| Author | Message | ||
     jeff |
David, I got the new edition of your new book, and I have some questions, the main one being: So, is Grant a junkie? So, I've long been aware of his (and the rest of the band) toying with heroin in the early 80s when they shared a flat with the Birthday Party (as detailed in both editions). But what's aroused my curiosity is that in the new edition of your book (on page 220), you bring up a rumour about Grant introducing Steve Kilbey to heroin during the Jack Frost sessions. Given the amount of time that had passed between the B-day Party days and Jack Frost, this rumour would suggest to me that perhaps Grant had a long-running flirtation, or addiction, with the stuff. Also, when you say that "certainly it was something McLennan was willing to 'play' with," are you saying McLennan was willing to "play" with the apparent rumours and public perception of his alleged heroin use, or are you saying that McLennan was willing to simply "play" with heroin? I know, in the grand scheme of things these are petty (and probably libelous and intrusive) questions, but Grant is the last person I'd ever suspect to be hooked on the needle. Nick Cave, sure, but Grant McLennan? I'm sure I'll have more questions about your book, but I just wanted to get the ball rolling with some discussion of it. I do really love the new edition, I don't know if you changed much of the original text, but it all seems a bit cleaner. And of course, the updated stuff is quite fascinating (I never knew what a near disaster the Rachel Worth tour turned out to be!!!). Jeff | ||
| Mark |
Perhaps that might have been better handled off-line, Jeff. I mean, wtf ..haven't we all? I've done it and I'm not a junkie. Actually if you want to know the truth about it, cigarettes are so much more difficult to give up than H and coffee is yet more difficult again. | ||
| jeff |
Well, you're probably right, but I assumed that if Nichols wrote about it in his book, it was fair game for discussion. Was I wrong in assuming that? Maybe it was a stupid question, and ultimately it doesn't matter at all, but David *does* go into pretty vivid detail about the whole Birthday Party heroin stuff, so obviously he must've felt it was interesting enough, and fair game, for broadcasting it publically via his book. I think it brings up the whole concept of how we perceive artists, the image they project, as well as what drives them or inspires them. Drugs can often play a pivotal role in an artist's work, and by asking this, I'm merely trying to shed some light what fueled Grant, seeing if it had any impact on his muse. I wasn't trying to pass judgment on Grant or anyone who experimented with the drug. (Obviously it's not a drug to be taken lightly, I mean, Lemme from Motorhead never touched the horse). However, if everyone else feels this should've been asked off-line -whoever moderates this board, feel free to remove it! | ||
| david nichols |
I don't think Grant is a junkie per se. It was a difficult thing to deal with in the book and I think you've recognised my anxiety over it. One of the problems I had in arriving at anything that seemed to me like the truth was that whether G McL is a junkie or not a lot of people around him either are or were junkies, and you know what junkies/ex-junkies are like - they only ever want to talk about heroin. When I said that heroin was something G liked to 'play' with I meant he liked to play with it as a concept, not that he liked to use it like a toy. The 'Grant introduced Kilbey to heroin' story has had a lot of mileage but let's face it, it wouldn't have been like Grant saying 'Hey Steve there's this drug on the scene...' (I'm reminded of the official Carpenters movie - 'Pills, mom?' 'Relax honey, they're just quaaludes'). Anyway, I am sure that's untrue. I was more interested in the rumours - you know, why they've had such currency - than the truth. I could ramble on about this for a long time. Thanks for your kind words on the book. If I think of anything more intelligent than the above to add I will do so later on. | ||
| Mark |
Ah well, we all like a little controversy. It gives us something to talk about. No, Grant is not a 'Junkie': Junkies are marked by deep insecurities that usually prevents them from overcoming their inhibitions. An hallucinatory drug becomes the conduit of their escape from the real world existence. Grant has had a performing career spanning 25 years and as a performing artist, he has been constantly subject to public scrutiny. If Grant was a Junkie, it wouldn't be a secret and we couldn't be having this conversation about him. He would never have made it through as a member of the Go-Betweens and probably wouldn't have made it through life either. Using a drug once, or even on multiple occasions over a long period of time does not make him a junkie. _IF_ true, it makes him a drug user. So how many musicians do we know that use drugs and how many people here have tried them? If there is an association between 'Hammer' and the GB's, then that could hardly have been surprising. The song 'Hammer the Hammer' is commonly thought to be about Heroin use although I doubt that they ever confirmed this. | ||
| ƒredrik |
Well, as long as he only liked to play with it - as a concept. And comparing H to cigarettes - spot on. We all do a bit of both. ƒ | ||
| jeff |
Thanks David, your response pretty much confirms what I had guessed. "Grant has had a performing career spanning 25 years and as a performing artist, he has been constantly subject to public scrutiny. If Grant was a Junkie, it wouldn't be a secret and we couldn't be having this conversation about him. He would never have made it through as a member of the Go-Betweens and probably wouldn't have made it through life either." You're right Mark, it probably wouldn't be a secret, as it was never a secret with Nick Cave or Steve Kilbey. However, I do question your statement about him not making it through as a member of the Go-Betweens - remember Nick Cave made it up to the late 80s before he cleaned up, maintaining a productive and prolific career that entire period of time. Miles Davis made it through several decades of productive music making while doing buttloads of smack. And I suppose further evidence of Grant's herion fascination being nothing more than a flirtation could be found in the fact that he never wrote about it. "Hammer the Hammer" aside (I have my doubts about that one), I can't think of any of Grant's lyrics that deal with the subject. And as David said, junkies tend to talk about junk incessantly, and junkie musicians tend to make constant and obvious references to it in their work. Take Nick Cave again: you could probably compile three discs worth of Birthday Party songs that touch on his pre-occupation with smack. And then there's the Church's "Gold Afternoon Fix," etc... So, in my previous posting when I was putting this in the context of Grant's inspiration or muse, I had in mind the fact that Grant's songwriting didn't seem to be pre-occupied with it. I suppose this all goes back to my statement about the public's perception of an artist. Most people tend to view the Go-Betweens as rather "polite" and "adult", and would therefore probably find it ironic if any of the Go-Betweens did happen to be heroin addicts. Basically, Grant McLennan's image differs wildly from Nick Cave, Keith Richards, or even Steve Kilbey. That Grant likes to play with the rumours of his flirtation with heroin probably has to do with the fact that he's aware on some level that a lot of people perceive him and his work as "polite" and "adult", and he probably enjoys the hip, street cred that being in any way associated with heroin would give him, (to counter or convolude the whole "politeness" thing). | ||
| Seagull |
This disucssion of Grants private life prompts me to comment on the book, which I have not read (yet) To me, the Go-Betweens have always maintained a sense of mystery and enigma. The lyrics rely on creating impressions and atmospheres rather than baldly stating a point. In interviews they give little away (and frequently lie I believe). I think it is partly this intrigue that maintains my obsession with the band. In some ways I would love to read the book but it terrifies me that knowing too much about the individuals may destroy the love I have for their art. Does anyone else face this dilemna? | ||
| Mark |
Seagull: I know I do and it is a dilemma. The mystery IS the magic that alows each of us to stylize our own heros. Jeff: Stranger things have happened, but they are rare. A junkie becomes detached from reality and can't cope with even simple things, like eating. I think you'll agree that Grant's lyrics over the years exhibit an extraordinary ability to deal with difficult subject matter: "It is neither fair nor reasonable to expect sadness to confine itself to its causes" ..I could fill pages. At the time of the release of "Hammer the Hammer", there certainly was a lot of discussion about the meaning of the song's lyrics. Heroin use was a commonly held conclusion but it may not have been true. Could you (or someone) quote the relevent lyrics for me. I don't have the recording. I am reminded of the (more famous) lyrics of Peter, Paul and Mary's 'Hammer song'. "If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning, I'd hammer in the evening, all over this land; I'd hammer out danger, I'd hammer out warning," ..and I'm wondering if Grant's lyrics were somehow a reference to this classic. i.e. meaning to do H morning and night. | ||
| jeff |
As for the hammer the hammer lyrics, i suppose it would be interesting to find out when grant's first brush with smack was, exactly. I was under the assumption it wasn't until they shared a flat with the Birthday Party in London (in '82, maybe early '83), which is definitely after Hammer the Hammer. But I only assumed that because that's the first time David brings it up, which of course doesn't really mean anything. It could've been when they were recording Lullaby with Tony Cohen (an avid drug user at the time, reportedly). But I don't know if they'd have been exposed to it much earlier than that. The reason for that is because David portrays both Robert and Grant as being very naive (though still ambitious), sexually inexperienced, youthful, innocent suburban kids up until around the time they met Lindy, so I assumed that naive youthfulness extended into the realm of drugs as well. But who knows - again, I'm just making assumptions based on what I've gleaned from David's book. If someone could post the lyrics to Hammer the Hammer, that would be helpful. I have the song, but am too lazy to transcribe lyrics, some of which I'm sure I wouldn't be able to accurately make out anyhow. As for unveiling the mystery of the Go-Betweens (or any band, for that matter), I found it alternately distressing and exciting to read about what they were really like. You come to them knowing only their songs, the music, lyrics, etc... and everyone makes assumptions about what the people in the group are like based on that. They may be smiling on the cover of Liberty Belle, giving the impression of a happy, functional family, but when you peel back the layers, you learn that some heavy drama was occurring during that time, which ultimately makes them more complex and more human than initial assumptions might leave you to believe. Then when you can put their real lives in the context of the lyrics/music, it makes for some pretty interesting interpretations. And finally, Mark, as I was saying in my last post, I do agree that evidence would seem to show that Grant was not a junkie, mainly because, as you and I have both pointed out, he usually sang about things far deeper and more complex than smack. | ||
| admin (Admin) |
-> Rest of discussion moved to the lyrics discussion group, under "Hammer The Hammer". | ||
| Cassiel |
What about the lost Grant Mc song, the hymnal 'Autum drizzle on eucalpytus.' If I remember rightly, it goes. 'Stuck the needle in my vein Shot up, looked out at the rain Felt brilliant and then nodded off Ooh, ooh, da dah' Sheer bloody poetry | ||
| lindy morrison |
J |