| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
Hello! Just thought you might be interested to hear about our club, which is this friday at the canterbury arms in brixton, right opposite brixton academy. How Does It Feel To Be Loved? Friday July 2nd The Canterbury Arms, Brixton 9pm-2am, £3 members, £5 non members Guest DJs and dancers: The Actionettes indie pop, northern soul, tamla motown, sixties heartbreak Playlist: The Smiths * The Supremes * The Go-Betweens * Dusty Springfield * Belle & Sebastian * Tammi Terrell * Aztec Camera * The Ronettes * Orange Juice * Beach Boys * The Temptations * Velvet Underground * Felt * The Shangri-Las * Primal Scream * Otis Redding * The Field Mice * The Stone Roses * Dexys Midnight Runners * The Four Tops * Love If you haven't heard of the Actionettes before, they're fantastic. Here's how they describe themselves: "An all female glittery dance troupe based in London, U.K. who perform to 60s girl group pop (unless we want to dance to something else...) We like to sparkle, have fun, drink cocktails and dance!" More info on them from http://www.actionettes.com Membership for the club is free. More info at http://www.howdoesitfeel.co.uk See you Friday I hope! | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Oh, ..can I buy them lots of cocktails then! And is the dance action then gratuitously extended into the lap? (Cutting strait to the chase, after the show, does the action encompass a little sideline in Adult Services? Just so I know where I stand, you understand. Shhhhhhhhhh!) ..what an absolute cultural feast you have on offer here! | ||
| michael |
Looks like the Actionettes may be best watched from some distance. No mention of full monty which is encouraging. | ||
| Catherine |
Sound a bit more 5-6-7-8's than £5-£6-£7-£8 stuck down the front of ther g-strings... | ||
| Bradders |
£5? Easy enough. But please let's have no jokes about how you could stick £6, £7 or £8 down the front of a g-string. | ||
| Catherine |
The jingling might dispense with the need for a tambourine?? | ||
| Anonymous |
I've seen the Actionettes and they're great. Have some bloody respect! | ||
| Catherine |
Ok, I'm sorry. They actually do sound good. Just got carried away there. I should have a bit more solidarity with my fellow females. Consider me suitably chastised... | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes, yes: I can see your point, Anony-mouse. The girls 'round here should respect the Actionettes for exploiting and reinforcing our male preconceptions of their womanhood. Nymphette, Crumpette and Strumpette are all fine role models for our daughters and excelent examples of what it really means to be a woman. Pay attention, girls. Visit the web-site. Read and absorb their lessons. You could really learn heaps pleasing us men. What else is there? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Yes, yes: I can see your point, Anony-mouse. The girls 'round here should respect the Actionettes for exploiting and reinforcing our male preconceptions of their womanhood. Nymphette, Crumpette and Strumpette are all fine role models for our daughters and excelent examples of what it really means to be a woman. Pay attention, girls. Visit the web-site. Read and absorb their lessons. You could really learn heaps pleasing us men. What else is there? | ||
| Catherine |
Oh, you poor misguided man. Our behaviour is solely about pleasing ourselves. Also, we women learned a LONG time ago, that the quickest method of messing with a bloke's head is to mess with their testosterone levels. Therein lies our power... | ||
| Anonymous |
If you'd seen the Actionettes, Mark, you'd realise there's very little titillation involved. They're just regular women who like dancing together. If you feel exploited by that or have male preconceptions of what that means they should be offering you, that's your problem. I imagine they really wouldn't care. | ||
| pups |
I have been reading the "poor misguided fool’s" messages for a while now. His lack of tact is astounding. I don’t think he gets out much. | ||
| Catherine |
There may be a situational element to all this. Personally, if comments like the above were made to me by a friend while out for a drink, I’d take them in the spirit they were meant, as in an attempt to wind me up, and have a laugh. They might be in line for an earful, or even a thump, but the context would always be one of fun. Problem with message boards is, we’ve all got time to stew over comments made, and blow them all out of proportion. Don’t know “the poor misguided”, but I’ve got faith in human nature, and assume the intent was one of jest. As was, and is mine. So are we all friends again?  | ||
| Catherine |
There may be a situational element to all this. Personally, if comments like the above were made to me by a friend while out for a drink, I’d take them in the spirit they were meant, as in an attempt to wind me up, and have a laugh. They might be in line for an earful, or even a thump, but the context would always be one of fun. Problem with message boards is, we’ve all got time to stew over comments made, and blow them all out of proportion. Don’t know “the poor misguided”, but I’ve got faith in human nature, and assume the intent was one of jest. As was, and is mine. So are we all friends again? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Anon: Bollocks. Reinforcing male preconceptions of what men think it means to be a woman, does a grave injustice to all those who struggle to expand the composite of qualities thought to be appropriate for a woman to hold, including other women. The Actionettes website profiles women within very narrow limits. Each member must responding to questions loaded with male preconceptions like "Like yr moves hot thing...what else do you do?" and "What drink would someone buy if they were going to buy this Actionette a drink?" as well as being asked to pass on beauty and fashion tips to other women, so that they may become just like them, in a manner and style that is very reminiscent of the format of a beauty contest. Every Actionette is defined, almost singularly, in terms of what she does to please men and very little else. I have every right to express a feeling of exploitation on behalf of everybody who contibutes to this messageboard. This place is not run for the commercial exploitation of the Actionettes. The initial anonymous posting was an advertisment, simular in form to that of an infomercial and placed here simply for the financial gain of the Canterbury Arms in Brixton. I can not stop such exploitation of this messageboard, or of men or women in general, but I can point it out and try to discourage it and I won't be itimidated into fleeing from my position. | ||
| Catherine |
Can we all take our hands off our keyboards, sit back, take a deep breath, and relax? I thought this was all a bit of fun for christ's sake! Now look, you've made me swear. Anonymous, please read back over this entire thread, with the realisation that we've all got out tongues firmly placed in cheek, and you might just see the humour. If anyone's got reason to be OFFENDED 'bout this thread it's me, the one with boobs, who's happy to put my name to any message I'll post. And I'm not offended. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Cath: 1) I took your post about "messing with a bloke's head" and "testosterone levels" for what it was. A parody of my own sarcastic line. It could not have been mistaken for serious commentary with a literal interpretation. I am not that easily hurt or entangled into argument to be drawn into a reply. Actually I quite liked it. It cracked me up. 2) Nor was mine. What surprised me was how far I would have to go to get someone (anyone?) to notice what must be considered a new class of gender exploitation. I've not come across these arrangements before. It appears to me that these women are being manipulated into a position where they dance for drinks. Why else would every dancer's profile contain the question "What drink would someone buy if they were going to buy this Actionette a drink"? Why aren't people shocked to read of employment on this basis? Is this a fitting and proper basis to employ women in the entertainment industry? Ask yourself who benifits when the patrons buy the dancers a drink? Ask yourself if the GBs have consented to their music being played at such venues under such circumstances and if you think that their music should be exploited in this way? Ask yourself what possible scenarios might arise that may lead to the further exploitation of the dancers or the patrons under this basis of employment? But, most of all, don't be tricked into believing that this is not employment, however it is disguised. The venue has a cover charge of £3 to £5 at the door. The charge is for access to the entertainment. It is at a commercial entertainment venue. The club makes money for providing the venue, the entertainment and from selling drinks to the patrons attracted by the entertainment. It's big money for the club, who must employ staff to operate the venue. Because the girls may be paid next to nothing does not alter the commercial nature of there employ. Finally, take a good look at their website. That is one fine piece of Sophisticated Boom Boom! What motivates girls who dance for nothing go to such great expense? | ||
| Anonymous |
That's the funniest post I've read in a long, long time. Well done - a very clever parody of HR gobledegook. The bit about 'they dance for drinks' is sheer genius. | ||
| Catherine |
Mark, I had another look at their website, and I don't get the impression that they are unpaid. The vibe I get is that while they started out doing this for fun, it's now become a job of sorts. Same as anyone who plays in a garage band, etc, except these women dance. I took a close look at the site, and I get more of a kitschy 60's/70's girl teen-mag vibe, than anything sinister. It seems just to be more in tune with what they're at (i.e. dressing up in sixties gear, drinking and bopping) I did a little googling also, and found this link to a festival from last year. Checked the site the page is part of, and get a vibe that while not everything within the site might not gel with my philosophies, the site wouldn't associate with anything which wasn't "right-on"... www.urban75.org/music/actionettes.html www.urban75.org For those who don't want to click the link, here's a quote from the urban.org thingy. "So, if you're looking for the latest big budget offering of stick thin, preening supermodels dancing to the tune of some string-pulling svengali, you're come to the wrong place - The Actionettes come in all shapes, sizes and ages and aren't here to please the latest style mags - they're here to have some serious fun! I think we can rest easy. They seem to be more "Riot Grrrlll" than exploited girl. I've never seen them perform, and probably won't for some time, unless they come to Ireland. Only know what I've googled, but personally I think I could see myself on a drinking session with them. And I don't associate with simpering girlies, or take no s**t from no-one. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Cath: I'm not going to tell you what your sensitivities should be. I find the very narrow portrayal of womanhood at the Actionettes site offensive to my sensitivities for the reasons that I have already more than adequately expressed. It is a sincere concern that the oppotunities for exploitation of the dancers or their patrons are manifold. The stereotypical and formulaic presentation of the dancers profiles and their names is not at all in accord with any form feminist ideology, that I am aware of. The site is offensive to me. Not only does it offend my sensitivities it is clearly exploitative of this message-board, which has been relatively Spam free in recent times. I ask you to reconsider the wisdom of overlooking this practice without protest. | ||
| Catherine |
Mark I totally respect your feeling that the site is offensive to you. Maybe, in light of Lindy’s recent article in the Sydney Morning Herald, (mentioned in another string) sensitivities are more heightened as to levels of exploitation of women in the music industry. The truth is, over the years, and in every medium, the boundaries of what is considered acceptable or exploitative have been pushed further and further. If we wanted to go back far enough, in Victorian times, a woman who showed her ANKLE was considered beyond redemption... Personally, I'd consider their site to be on the lower end of the offensiveness scale. Maybe I've just developed a thick skin over the years due to over-exposure to such things. I really don't know... Women are reclaiming their femininity, without relinquishing any of their power, or strength as individuals. I am the same person, whether I’m wearing a business suit, Jeans and T-shirt, or a frilly dress… The clichéd image of feminists in dungarees, with buzz-cut hair is just that. A Cliché. Yes, I agree that there is potential for abuse under the umbrella of such a theory. We’ve just got trust our instincts. Personally, I would be far more worried for any of my nieces, if they were looking towards Britney Spears or Christina Unspellablename as role models. I'm still pretty new to the message board, and therefore not totally au fait with what is and is not acceptable. I do agree with you about Spam, though. Frankly, I found it unusual that messages can be posted here anonymously. This opens up the possibility that any and every event could suddenly appear on the board - with no come-back on whoever posted. In an even more unsavoury scenario, personal attacks, however frivolous or nasty, can be made on any person, with no comeback. This to me the most offensive possibility. As I've said in a previous posting, I’m happy to put my name to every posting I’ll make. Frankly, if ever I heard of any event or band that I felt would be of interest to other visitors to the site, I would welcome any and all feedback. It’s like loaning a CD to a friend. No point in just shoving it through their letterbox. How are they to know who sent it? Who do they give their opinions to? If someone’s got an opinion, and are willing to voice it, why are they not prepared to own their opinions and put their name to it??? Stop hiding behind “Anonymous”. | ||
| Michelle |
Yeah, what she said!!! All of it and especially the bit about the "Anonymous" and "Initials Only" postings by those nasty cowardly people over the past few months. Thanks Catherine. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Hi Michelle, I just finished 4 weeks sowing. Been promising to myself a reply to your last Email for weeks, but I'm still sore and recovering. I didn't mean to give you the impression we'd lost touch. | ||
| michelle |
Mark, I knew you survived the accident as I note you have been causing a stir amongst the locals. We haven't had enough rain to plant. Now to continue with the lyric discussion on TMOOT. I feel this a good spot to do so and I am sure the O/Cs will be thrilled. Its all about perspective and interpretation, isn't it? There is a section that mentions "the great divide" and it is quite likely the great divide between the performer (with his back to the curtain) and the audience. Yet I think of the Great Divide (aka the Great Dividing Range) which is just a hop, skip and a jump from where I sit at this very moment in time. It was aptly named. There is a great divide between the coastal urban people who rarely climb the range and the regional and rural people here, especially in terms of basic community services. Nothing to do with the song but I mention it because I can. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
I'm always happy to discuss lyrics with anybody, anywhere. The accident had nothing to do with anything, but thanks for the thought. We finished planting two weeks ago. 4 weeks of 18 hour days. Getting up out of a chair is agony, I feel like my guts are about to burn a hole through my arse and my lower back is locked tight. I'll be back tomorrow evening to continue the TMOOT discussion. It's so lovely to hear a rational voice prepaired to take up the debate because I know the subject has a lot more milage in it yet. See ya! | ||
| hsf |
Mark wrote: "The accident had nothing to do with anything, but thanks for the thought. We finished planting two weeks ago. 4 weeks of 18 hour days. Getting up out of a chair is agony, I feel like my guts are about to burn a hole through my arse." What has any of the above got to do with the Go-betweens? I wonder if someone could clarify whether this a Go-betweens discussion board or personal diary site for egocentrics? | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
..and this from the man who indentifies himself as "the challenger" who "stood out like a sore tumb amongst all the critical thinkers" and thinks I "got his friends to post messages to the thread that heaped derision" on him. Is Wubbie a teensie-wiense little bit jealous? Then go crawl back under your rock in paranoid fairytale land. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Michelle: Is it all about perspective and interpretation? Do you mean generally or specifically in relation to TMOOT? I'm not sure. | ||
| Michelle |
Mark, I mean generally. The "great divide" was an example of this, that is, where you live can influence how you think about words. That's about it for now as it is cold and my fingers are freezing. I am having a holiday from this place so I may email you if I come up with anything better. | ||
| Mark Ilsley |
Are words all about perspective and interpretation? Technically, no. Words can be pleasing to the mind and beautiful to the senses even when we do not seek to interpret them. For example, You might enjoy the words sung in an Italian Opera, without ever seeking to understand them. If you limit the theorem to the realm of the written word, then you get much closer to the ideal but still there will be exceptions. The photomontage work of Dawn Ades, for example. She arranges thick scraps of text, with words not placed in sentences but scattered all over the surface. One can step back, and at a distance, view and enjoy the work without ever being able to gain any understanding of the meaning of the work based on the meaning of the words used to create it. There is both a visual interpretation and a perspective, but the understanding of the beholder is not necessarily gained from the meaning of the words. Reduce the theorem to the realm of reading literature and you get very close to the ideal. I've never met anybody who claims to have gained pleasure from viewing the way words are arranged on a page, without actually gaining some understanding of what the words meant, but I would not like to catagorically state that it is not possible. |