa '79 - '80. The chorus also gets a bit Velvet Underground, in that poppy Femme Fatale kind of way. But really, I think it's the most Cure-sounding song they ever did (and it's my favorite pre-Postcard song, at least on a purely musical level). Followed closely by I Need Two Heads, of course. Maybe it was all Peter Walsh's doing, but it just sounds to me like there was a little more thought invovled with this song in terms of arrangement and counter-melodies and stuff. Not a complete break from the Lee Remick stuff, but a bit of a transition. Jeff | ||
| david nichols |
I think those are good points re: the Sound of Rain. Certainly you'd imagine - since that song was recorded (and also written?) to be the b-side of either Karen or Lee Remick when they were released as separate A-sides on Beserkly, that F&McL would probably want to contribute a song that showed they had progressed from those earlier primitive songs. That said, surely Sound of Rain predates the second Cure album? I imagine that F and McL would have seen Walsh's guitar playing as kind of Byrdsy or in the vein of some of their other 60s heroes - the Lovin Spoonful perhaps, though I think that was probably more an Edwyn Collins enthusiasm than a GoBs one. | ||
| jerry |
a lot of the lost album sounds like vu to me.also a bit of television which was true of a lot of bands around that time. i'd never considered the jonathan richman link before but it certainly makes sense, especially with beserkely showing an interest on the back of the first single. | ||
| jeff |
Yeah, Sound of Rain was written/recorded in '79, right? So it definitely predates the Cure's Play for Today, which is from '80. Of course another Cure song that SOR bears some resemblance to is 10:15 Saturday Night, which first came out as Killing an Arab's b-side at the tail-end of '78. Obviously, I have no idea if Robert had even heard of the Cure at this point, but the first few Cure singles (and first album) all came out during the first half of '79, so it's possible Robert could've been familiar with this stuff. But I think it's more than likely that Robert Forster and Robert Smith just happened to be on a similar stylistic wavelength during this time, coincidentally writing songs that had more than a few stylistic parallels. I mean they were both doing the low-budet, guitar-bass-drums, minimalist new wave thing. A mood and style that more than a few bands were tapping into at that time - kinda like the Passions' Michael and Miranda, for example. The Go-Betweens kinda sounded like the Cure, but they weren't necessarily copying the Cure, I guess. It would be interesting to see at what point they got into the Cure. I know in your book you've got a reference to one of them hearing the first Cure ablum and digging it. Was that in '80 or so? Jeff | ||
| jeff |
Well, actually, I take that Passions reference back, since their sounding kinda similar to early Cure was no coincidence: they shared the same manager, Chris Parry, who happened to produce both bands' debut albums, and also had both bands signed to the same label (Fiction). | ||
| david nichols |
Don't take the Passions ref back - I think that's even more appropriate than The Cure. That first Passions album (a big fat favourite of mine) along with the Au Pairs' first album fits for me with SMAL, if not the Sound of Rain/I Want to Be Today period so much. But as far as the Cure were concerned, I guess everyone who was trying to do anything at all post-punk - so blending punk with whatever else you knew and liked, like for instance 60s pop - was likely to end up a little in that vein. As I recall Alan Horne was contemptuous of Grant and Robert for liking the Cure in 1980. Presumably this was the 1st Cure album not the second one. He also said he was annoyed because they liked Joy Division, although this sounds less likely to me. | ||
| pups |
Who are the Passions? | ||
| david nichols |
The Passions were a male-female group from twenty years ago who released three or four albums. Their first record was pushed (rather flimsily because it wasn't that cohesive a narrative) as a new wave concept album about a relationship breakup, it was called Michael and Miranda - a great post-punk record with all the necessary ingredients - abrasive guitar, power drumming, etc and strident singing. I love that record, and there's a fantastic pic of the group by a canal on the inner sleeve in their stripey t-shirts and leather jackets. Their big hit (I think it really was a hit) was 'I'm in Love With a German Film Star' which owed a lot to a Cure-ish production and a slightly reggae-ish beat. They made a bunch of other albums and then broke up, I guess they were somewhat hamstrung by the pressure to make another 'German Film Star' but no doubt didn't want to repeat themselves. I certainly recommend that Michael and Miranda though. And speaking of albums and places I completely link that record to Fremantle in Western Australia, purely because five or six years ago I found a copy of it at Freo market on cassette and we listened to it on the way back - that's how shallow I am, the rock video generation, whatever I see when I first hear an album is forever conjured up when I hear it again! | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
I'll add that I'm a huge Passions fan. But my personal favorite is their second album "30,000 Ft. Over China." It's more refined and produced than the first, but the songwriting is gorgeous; extremely melodic, moody, sophisticated, yet still retaining certain minimalist sensibilities that infuse the songs with a subtle atmosphere. Their guitarist was incredible - catchy, insanely and inventively melodic, etc... I've turned an awful lot of people on to "I'm in Love with a German Film Star," as it's a beautiful song with alternately unpredictable and hooky guitar melodies. Lot's of twists and turns, though on the surface it seems sort of simple and pretty. "Michael and Miranda" is great too, but as David states, it's more abrasive, choppy post-punk, like a blend of early Cure, prag VEC (whose singer was apparently the sister of the Passion's vocalist Barbara) and the Raincoats or Josef K. Melodic, but very skewed and kinda manic. Basically, if you like Send me a Lullaby *and* early Cure, you'll love "Michael and Miranda." And yes, the pic on the insert is priceless. But yeah, after "China" they lost their guitarist and seemed to struggle at arriving at a new identity with their third and final album. It's got some good songs, but it's slick and sounds like it was aimed at greater commercial success, though I don't think it achieved it. They broke up after that. They did release a cool single around this time, not on the album, called "Africa Mine" which is worth searching out. Jeff | ||
| david nichols |
I have a compilation LP with the lame title of 'Passion Plays: I'm in Love with a German Filmstar and Other Short Stories' which has Africa Mine on it and about half of Thirty Thousand Feet... Side one is copyright 1981 and side 2 copyright 1982 so I suppose the bulk of side 2 aside from Africa Mine is culled from the last album. All of which goes towards a definitive statement that: there's kind of another album, which isn't a real album, but that song is on it. | ||
| pups |
Thanks for the all information. They sound like a band I would like. I'll definitely hunt down those first two albums. So does anyone know where I can get Laughing Clowns CDs (not compilations). I've found one on vinyl, but they're hard to come by. | ||
| david nichols |
Looks like http://www.tt.net/hot/hotcat.html#clowns is the place to go. Only the last two LC albums are available on CD as far as I can tell. I don't think Mr Uddich Smuddich has ever been reissued though as with most things I could be wrong. Law of Nature and Ghosts of an Ideal Wife are the 'real' albums. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
David, I have never, ever, ever seen that Passion Plays record, not in person or online, in all my years of Passions obsession. So, I think you've got something that is incredibly rare, for what that's worth. Going by the copyright dates, sounds like a Metals and Shells style comp with songs mostly culled from 30,000 Ft. and Sanctuary. Cool. And pups, those Passions records tend to be rather elusive, though they're usually sold pretty cheaply when you come across them. Not sure if they've been reissued onto CD, though I recall seeing a 30,000 ft. cd once. | ||
| david nichols |
Passion Plays is a British release, very little information, orange art nouveau-styled sleeve. It cost me 50c or similar, I can't remember where, but that supports your statement - hard to find, cheap when you do. I seem to remember reading somewhere that Barbara Gogan had a career as a singer in France... but once again, vagaries of memory... | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Pups: Just be aware that the Clowns are an aquired taste. It's not strictly Rock'n Roll. Don't forget to try it before you buy it. Most people just don't like it. As far as the aural similarities with the GBs go, I think it's fair to say that whilst the GBs do sometimes sound like the Clowns, the Clowns never tried to sound like the GBs. If the link with the GBs is your main interest, I would only give anything released before '81 a try. AFAIK that only comprises 2 Prince Melon EPs and one Missing Link EP, or the aforementioned compilation album which conatines most of the Prince Melon material. (the Prince Melon stuff is harder to get). Their was also a self titled EP on Missing Link from '79. If you become a Launging Clowns fan purely on their own merits (and not because of the links with the GBs) , I think that "Mr. Uddich-Schmuddich Goes to Town" is probably their best release, although their is rather a lot of other material. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
p.s. Try http://www.dsv.su.se/~mab/LC.html for a definitive annotated discography, including the PM stuff. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Oh, reading from that discography reguarding PM 5000.
whilst cradling a mint condition copy and thinking how lucky I am to have it. | ||
| pups |
The record I have is self titled. Released in 1982 on Red Flame records. Reading the credits, it sounds like a compilation of early EPs. The songs are: The Fire Might Fall Crying Dance I Don't Know What I Want Knife In The Head Mr Riduclous Sometimes... Ghost Beat Song Of Joy Come One, Come All Collapse Board I like it very much. They remind me a little of the Go-Betweens... Actually they don't sound like anything I've ever heard before. Which is a good thing. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
That's a nice compilation. It certainly contains much of the material that I've been writing about. The discography link (above) descibes it as "rare and pricey". (but sometimes people write these things just to talk up the market value of there own records) Sometimes the GBs sound like the Clowns, never the other way around. The influence was all one way, AFIK. The best way to hear it is to listen to the Clowns album first and then listen to the first two tracks from SMAL and also The Clowns are in town from the Brisbane, 1981 compilation. Then I think you'll hear a marked similarity. I'm very pleased that you like it. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
My track selection on SMAL wasn't quite right. Try the 1'st and 3'rd tracks from SMAL. Track 3, People Know is very clownesq. The piano on track 1, Your Turn, My Turn is reminiscent of D Wallace-Crabbee's own work (their is no credit on SMAL for these keyboards, anybody know?) Lindy sounds like a simpler Jeff Wegener on Track 5, Midnight to Neon more than on any other track I know. James's Sax solo helps complete the picture, followed by a taste of Kuepper style improv guitar from Robert. Also her drum solo in the middle of Track 6, Eight Pictures is probably, and at least in part, improv. Not directly reminiscent of Wegener, but in the Jazz style that comes more from an interpretation of an emotion rather than a plan to play specific rhythms. The parallels are less obvious on the second side. Ok, enough. No more. | ||
| david nichols |
I have never seen any similarity (aside from same time period, same point of origin) between the L Clowns and the GoBs, but next time I'm listening to the LCs I'll think about it - it's an interesting idea. Did you ever see the Clowns, Mark? I saw them only a few times right at the end of their career, the line-up that made Ghosts of an Ideal Wife. Going out on a limb I would say Kuepper's Clowns songs were the best of his entire career, or perhaps I could temper that by saying they are the most distinctive and original, which is my definition of 'best' but not everyone's. I agree, Mr. Uddich Smuddich is the pinnacle (which makes it ridiculous that Mr US is not available on CD - I think Ed K is upset about the sound quality of the recording, which is a ridiculous objection as the sound quality is fine, and he certainly had no similar objection to the release of 1975 garage recordings of The Saints) though Ghosts... is also a complete classic as is the first EP. It's ALL very high quality stuff. For a time in London in the mid-80s Lindy had a band with Louise Elliott from the Clowns - I don't know what they were called or what happened with that. It must have been incredible though. Jeffery Wegener in his Clowns era is probably my favourite drummer of all time though he has some competition (from Lindy M, Jim White, Clare Moore... anyway, this isn't at all relevant... er, Ginger Baker, Alianna Kabala, Monika Fikerle... someone please stop me... alright I'll stop myself). | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yeah, I was a Clown's groupie for sure. Followed them around Melbourne quite a bit. I think it was about the time of the Uddich Smuddich release. The spring/summer of 81,82. It was a great time to be a young man. I was so modern. I used to wear pastel colours, long flaming red hair. Danced like a spastic, right in front of the stage. Unashamed to be so visibly spellbound by their music. Wow, I didn't know that Lindy was friends with Louise! I always stood in front of Louise and spoke to her in-between songs. Requesting songs or offering praise. Sometimes behaving like a one man fan club. Jeffery Wegener was mesmerizing live. If I wasn't watching Louise, I'd be captivated by Jeff. The only drummer I've ever known who could actually carry a melody on his drums. He rarely hit 'em, in as much as he caressed the sound out of them. He strummed on just about every part of his kit, the rims, the cymbal stands, the sides of the snare, the top of the kick. What was really sick about it was that I once asked Louise about Jeff's drums (Jeff never spoke, AFAIK) and she intimated that they weren't anything special, cheap in fact. It was all in the performance. (p.s. what about Art Blakey?) | ||
| lindy morrison |
I owe a real debt to Jeffrey, he had an enormous influence over my playing. For years, whatever town we were in and all over the world we would meet and get out out rubber practice pads and practice together. He was the king of the triplet accents in a myriad of combinations (the most basic known as the Bo Diddley beat) played within the 16th's and thirty-second notes he played on the tom's. He had fabulous hands and technique. He was the most fascinating man as well. I adored him. The Clowns were the first band I literally fell in love with. I thought they were amazing, so wild and chaotic and all the players fabulous. As for me Send me a Lullaby was hugely influenced by the Clowns. Rob F wrote a song called The Clowns are in Town about them coming to Brissy when we lived there. Has anyone heard it. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker |
"Rob F wrote a song called The Clowns are in Town about them coming to Brissy when we lived there. Has anyone heard it." Yeah, that's on Very Quick on the Eye. Very cool song! | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Thanks Lindy. I was wondering about that. Of course, the LCs also had a track called Clown Town ('78). I don't know if this was written about Brisbane or Melbourne. I always imagined it was Melbourne, but only because I lived there. Stylistically, I think the link is strong on some GBs tracks. Just listening to the GBs version of Clowns again, I've come across Serenade Sound. I think it might be another example of LC influenced song structure. It might even be written about that influence. Anywho, thanks again. You're my best girl ever. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Ah, the SMH routinely refers to Canberra as Clown Town. Fair enough that is too, but I now recall it was written about Sydney. The LCs were based in Sydney, and it is one of the tracks recorded in Sydney. So this seems like a more resonable explanation. | ||
| david nichols |
I always thought this song was another one of those anti-Brisbane songs, a la Brisbane Security City (and in the vein of the Saints' other song about 'Orstralia'). But I concede I didn't think about it any further than that, and it could easily be about Sydney. Why not!? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Just pick any any Australian city back then and you're right there. Clown Town. | ||
| david nichols |
You know what, it could be about London, couldn't it? Kuepper would have written it in his last days with the original Saints and it might even have been intended as a Saints song... | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
It could have been London. The LC's Bio at Howlspace claims Ed Kuepper returned to Australia late in '78 leaving Chris Bailey in London to put together a new Saints line-up . He returned to Sydney and formed a new band and Assuming the Howlspace Bio is referring to the same song, (what else could it be?) then this appears to establish that Clown Town was originally written as a Saint's song!!. What isn't clear is when it was written. The Saints based themselves in Sydney (x-Brisbane) for a few months, from December to May 1977, before moveing to London. So it could have been written in '77 but not recorded by the LCs until he returned late in '78. It's fair to say that there must be now 3 contenders for the title of Clown Town. Brisbane, London and Sydney. The lyrics: This town, Clown Town. This town is all the town that we have time. Our time, time to do all the things that we want. Throw our troubles to the wind. Life's not meant to be hard in our town, Clown Town. This town is all we have but, our time, spend time. Time to do all the things that we want. Blow some bubbles in the wind. And we know what the men of somewhere? know, and they never liked this town. With their two feet on the ground. Somewhere? sounds like "Strugton". Can someone help? Unfortunately what might be the most important clue is almost incomprehesable. I think it's a reasonable conclusion to assume that the lyrics describe a slower paced city. So, now I'm leaning towards the Brisbane interpretation. At least now I know why I always used to think that it was Melbourne. Melbourne was an extremely easy city to live in back then. Less so now. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Argh! Scrap all that. Hours of careful research just hit the bin, only moments after I hit the Post button. I just discovered that there is an LC song titled just precisely The Laughing Clowns. Sheesh. But, but ..it was such an elegant argument. My only two rewards: I now get to listen to the song accredited for breaking up The Saints and London is definitely an outside runner for the title. | ||
| david nichols |
It's probably a song about Strugton. God, that place is dull. I would say that the line 'Life's not meant to be hard in our town' suggests an Australian town - i.e. a paraphrase of Fraser's 'Life wasn't meant to be easy'. I am voting for Brisbane. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I Googled for Strugton yesterday and got zero matches. You mean it actually exists? Maybe a suburb of Brisbane? That would seal it for sure. I agree that any place that gets zero matches on Google must be the dullest place on earth. (ps. Peter Costello would be so proud of me) | ||
| michelle |
If my theory is right it could be Richmond, Randwick or an equivalent suburb. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes, it might be "Struggle Town" that Ed sings. (sounds like Strugton) Randwick, in Sydney, was (and is) known as Struggle Town. Also, the LCs did record at Richmond Recorders, so maybe they got to know Richmond. | ||
| John |
The first time I heard SMAL, I thought that it was very much a product of its time and place: early '80s Australia. It reminded me of Laughing Clowns and Birthday Party. Not in a deep, considered way; it's just that when I heard it, I thought, hey, this sounds a lot like the Laughing Clowns. In relation to Mark's bragging about owning Kuepper-related rarities, I have only ever seen one copy of the third Saints album, "Prehistoric Sounds": the CD I own. I happen to know that even Kuepper himself doesn't (or at least didn't in 1999) own a copy of that album in any form. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Re: SMAL. That's pretty much they way it was for me. They did sound like the LCs on occasions. It was an LC®GB sort of thing. The LCs were my path to the GBs. Re: "Prehistoric Sounds" No I haven't. The only Saints thing I have is the CD compilation of their garage recordings from '74 called Live from the twilight zone. I paid 4 bucks for it and got skinned. Re: My bragging about owning Kuepper-related rarities. I doubt that PM 5000 is as rare as that discography makes out. This was an overseas author and pleanty were pressed in Australia but I don't think it sold very well. They weren't rare when I bought it. Couldn't give 'em away. |