| Author | Message | ||
     Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 115 Registered: 05-2005 |
I haven't read the updated version of the Nichols book but I read the first one. Paid $30 for it plus shipping to get it from Oz to USA. Gave it to another fan at some point. But one question still begs in my mind. Did anyone else think it odd about the story about Robert wearing a dress to some industry party and blowing their big chance? Was that poetic license or did that really happen and does anyone think that's why they didn't go further. It seems weird now and I've never heard it referenced anywhere else but that book. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 521 Registered: 03-2005 |
I confess I don't credit it much. I don't think even an american industry flak would seize upon that as a reason not to sign or promote a band in 1988. After all, the big money has been made by a zillion artists who played the gender-fuck game, i.e., Jagger, Bowie, Prince, K.d. Lang. Record industry types--especially those in Hollywood--LOVE gimmicks. So I think the story is pure bunkum. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 490 Registered: 04-2005 |
Too bad David Nichols seems to have gone away; it would be interesting to hear his reply. I don't think he loaded up his book with undocumented hearsay--I get the impression accuracy was very important to him. On the other hand, RF, GM, and the others quoted about the story might be enhancing the tale just a wee bit. Does anybody have pictures of RF onstage in the dress in question? The book claims he wore it occasional during the 16LL touring. And Willsteed's been knowing to post here, right? He was in the band then. Maybe he could tell us... | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 108 Registered: 04-2005 |
Don't know about THE dress in question, but certainly he wore a dress during certain gigs during the Liberty Belle tour of Australia in '86. Neither of the nights that I saw them play in Melbourne was he cross-dressing, but I believe that I still have a review somewhere from RAR (name? Aussie music paper) with a dress photo. Are you that desperate to see it? | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2004 |
Andrew, it's obvious they want you to expose a frocked up RF. I think the magazine name you're after is RAM. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 124 Registered: 05-2005 |
You guys are too funny. Whether he wore a dress or not is not my interest. I was more interested in the claim by David (again only from my memory) that the Suits frowned upon this at the industy party and it may have cost them their future potential career. It seems implausible since people have been doing so for decades by then. I mean Boy George was a hit years before and only a few years after 1988-89, the king of grunge was doing it regularly on televised performances. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 660 Registered: 03-2006 |
OK, I'll 'fess up - I'd love to see a picture of a "frocked up" RF. Sounds f-ing funny, like the picture of GM and Robert posing in house dresses, with Lindy as the man of the house, that's featured in the Nichols book. This stuff is an interesting part of their legacy, like the Beatles saying they were bigger than Christ, or E.Costello getting into a brawl with Bonnie Bramlett...not that the dress-wearing is as calamitous, but still... | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 513 Registered: 04-2005 |
Yeah, I'd like to see the dress in question just to see if it's as outrageous as the record company suits evidently found it. I mean, given that it's Robert we're talking about, I'm sure it's a stylish and tasteful man-skirt, not some sort of drag travesty. And hey, it can't be worse than that lovely ensemble he wore for the "Head Full of Steam" video. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 125 Registered: 05-2005 |
Kurt have you seen the photo of RF in his underpants in David Nichols' book? Perhaps it's stylish, I really can't tell. Check out misha4music to see it posted on the web. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 515 Registered: 04-2005 |
Yeah, Matthias, I have...it's a bit more than I needed to see. | ||
| Andrew Kerr Member Username: Andrew_k Post Number: 110 Registered: 04-2005 |
OK stop drooling. Go http://perso.orange.fr/Vidoni-Kerr/RF.htm The reality of the photo sadly does not live up to memory (I'll go no further) and my hype. Maybe Lindy can tell us whether he borrowed her frocks? It is from RAM 26/03/1986, which contains a great Clinton Walker double page article on the band touring their homeland, but I have no idea how to scan it (its bigger than A4) and then post it somehow? I remember reading this article beside a public swimming pool in Melbourne (Carlton?) with 'Liberty Belle' playing on the headphones of my walkman. Over 20 years ago! | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 388 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks Andrew. What a picture, he's got the body for it. I believe it did happen. The shock factor was a result of the label people hanging out with the band for a week or so before the gig & no mention of stage costumes. All of a sudden the band they were courting weren't quite as marketable as they'd hoped. If it was mentioned beforehand it might not have been such a problem, maybe there was a betrayal of trust from the labels point of view. | ||
| Little Keith Member Username: Manosludge Post Number: 729 Registered: 03-2006 |
He looks in that picture like some old dowager from a Hitchcock movie...thanks for posting that Andrew... | ||
| david nichols Member Username: David Post Number: 89 Registered: 09-2004 |
How will we ever know if the GoBs would have been huge in America, RF in a dress or not. It seems unlikely to me. It's a good story that RF & GMcL conspired to ruin their chances; and after all they conspired to dissolve the band itself a short time after. The US video for Streets of Your Town, which minimises the weird nature of the band massively in favour of a down-home country rock image, might hold some clues. RF apparently had his own dress, specially made, didn't borrow women's dresses. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 129 Registered: 05-2005 |
You know if I had the wherewithall to wear a dress as part of being an entertainer, I would want custom dresses too. Wouldn't you? I mean you want to accentuate your good physical attributes at deflect attention from your problem areas. No horizontal stripes either! | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 731 Registered: 05-2005 |
Maternity dress for me then! Pass the lipstick lovey! | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 546 Registered: 03-2005 |
Welcome back David. I haven't seen that video. Odd idea, presenting the GoBees as country rock. I don't think the Go Betweens would have ever been big in the U.S.. They were bookish, subtle and nuanced. Those are three adjectives that don't apply to the U.S. music-buying public. Matthias, in Robert's case back then he'd have wanted to avoid vertical stripes. | ||
| Matthias Treml Member Username: Matthias Post Number: 133 Registered: 05-2005 |
Let us bookish, subtle, nuancing people unite to overthrow the music biz! LMAO about the stripes Randy. | ||
| Kurt Stephan Member Username: Slothbert Post Number: 583 Registered: 04-2005 |
Thing is, other bookish (and nerdish) types have done pretty well in the U.S. I agree the GoBs would never have big here, but they ought to be able to make the top 200 on the album charts. I mean, if Modest Mouse can have a top 20 album with what to me is a less accessible sound and image, why not the GoBs in the top 200? Oh, wait, I forgot. Collectively, this country has no taste. Dylan's album at #1 is the exception that proves the rule. | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2004 |
Randy, I believe the video you're after is on youtube.com | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 393 Registered: 08-2004 |
They could've been the new Tears For Fears (with a subtle edge). Welcome back David. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 179 Registered: 02-2005 |
The 'frock fallout' story sounds a bit far-fetched to me. But I remember Peter Buck once saying something to the effect that, "it's amazing how far you can go in this business just showing up to meetings on time." And I was reading a thread on the Red Hot Chili Peppers recently where I posted something about how freindly and professional they were when they played Maxwell's back in the days I worked there. Afterwards I thought to myself how that "professionalism" probably served them very well in their careerism. Alternately, legend has it that Richard Lloyd nodded-out during a pre-release marketing meeting for his Elektra debut 'Alchemy' and "da suits" decided then and there not to invest a single nickle or a drop of sweat into promoting it. So, stranger things have happened. The Industry likes artists who play the game. People who are perceived as being arrogant or petulant or uncooperative can take the wind out of the corporate sails in an instant. It's all ancient history now and it sounds like the US company, Capitol were ready, willing and able to fund a 7th album to the tune of 200K, so it's not as if the G-B's totally shot themselves in the foot. Of course, when they broke-up the label let Robert and Grant go their merry ways... they only-ever released '16LL' on the label. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 556 Registered: 03-2005 |
Reading through this thread I realize that I might have given the impression that I thought David puffed his book with nonsense. I don't think that at all. My sense on this story is that David was given Robert and/or Grant's spin on the incident and he duly reported it accurately. And the story that I suspect of being spin might be totally true, but it just seems to clash with what was happening in the pop music world in 1988. We're not talking about 1963. Guy's observations are suggestive; maybe the GoBees just weren't perceived as having quite the desired enthusiasm. After all, they WERE heading for a breakup. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 742 Registered: 05-2005 |
Good points Guy. People buy people, for better or for worse, we all got problems with the capitalists, but heck! Mind you you can only play the game with the record companies if there's someone who adores you on the label, so many bands have been dropped due to the band's original a&r / contact jumping ship... Re Richard Lloyd I remember hearing bout R lloyd being a miserable so and so, above everything and everyone. Thats why many people choose not to meet their idols I reckon, incase they see the reality and they don't like it. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 557 Registered: 03-2005 |
Donat, thank you so much for directing me to youtube!! Dunno why I didn't think of trawling through it before. I love the "Head Full of Steam" video. In fact, it finally got me to pay attention to the song's amusing lyrics and ignore the pat music. It works on every level. Could the bozos at Capital have been unaware of this video I wonder? On the other hand, I wasn't even able to sit and watch the "Right Here" video. It seemed a really sad insult to the song. Robert's hair is especially enviable in the "Streets" video. Spence, you are unquestionably right. I wonder what Mark E. Smith is like in person. After all, "bring on the obligatory niggers" could be a really edgy clever comment on PC posturing (which is what I choose to take it as) or it could be something else . . . . I'm afraid to find out. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 180 Registered: 02-2005 |
I've never met or talked with Mark E. Smith, but on a couple of occasions (back when I was "on the scene") I was in a room with him hanging out with a group of people... I knew the guy who was their American tour manager at the time. Lemme tell you, there were some very strident folks in their circle. I think Mark can be alternately engaging or psychotic, depending on his amphetamine intake. I would seriously doubt if he's a raw racist at heart, although he clearly takes pleasure in winding people up. |