| Author | Message | ||
     Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Has anyone else seen these two wonderful movies? They both recently opened in Sydney, though they were probably out in the US months ago. Napolean Dynamite is film of the year for me, every performance in it was just spot on. Garden State was very good too, though it might be more interesting to see what the writer/director/star guy does next. I recommend both films if you have not seen them yet. Oh, by the way, my second favourite film of the year is Sommersault (which, most unusually for an Australian film is set in the snow in Jindabyne - and it captured the mood and feeling of that town perfectly); and my third faveourite (that I can think of right now anyway) is Shawn Of The Dead (hilarious British zombie romantic comedy - zom-rom-com - in case it has not opened in your neck of the woods yet). I know this is all very self-indulgent, but it's Christmas, the time for self-indulgence! (And end of year lists, but I'm not checking this one twice). | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 3 Registered: 08-2004 |
If I recall correctly 'Napolean Dynamite' was a pseudonym Elvis Costello used circa the 'Blood and Chocolates' album, which is a fantastic record, by the way. I live in a small town in Italy, so there won't be any chance of seeing the movies you mention, Padraig. I'm curious about the name though. Is there any connection with Mr Costello? | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 4 Registered: 08-2004 |
It appears there is no connection. I found the following on the Internet Movie Data base regarding the film: 'The name "Napoleon Dynamite" is a pseudonym used by Elvis Costello for his 1986 album, "Blood and Chocolate". Executive producer Jeremy Coon has stated that the similarity is a coincidence and that the producers were unaware of Costello's usage of the name until the film was in production.' It's a great Costello record, though, if anybody is looking for recommendations on such things... | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
"Garden State" is a bit overrated, honestly. The scene with those three characters having their epiphany in the rain, with white-boy music on the soundtrack, is the most cringeworthy moment in film all year. The last-minute reconciliation b/w Braff and the great Ian Holm seemed gratuitous too. However, Peter Sarsgard is, as ever, quietly stunning; how does he do it? That baby-powder voice, slight features. He looks at Braff and his inanities and suddenly you're at a higher (and simpler) level of truth than the other characters are able to support. | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I just looked up Peter Sarsgaard on the Internet Movie Data base because it was annoying me trying to figure out where I had seen him before. Turns out I've seen him in Shattered Glass and Dead Man Walking. I've also now discovered that he has the same birthday as me! I must listen to Blood and Chocolate again. It is a great album. I had forgotten about his use of the name Napoleon Dynamite then. It seems too much of a coincidence for there to be no connection. I'm sure it was subconscious though. The film has diddly to do with Elvis. His new album Delivery Man is great too by the way. Alfred, what's wrong with "white-boy music"? What kind of music do you think The Go-Betweens make? I thought the soundtrack to Garden State was great. It's refreshing to hear a soundtrack that is not full of the same vastly overplayed 60s songs as every other soundtrack. It's very boring when people dismiss anything not made by black people as "white-boy music". (And before you make any stupid assumptions, a lot of my favourite music is by soul artists - though not the pop crap that passes for soul these days). | ||
| button down Member Username: Buttondown Post Number: 3 Registered: 09-2004 |
Elvis was fantastic on Tuesday | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I use the phrase when I wanna denigrate our tendency to project our angst onto guys with guitars, most of whom are white and wouldn't know funk if it bit them. When the world is ending, I prefer to dance - just a preference; I don't expect anyone to agree. It actually WOULD bother me if I listened to a soundtrack's worth of Go-Betweens songs and no hip-hop, Otis Redding, or Prince or something. Blood and Chocolate is fantastic, ain't it? Quite underrated, even if the second half is crap. "Home is Anywhere You Hang Your Head" always reduces me to tears. | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
Hmmm. White boy music. Yeah, I'm afraid I love white boy music. Dance music is okay, but it seldom has emotional content. Indeed, the point of dancing is to escape emotion. How much dance music is listenable by the time it's ten years old? Hip hop music, like punk, seems to be all about a pose--no authentic emotional content at all, or authentic content of a very unevolved sort. Now, old school soul can be really wonderful but, gee, substantively it's not very far from country music. So I wonder if this white boy music concept is a red herring? | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I hope no one was too insulted by my "white boy music" canard. Obviously I wouldn't post on this board as often as I do if I didn't believe in the Go-Be's, as well as Aztec Camera, the Smiths - and, yes, the Shins. But I can't listen to them exclusively. There's so much great music in all genres that to listen to guitar bands all day seems churlish, even conservative. Hm. A lot of bad hip-hop (like, as you point out, punk) postures instead of provoking emotion; but there's so much good hip-hop - both underground and mainstream - that it's impossible to dismiss the genre. In fact, I'm not sure I want to reignite the old "rockism" debate, and not on this board. Randy, Madonna's "Into the Groove" and Justin Timberlake's "Rock Your Body" inspires the same sort of ecstatic release that "Bye Bye Pride" or "Man O' Sand to Girl O'Sea" does. Good music is good music. I simply don't believe you think hip hop has "no authentic emotional content." That's what conservative critics were saying in the days of Grandmaster Flash and Africa Bambaata. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I should also add that if we dismiss dance music as unemotional, then we must dismiss the greatest punk-disco band of them all, New Order. | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Alfred, I firmly believe that both Madonna and Justin Timberlake should be prosecuted under the Geneva Convention for crimes against humanity... I do like Into The Groove and Holiday by Madonna (I guess two songs out of 400 or so ain't bad), but Justin Timberlake has no redeeming qualities whatsoever and ought to be working stacking shelves in Wal Mart... Or being mistreated by Private Lindy Englund at Abu Ghraib or Gitmo. I love some hip-hop though and have to agree with Alfred that I'm very surprised Randy says it has "no authentic emotional content at all". Yes it does! Listen to Public Enemy's Fight The Power for a start. Hip-hop isn't all about "bitches, hos, bling-bling, crack, benjamins and disses". Though, conversely, some of the best hip-hop is! I can't believe that we are having a serious discussion about hip-hop and its society on a white-bread, white-boy music site! Wouldn't you love to hear a Go-Betweens song referencing hos and bling-bling? It would have to be a Robert song. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
So "Cry Me A River" and "Rock Your Body" leave you cold, eh? Sniff. You're denying yourself one of life's greatest pleasures, Padraig. Thanks for watching my back, by the way. As I originally wrote, I can't believe that in 2004 we're still denying the legitimacy of hip-hop as both a vehicle for rage AND hedonism (the latter doesn't bother me in the slightest). | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
Actually I don't deny hip hop its potential value. Some of the sonic experiments behind the raps are quite impressive. And, yes, I forgot about "Fight the Power" which I actually have in my collection. It's superb. But, being American, I do see an awful lot of deeply self defeating behavior from young kids which, combined with our continuing cultural racial bias, is leading these kids to a sticky end. And it seems to have been largely influenced by hip hop artists, many of whom I suspect are laughing all the way to the bank. I'm afraid I agree with Padraig about McDonna and Justin Timberlake. But, hey, maybe it's just generational. Now and then, I can still get a big kick out of Dave Dee, Dozy, Beaky, Mick & Tich and god knows nobody can claim their music had any emotional content. | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I'm not that old Randy! (I'm 37). Madonna emerged a few years after I first started listening to music and I hated her schtick right from the start. I never saw any value, or soul, in it and I still don't. Not that a lack of soul is always necessarily a bad thing - for instance, I loved the utterly soulless Surfers Paradise in Queensland when I was there, and utterly hated the 'funky, soulful, everybody loves each other maaan' Byron Bay. If I were New South Wales Premier Bob Carr I would raze the hippy cesspit that is Byron to the ground and then sell it to Queensland so they could use it as a car park for Surfers. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
Padraig, you're righ that the seedier elements of hip-hop culture are a pernicious influence on the young, but the degree of influence is a question I'll cede to sociologists. There's great hip-hop, little of which has a ho or bitch or gat in sight: try De La Soul, Common, Mos Def, Tribe Called Qwest, Roxanne Shante. | ||
| Rob Unregistered guest |
Padraig, you are dead right about Byron and Surfers Paradise. At some point in the 90s the best of Byron's people and spirit disappeared, just as the concrete canyons of Surfers started to be an interesting place to be (although still ugly to look at I'd say). Just shows you soul can't be taken for granted. Alfred's points about hip hop have been interesting reading for me. Recently I've been looking at Dave McComb's (that's the late David McComb of the Triffids) compliation cassette sleeves, as posted on the Triffids website run by Graham Lee (www.wminc.com.au and follow your nose). Dave was a great hip hop fan, the Geto Boys, NWA, Tupac but particularly Snoop Dogg. It's fascinating how he mixes hiphop in with what you would consider the more classic Triffids influences (Cohen, Velvets, Stones). As I stopped listening to the Triffids or Dave himself in about 1988 I had missed this development. In some of his diaries etc, available on the site, he discusses hip hop and its significance for him. I asked Graham a question about hip hop/rap and its influence on David... he replied with a comment about Dave's preference for "music in its purest (or most extreme) form". For myself I was a big fan of Public Enemy, the Jungle Brothers, Ice-T and the late 80s rap crowd... but I abandoned Ice after he moved to metal on Cop Killer. After that I took my eye off the ball with hiphop... and have only recently started listening again, especially Nas and OutKast. Radio 1Extra in the UK has been a great source for me. But to call either of those two latter musicians "hiphop artists" is pretty limiting in fact. | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Alfred, it was Randy who questioned hip-hop's influence on the young, though I probably would too. I like De La Soul (like most hip-hop bands they were rubbish live though), I love a lot of A Tribe Called Qwest's stuff and of the more recent hip-hoppers I OutKast and Danger Mouse's Grey Album (which brilliantly mashes Jay-Z's Black Album and The Beeatles White Album). All of those bands have a major 'pop' element to their music though and I'm sure that hip-hop purists would expose me for the dilettante I am! | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I meant to say "Randy," Padraig. My mistake. I'm sorry. By the way, all those albums you listed are brilliant. | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
Can i just mention here that EPMD's 'Strictly Business' is one of the greatest singles of all time; and mention too Eric B and Rakim. However, these are both, ahem, 'old skool' hip-hop bands and show me to be stuck in the late 1980s. But then so does my love of the Go-Betweens... Last night on Film 2004 I saw a clip from Garden State; it was teeth-clenchingly cringy. The main guy (Braff?) is talking to Natalie Portman, playing a kooky sort of Jewish girl straight from central casting. She is listening to her Ipod or something. he asks what it is and she says it's the Shins (I bought their last album; I strongly recommend you don't). She tells him to listen to it, saying the song will alter his life. He puts the headphones on and, yes, you guessed it... Actually, I started screaming and turned over there and then. The whole thing seemed monumentally self-indulgent and put me right off the movie. All too twee and wetter than a seal's washbag. Frankly the scene would have worked far better had it been something truly odd - Napalm Death, or banging drum and bass. Then Portman's character would have seemed authentically 'weird', rather than the kooky indie girl we all liked when we were 17 but have since moved on from when we got out of bedrooms and started lives. But perhaps the movie as a whole isn't that cloying. But watching that scene made me understand if not agree with the 'white-boy' music comment. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 5 Registered: 08-2004 |
I'm harping on about Elvis C again, but it has some relevance to this thread. I was very disappointed by his Attractions 'comeback' album of 2002: "When I was Cruel". It sounded like EC and the Attractions by numbers. It had none of the passion or energy of something like Blood and Chocolates. In particular, the 'trip hop' tracks were weak and unconvincing. (The 'trip-hop' phenomenon was pretty much finished by then, wasn't it). It all sounded like a man grasping for relevance. The album got wonderful reviews though. Am I the only crank out there regarding this record?  I haven't bought his latest recording as a result. On the subject of the demise of trip hop, I think, 'Out Of Season', the solo album from Beth Gibbons (ex-singer with Portishead) in collaboration with Rustin' Man (ex-Talk Talk) is one of the most sublime records of recent years. I get a similar feeling from this record as I do from some of my favourite Billie Holiday records. Brooding, Haunting, sad stuff - absolutely wonderful to listen to late at night. We don't get many recommendations here for female artists in Go-Betweens land, do we? Cichli | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I enjoyed "When I Was Cruel" very much. The trip-hop experiments you cite, like the title track, were tweaked - sonically and lyrically - so that it sounded more threatening than anything Tricky has coughed up lately. Too many lyrics, of course, but what else is new. Overall though it reminded me of a scene from one of David Lynch's films. The by-the-numbers songs are "Tear Off Your Own Head" and "My Blue Window." Other stuff, like the fabulous "45" and "Dust" (terrific guitar) , are by some measure his best performances in years. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 6 Registered: 08-2004 |
Nope, I'm afraid I'm not convinced, Alfred. I'm irritated more than threatened when I listen to that record. You and I also disagree about 'Blood and Chocolate'! After you stated that the second side of 'Blood and Chocolates' was crap, I had a 'critical' listen again last night and I have to disagree. 'Poor Napoleon' (bringing us right back to the start of the thread) is absolute filler, I agree. But the second side is still very strong. It seems to me that the final song on the first side, 'I want you', is such an engrossing ballad, it's impossible for any song on the second side to maintain your attention. It's strange to be talking about sides again. Several years ago, I replaced my worn out vinyl copy of 'Blood and Chocolates' with the expanded CD version. I realise that I still think of it having two sides though! By the way, I saw the 'Blood and Chocolates' tour when it came to Dublin in the 80's, along with the spinning song wheel where the setlist was decided at random and the Go-go cage for brave members of the audience. It was a fantasticly entertaining show. Elvis encored with a spitting, vicious, almost demented acoustic version of 'I want you'. He was hitting the strings of his guitar so hard he broke a string. Watching him twist his body on stage while hoarsely whispering this tale of violent obsession was a fascinating but uncomfortable experience for me. It's not really fair to compare them but for me, 'Spooky girlfriend' and 'When I was cruel no 2' just aren't in the same league. Cichli | ||
| gareth Unregistered guest |
Cichli, Glad you mentioned thinking of sides when describing records. I still do and am showing no sign of letting up. Haven't bough vinyl in years but cd's still have a side A and B in my eyes. Only yesterday i described the U2 album to friend as a 'pretty good side A, fairly poor side B'. Anyone else think like this? Also, what do people make of the Pavement reissues? Any fans here? I hear a Robert influence in some of their stuff. They've done a good job with the 'Crooked Rain, Crooked Rain' reissue i think. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
I also think in sides, Gareth. My younger friends look at me strangely when I describe "poor first, great second half" all the time. I'm not a fan of extra discs. Although the Pavement reissues are handsome, and some of the B-sides wonderful (I'm particularly taken by "Raft" and "Strings of Nashville"), the Gary Young-propelled (or should I say, "paddled"?) versionis of "Crooked Rain" songs is not really necessary. I've been a Pavement fan since 1993, but I"m not THAT much of a completist. Cichli: I wish I'd seen the "Blood & Chocolate" tour (I was 11 at the time...); the photos included in the Rykodisc reissue made it seem like the most amazing spectacle (Tom Waits! The Bangles! A cover of Prince's "Pop Life"!!). As for the album, I still hold that it slows down after "Battered Old Bird." No, "When I Was Cruel #2" and "Spooky Girlfriend" don't compare to "I Want You," but that's a bit unfair, no? Dylan's "Love & Theft" doesn't compare to "Blonde & Blonde" but it's a fantastic album, and one of his very best. I hope my last point doesn't provoke another argument, heh heh. | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 25 Registered: 09-2004 |
No arguement here, Alfred. "Love & Theft" is a brilliant album, though nothing compares to "Blonde on Blonde". | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Love & Theft is no Blonde On Blonde. But it is also nowhere near as good as Oh Mercy, which I think is the shining beacon, the standard bearer of post-mid-70s Dylan. I think Time Out Of Mind is also a far better album than Love & Theft. I love Eric B. & Rakim. Rakim's comback album a few years ago was a joy also. I misheard the chorus of the single though and for ages thought it was about an Irish-American boxer: I heard "Guess who's back? Rocky Molloy". But what was really being sung was "Guess who's back? Rakim Allah". I used to play it on the radio in amongst the likes of Yo La Tengo, Teenage Fanclub, The Go-Betweens etc, and saw nothing wrong with doing so. It's all good. Cichli, give the new Elvis a go. It's immensely better than When I Was Cruel, which really was overrated. Cassiel, Garden State is really not like how you imagine it to be. That doesn't mean you would not hate it anyway though. I really liked it, but can easily see how people would dislike it. Even Margaret Pomeranz, Australia's grand dame of film reviewing, said - while praising it - that Braff (or whatever his name is) lacked charisma. But that was the whole point of how he played the character. His spirit had been broken and was mended by a kooky, indie-listening teenager. Her character was not Jewish, by the way. Braff's was though. I think to a large extent he was playing himself - Jewish guy from Jersey with psychiatrist parents who is trying to make it as an actor in LA. The more I think about it, the more I think he owes a lot to Woody Allen, though Garden State is better than any film Woody has made since Manhattan Murder Mystery. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 7 Registered: 08-2004 |
Regarding Blonde on Blonde, yes, its a fantastic record. I just wish it didn't start with 'Rainy Day Women Nos 12 & 35'. That song is like a joke that has been told once too often (I liked it the first time I heard it). Now, I always skip ahead to 'Pledging my time'. I would argue that 'Blood on the Tracks' is as good, despite the fact that it also contains 'Lily, Rosemary and the Jack of Hearts', another Dylan song I can't abide. By the way, What do people think of the Go-Bees cover of 'You’re A Big Girl Now'? I haven't heard it yet: I'm getting the 3 reissues 'for Christmas'. Was it seriously considered for inclusion on the 16 Lover's lane album when it was recorded? I would suggest, though, that if you are going to choose a recent Dylan record to compare to these classics, the one to go for is 'Time out of Mind' from 1997 rather than 'Love and Theft'. I think 'Time out of Mind' is as good as 'Blonde and Blonde' and 'Blood on the Tracks'. Lyrically I find it fascinating to compare these 3 records. Blonde on Blonde is so clearly a young man's record: romantic, playful and sometimes very funny (Stuck inside a mobile.. etc). I see 'Blood on the Tracks' as Dylan's mid-thirties crisis album: full of regrets and songs of love that could have been, still somewhat optimistic. Time out of Mind, however, has the voice (literally) of a much older, disillusioned man, who goes on just because he has got into the habit of living. It's a bleak record in may ways, but the voice seems much more 'true' than on other Dylan records. Sorry if I've offended anyone with my thumbnail sketch of their favourite album. Cichli | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Cichli, we were thinking along the same lines, sort of. You do know that that line is "Stuck inside of Mobile", rather than "Stuck inside a mobile"? Apologies if you already know this, as I'm sure you probably do, but it is a reference to the town of Mobile, Tennessee. Hence the follow up line of "With the Memphis blues again". | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 8 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Pádraig, Yes, I knew the correct title and the reference but, like your earlier story, I misheard the song when I first bought the album as a teenager. I have never been able to sing "Stuck inside of Mobile"! Actually, I still have the remnants of many embarrassing mishearings in my head! Is there a good word for that? You know, where you construct a whole new meaning for a song simply by mishearing the lyrics? | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I'm listening to The Go-Betweens version of You're A Big Girl Now for the first time as I write this. It's Robert singing it, which makes sense, though I had expected it to be Grant for some reason. Nice violin line from Amanda. I'm sure they did not intend it for the album. It's not brilliantly recorded. I like it a lot on first listen though and suspect I may come to love it. Oh, there's clapping at the end. Must be a radio session or something. A New York band called Mary Lee's Corvette covered the entire Blood On The Tracks album. All I have of it is their version of You're A Big Girl Now, which is really great. I saw them, purely by chance, in a tiny bar in Austin, Texas, during the South By South West festival in March 2001 and they were superb. There was no stage, so there were playing on the same level as the audience of about 40 people. I was standing about a metre from the guitarist. | ||
| Padraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Just listned to the single version of Love Goes On! on the extras disc. What is with those pounding drums? How did they think that would make it a hit? The big-drum-Steve-Lillywhite-sound had had its day by 1988. It's not bad, just very different. Rock And Roll Friend has just come on and is sending shivers down my spine. One of the greatest ever Go-Betweens songs. As for referring to album sides ... I only do if it something that I have on vinyl or cassette. The album I do so most consistently about is Therapy's Troublegum album from 1993. I always think of it as an awesome pop-punk-metal side one and a fairly turgid side two, including a dreadfully unnecessary cover of Joy Division's Isolation. I'll probably be pilloried for even liking one side of a Therapy album though. They were great live in Dalymount Park at Sunstroke that summer too! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
By the way Cichli, thanks for putting the fada into my name. I will do it too in future, as I should always have done (I'm normally an absolute stickler for that too). | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Just listening to Running The Risk Of Losing You from the extras disc now. Love the way Robert introduces a mini violin solo by saying "Amanda". | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 9 Registered: 08-2004 |
Actually, I had a boss called Pádraig who was fastidious about his fadas and I've learned to be the same ! But do you think he could once spell 'Cichli'! No! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I assumed Cichli Suite was a pseudonym (a play on sickly sweet?). I guess it is Italian. Are you Irish-Italian? | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 10 Registered: 08-2004 |
Thanks for the tasters of the extra disc on the re-releases, Pádraig. I feel like opening my Christmas presents a bit earlier this year, but Mrs Suite wouldn't be very happy. Cichli | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 11 Registered: 08-2004 |
Ah now that would be telling! I am Irish but I live in Northern Italy. Mrs Suite is from Brisbane. (And if I told you my real name she'd kill me ) As for the moniker, I'm a big fan of early Autechre. I don't like the more recent stuff. It may seem a bit incongrous mixing Autechre and the Go-Betweens but we're used to varied mix of stuff here in the Suite household (Contemporary Italian pop is the exception). Cichli | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
A google search on your name has revealed an Autechre album called Cichli Suite, with a note that the band say it is pronounced Sickly Sweet. So I was on the right track. We could have a game of CSI Go-Betweens. What are lemon kit-kats like? I read somewhere that they are the latest flavour in the UK. We don't have them in Australia, but I love the mint ones. In Ireland they used to bring out the mint ones in time for St Patrick's day every year because it comes in a green wrapper. Good to see our national saint, the man who saved us from snakes, remembered with a fine bar of choclate. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 12 Registered: 08-2004 |
ps: I did have a boss called Pádraig who was finicky about his fadas. The rest of the story was embroidered, however! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
So I was googling while you were answering. Good job you were being honest or I would have exposed you in the cruellest fashion! | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 13 Registered: 08-2004 |
I'm sorry, Pádraig, I've never heard of lemon kitkats. Do we have them in italy? Mrs Suite would definitely know. I won't wake her to ask, however. I'll find out tomorrow and let you know. For this evening at least, Ciao, Cichli | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 26 Registered: 09-2004 |
I'm a bit late in on this but I want to put in my further two cents (does that make four?) about Dylan as I'm right in the middle of my bi-annual phase/obsession. "Time Out of Mind" is great but uneven and too long. Yes, I realise "Blonde on Blonde" is about the same length but then I naturally divide it up into four sides. "Love and Theft" is so vibrant; the other side of the coin to TOOM (though lyrically just as world weary). If I want to hear a great live sounding band record with some of his most playful lyrics then this is the one I put on. Actually, I'd say it's his party album. Padraig, there's no doubt "Oh Mercy" is his best eighties album but "Infidels" would easily have taken the cake if "Blind Willie McTell" and "Foot of Pride" were substituted in place of "Neighbourhood Bully" and "Union Sundown". I would like to sing the praises of "Street Legal"* which sat in my CD collection for a few years, virtually unplayed, until a revelatory experience a couple of months ago. Dylan goes all Elvis (Vegas period) and enlists backup singers and a cracking big-band and does a very lush record that signaled his oncoming Christian conversion that would fully blossom on "Slow Train Coming" (another fantastic record but maybe a bit too fire and brimstone for my secular tastes). Not a "classic", but individual and momentarily fantastic in the way that "Tallulah" is (both are lush and more of their time in terms of production too...and both have striking covers!) *Note: apparently the original album was ruined in the mix. Check out the 1999 remix which is now the standard Columbia/Legacy CD (a rare case for a remix actually improving an album). | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
Right on, Peter. I never understood the enthusiasm for "Time Out of Mind." The lyrics were ominously generalized, and Lanois' production was largely unsympathetic (a fog, instead of "Oh Mercy"'s gauze). Gimme "Love & Theft" anyday. I agree also with your take on "Infidels," an album that might have been a real classic had its fool of a creator included "Foot of Pride" and "Blind Willie McTell". I'll pass on "Street Legal," though, which I heard for the first time a few weeks ago. "Senor" and "Baby Stop Crying" might be underrated songs; I don't know. The album reeks of excess: arrangements, singing, lyrics - especially lyrics. I mean, any haters who think Dylan is basically a bad poet needs to read the lyrics to "Changing of the Guard" to have his prejudices confirmed... | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
A few notes here. Being 48, I listened to vinyl for a long time before CDs happened. I too still mentally arrange things into sides. I find that suites of five or six songs work very well and are still relevant when sequencing CDs; you just have to make sure that the successive suites coordinate with each other. I've also noticed that I suffer a bit of listener fatigue when an artist generously supplies 15 or 17 songs rather than the old 10 or 12. I assume this is also a legacy of so many years of vinyl. About confusing lyrics, I'm personally opposed to the practice of printing lyrics. It's more interesting and exciting to discover the lyrics gradually over time and, sometimes, the mistaken lyrics you think you hear turn out to be better than the originals. I've harped on this before on this board. I'm taking notes on the Dylan things. Perversely I avoided acquiring ANY Dylan for many years at the same time that I had every Byrds record through 1969 as well as every Gene Clark record and a number of other Dylan-once-removed types like Lou Reed. I finally bought a copy of "Blood on the Tracks" a few years ago which I find to be brilliant. And I recently picked up a copy of "Biograph." I do find the prospect of trawling all of Dylan's work pretty daunting. I haven't listened to Elvis Costello in years. I tend to drop off an artist when I hit a bum album which, for me, was "Spike" with Costello. The same thing happened to me with Nick Cave's "Henry's Dream." I was thrilled when I discovered "No More Shall We Part." Unfortunately, professional artists are forced to keep churning out things to satisfy their obligations when, in fact, they have nothing to say for the moment. Coming all the way round to the Go-Bees, I'd personally still like to see an occasional solo album by Grant and possibly Robert. In my view, not much of Grant's work with the current Go-Bees has reached the stature of the songs on "In Your Bright Ray" and there are some things (the more electric ones) that Robert seemingly will not tolerate. Has this occurred to anyone else here? | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 21 Registered: 08-2004 |
"Blonde on blonde" would have been a lot better if it had been a single album, minus probably 5 songs. I always prefer "Highway 61" as a whole album, a much more complete record, with a beginning, middle and end. However personal favourite Dylan album is "Desire". Emmy Lou Harris, Scarlet Rivera and great playing make it his fullest sounding. Even that could have been better if "Abandoned love" had been included in place of "Joey". As for the Byrds, "Sweetheart of the rodeo" is simply beautiful. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
So no-one knows what lemon kit-kats taste like then? | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 27 Registered: 09-2004 |
Sorry Padraig. I don't think wafer and chocolate are a good mix at all. Lemon and chocolate couldn't be much better I think. Jerry: "Sweetheart" is good and an important record but I find it weak an unrealised coming after "Younger than Yesterday" and "Notorious Byrd Brothers". My personal favourite, however, is the "Untitled" double-LP of 1970 (though I don't really rate the live portion of the album). Anyone else love this record? While on the subject of the Byrds, I recently read a Gram Parsons biography by Australian writer and muso Jason Walker. If you're reading Nichols, the Allen & Unwin edition of your Go-Bs book has nothing on this in the way of typos and bad editing (for someone as bad at spelling and grammar as I am to be saying this obviously means something). Surely Walker must be embarrassed by it. He also takes it upon himself to analyse the lyrics which disrupts the reportage (which is mostly secondhand source anyway). The amount of times he repeats information is ridiculous too. If Gram wasn't such an interesting subject it would have been easily the worst rock biography I've ever read. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I've just started to read Jon Savage's 'England's Dreaming', about the history of punk. Great read so far, but very annoying that all the words that should be spelt with an s are spelt instead with a z (eg realize). I checked to see if I had a US edition of the book, but no, it was printed in the UK. Ridiculous, particularly as it is a reprint and surely someone would have pointed it out between the first and second printing. Also the word affected is used when it should have been effected. I know that it is the journalist (and, to a lesser extent, the pedant) in me that is coming out in my annoyance over this, but really, we should expect better. I also saw a glaring typo in the sleevenotes to The Fall's Fontana years compilation recently. Again very disappointing, especially as the sleevenotes were very well written other than that glaring error. Is the art of editing dead and buried apart from in the newspaper business (and it is appalling there sometimes too)? | ||
| david nichols Member Username: David Post Number: 30 Registered: 09-2004 |
I don't think anyone could deny that grammar, spelling and general literacy has taken a nosedive in many western, English-speaking countries over the last couple of decades. That said, English is a pain in the arse as languages go and though I feel I have mastered it reasonably well I do wonder if I could have used that time doing something more interesting. Someone should do a typo-themed version of Eats Shoots and Leaves. It's easy to say that errors in print should never, ever happen. I am sure it's a situation that's got much worse in recent years, surely because computers have taken so much of the labour out of proofing and thereby have changed the way editors come to a text (eg obviously a computer would never have picked up the inappropriate use of 'affected'). The first version of my GoBs book was edited very badly and I had read and re-read the text so many times that I was in no fit state to pass judgement on it anymore. Obviously the original mistakes were nevertheless mine and mine alone. Thank goodness Verse Chorus Press are such excellent editors and were so diligent in repairing what was there and suggesting important changes - so the present version is pretty much error-free. A top (bottom) ten of the worst written rock books would be a truly grotesque plumbing of the depths, wouldn't it. Savage's book is one of the all-time great rock books, in my opinion, from the fantastic cover onwards. | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
I blame the decline of English language usage on hip hop. Just kidding. I haven't heard "Untitled" in years. I remember really loving a Skip Batton song on there--"Well Come Back Home." I wonder what I'd think of it now. I also remember an exceptionally sappy "Chestnut Mare" from Roger McGuinn--really blush-inducing. "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" is a terrific album, though it should have had all the Parsons lead vocals it was meant to have. For me the chief standouts are the Dylan songs ("You Ain't Goin Nowhere" and "Nothing Was Delivered") and I suppose no one questions the standout status of "Hickory Wind." A few months ago I saw a great documentary film about Gram Parsons. It was created by a German guy, but I can't remember his name. He hadn't found a distributor but BBC had something to do with the funding. It was quite excellent. He interviewed a lot of the folks who were there including family friends, school friends, girlfriends, Chris Hillman, Emmylou Harris, Keith Richards and the loony friend of his who rescued his body and cremated it in the desert. | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 28 Registered: 09-2004 |
That docu played here in Melbourne as part of the film fevistal, but I sadly missed out. I thought Sid Griffin (Mojo writer and muso) was behind it? I hope I didn't sound too damning when I picked on the typos evident in Walker's book. Generally, people who pick up on my bad spelling/grammar/use of the English language make me paranoid. I thought it prudent of McLennan to wish a smack upon poets who disrespect the language (see the 'bonus' interview at the back of the 2003 Go-Bs book). The popularity of Eats Shoots and Leaves is very surprising as it shows that a large number of people do care about the state of English, or rather their own use of it (they don't want to be caught out at a party using an incorrect adjective--God forbid!). To echo the sentiments of Nichols: maybe their time could be better spent doing something more interesting. Such as writing verbose messages in a chat room and contributing to the general decline of modern English. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 9 Registered: 09-2004 |
I haven't seen any mention here of Dylan's Chronicles. I've just finished it and starting again. The writing is so clever, he describes all the environs around him in a specific moment supposedly from memory (but how could he remember the detail) eg the wind in bamboo, dogs yapping, chrome bumpers in moonlight. Detail upon detail about minutae around him in a moment in the past. Descriptions of rooms to the clearest image. Descriptions of old folk singers. His description of New Orleans is breathtaking. And lists about all his creative influences, books, artists, films. Anyone over 50 like me will be gasping at his memories which will remind you of something that you read or heard or saw. Then there is a whole section in the book about working with Daniel Lanois (what album?) he never says, but the description of the tensions between the men is unbearable. The book is scrambled and so is Dylan, he is a weird brilliant guy and the book is fantastic. The best rock book autobio is from Marianne Faithful, I can't find my copy. God did she do the stuff, some of those women like Janis and Nico and even Courtney in her own mad way just threw it all into the wind and didn't care where it fell. By the way I was never a Dylan freak like Rob and Grant, I feel bad about that now I've read the book. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 14 Registered: 08-2004 |
Hi Lindy, 'Chronicles' is another one that's on the Christmas list. Just can't wait to start it. I was reading the sleeve notes for Dylan's Bootleg Series Vol. 1-3 the other night. Lanois is quoted talking about his experience of working with Dylan on the 'Oh Mercy' album. I couldn't help but pick up traces of condescension and frustration in his attitude to their work on that album. The context was his disagreement with Dylan's decision to leave the track 'Series of Dreams' off the record: "I did say that I didn't think certain songs belonged on the record. He took it fine, but he bucked me on a few of those decisions. We did try a few things that didn't make the finish line. That's the least you can do for an artist, show respect for their own ideas. We had four or six songs we recorded and didn't use. One track, "Series of Dreams," was a fantastic, turbulent track that I felt should have been on the record but .. he had the last word." On the ACADIE, the Internet newsletter for Daniel Lanois, there is a discussion on this point where Lanois is quoted as saying he was sad that Dylan had never had a no. 1 single and that he could have had one if a particular song (probably 'Series of Dreams') had been included on 'Oh Mercy': ACADIE Having heard the song on the Bootleg series, I agree with Dylan's decision! Too U2-ish. Lindy, were there any really difficult decisions (that you'd care to share!) about tracks being left off the Go-Betweens records? Cichli | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
I love the Marianne Faithfull book. Reading it is like sitting in on the most intense twelve-step meeting ever. Andrew Oldham has written two volumes of his own autobiography ("Stoned" and "2Stoned") which are fabulously written and lay out the foundation for 60s London very nicely. They are very good reads. Nothing about his Immediate Records adventure, though. | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
I won't answer for Lindy, but speaking personally Cichli, and after hearing the reissues, I can't see why 'Apples in Bed' was not included. For me it's the biggest revelation of all the unreleased stuff. Just a wonderful, wonderful image: makes you see why all that Grant As Poet stuff came about. And then there's 'When people are dead', but wasn't that recorded too late for inclusion on Talullah (over to you Lindy). | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
And on the subject of rock books, can i just say 'Stranded' by Clinton Walker, is one of the worst written books I've ever read. No typos, immaculately edited, interesting subject matter: just written by an egocentric with English as a 97th language. (Should that be 'an 97th'?' Ask Lynne Truss. I live in England, and we have been met this Christmas by a tsunami of middle-class, cantankerous middle-aged arseholes spewing out books about the bastardisation of the English language. Between you and I, Me'm sick to the back teeth of it. So butchers and grocers can't punctuate: who f***ing cares?) | ||
| anon Unregistered guest |
Tut, tut, Cassiel. Shouldn't there be a comma after 'cantankerous'. Let's try to keep up some standard of basic punctuation here in the Go-Between's chat room. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 15 Registered: 08-2004 |
Pete, When I first bought 'Street Legal' I absolutely hated it, but it has grown on me to the extent that I realise it is now one of my most played Dylan CDs. I don't have the remixed copy so thanks for the tip. Rather than Elvis's Vegas years as a musical influence (if only!), I read somewhere that Dylan was impressed by Neil Diamond's big band set up at the time. Their paths certainly crossed during The Last Waltz, the Band's farewell show at the end of 1976 . I think my initial problem with 'Street Legal' is that I associate it with 'Live at Budokan', the double concert set released a year later which presents the fully developed 'Neil Diamond big band sound' which Dylan was only starting to develop on Street Legal. For me, 'Live at Budokan' is the turkey in Dylan's recording canon. I sold it over 15 years ago and nothing could ever make me listen to it again. Randy: I bought Gene Clarke's 'No Other' a while back and I was impressed by the tremendous brew of styles on it. Would you recommend an other? Cichli | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 29 Registered: 09-2004 |
Hi Lindy. A couple of us did mention "Chronicles" in another thread but didn't go into the detail you did. It was fantastic and I can't wait to read it again (my copy is currently doing the rounds amongst some friends). The "Oh Mercy" chapter is my favourite. I recently found a link to Richard Thompson's website and he hated the book. He slammed it of reading like a forgery ("Hitler's Diaries" was his comparison) and for attempting to set the record straight. I couldn't agree with either of these charges for it is pure Dylan and so elusory. Cassiel, I quite enjoyed "Stranded". By opting for the popular oral biography style I think Clinton Walker leaves little room to flex his ego. Some great stuff on the Go-Bs in there too. Cichili, I've heard "Budokan" but I'm frightened of it. If I see it in an op-shop I'll pick it up but I remember a few reggae arrangments that are still giving me nightmares. Having said that, I've recently been downloading some mp3s from rehearsal's for the tour, some of which are very good including a successful reggae version of "Knockin' On Heaven's Door". | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 16 Registered: 08-2004 |
Pádraig, I said I'd get back to you about the lemon kitkats. I don't think they are available in Italy but you might be able to order them from here, if you are desperate ! dodgy kit kat web site Or if you are feeling more exotic you could follow up this story on Nestle's plans to launch a curry flavoured KitKat: curry flavoured kitkats It's nice to know that in a few weeks time we'll be able type 'kitkat and dylan' into Google and this page will be returned top of the list. Cichli | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 10 Registered: 09-2004 |
I haven't heard Apples in Bed, haven't listened to reissues. Apples in bed may be acoustic version is it? I don't know if I ever heard or played that song, maybe on tape David Nicols has that I lent him. I only opened the covers of the reissues the other day when Bob Johnson Gobs manager was phoning from London and wouldn't get off the line until I opened them up and looked at photos. Couldn't believe how bad photo sessions for Lovers Lane were. That hair, what was I thinking (Cher!). People are Dead great song inspired and lyrics written by eccentric Irish woman. I don't know if too late for inclusion may be correct. Great rhythm track as well. Prefer not to talk on Gobs stuff by the way. Much more fun to hear what people are watching, reading listening to. Although soon I will comment on Stranded | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Thanks for the links Cichli. I'm more curious than desperate, but very intrigued at the idea of the curry one. I saw a place selling chilli ice cream on Bondi Beach last January and am regretting ever since not trying it (I had already gotten a different ice cream). I only get to Bondi about once every 12 years as there are plenty of nicer beaches on my side of Sydney. I bought Chronicles yesterday and will read it after I finish England's Dreaming. | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
Cichli: "No Other" is Gene Clark's most elaborately produced album. I should disclose to you that I view it as seriously overproduced, but "From a Silver Phial" is a great classic and there are certainly other good moments there too. "Some Misunderstanding" just sounds like a parody of Clark's depresso persona. The strongest albums are: (1) "White Light" which is Clark's most consistent and most Dylan-like record. Expect dense lyrics and lots of harmonica. (2) If you like 1960s vintage stuff, there is a very good antho of early Gene Clark called "Echoes" which includes all of his first solo album (from 1967) and the things he did with the Byrds plus a few rarities. It's quite great. The solo album had a few songs arranged by Leon Russell and the players included folks like Clarence White and his former bandmates Chris Hillman and Michael Clarke. (3) A very nice odds and sods antho called "Roadmaster" mops up unreleased things from around 1970-71. That material is fairly diverse also and generally of very high quality. It includes two Byrds reunion tracks which are quite convincing unlike the actual Byrds reunion album which happened about a year later (and is very bad). (4) His 1968 vintage first album with Douglas Dillard ("Fantastic Expedition") has one of his strongest set of songs and is very highly recommended but be prepared for the banjo-heavy arrangements. Bernie Leadon was in that band. (5) His last studio album was a great collaboration with Carla Olson of the Textones called "So Rebellious a Lover." This is a very fine country/folkie set from 1987 using mostly acoustic instruments. Avoid: "Firebyrd"--a very weakly arranged set that reprises a few songs, including "Tambourine Man" to no useful purpose. There was simply no imagination on that album at all. Also avoid the other odds & sods sets like "Under The Silvery Moon," "Gypsy Angel" and "Silhouetted in Light" unless and until you become a fanatic like me. They're only for completists. Boiled down to one choice, I recommend "White Light." | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 30 Registered: 09-2004 |
Yes, the "Apples in Bed" is an acoustic demo, but it was suppossedly recorded before 16LL and produced by Mark Wallis which confuses the hell out of me. It certainly sounds like it could have come from the Botany Street sessions (very hissy and four-track sounding), save for some obvious overdubs. Speaking of the tape Lindy lent David Nichols, I wonder why he omitted the track listing from the revised version of the book? I realise it was only a footnote, but surely any Go-Bs fan would appreciate mentions of rare recordings and may-have-beens. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 17 Registered: 08-2004 |
Randy, thanks very much for such a detailed answer. I like Gene Clarke's voice and style of song writing very much so I will be following up your suggestions. This may be a spurious observation, but I couldn't help thinking that Michael Stipe of REM's voice, and more particularly his phrasing, is awfully like Gene Clarke's. I've no idea whether Stipe is a Gene Clarke fan, though I believe the early REM stuff was influenced by the Byrds. Cichli | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
'No Other' is overblown, overproduced and overwrought. It is quite simply one of the best albums ever made, a work of mad genius and a record to have with you always. Sorry Randy, but that album knocks me out... And Anon, shouldn't there be a question mark after cantankerous? | ||
| anon Unregistered guest |
Yes, Cassiel, indeed there should be. What a wretch I am! I blame all the NWA I listened to as a callow youth. | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
And to intervene in the kit-kat discussion, can I give you this one nugget? Apparently, If you laid side-by-side all the kit-kats eaten in the world in every hour (or it might be minute) they would stretch around the London underground eight times... I was told this ages ago by a press officer for the company that produces them. So it must be true!! | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 18 Registered: 08-2004 |
Cassiel, A few lines on the underground must be closed for renovation... KitKat goes underground Cichli | ||
| gareth Unregistered guest |
The great thing about the Dylan book is that as you’re reading it you sort of know he’s taking liberties with a few things like the descriptions of the places, how everything looked etc. It’s unlikely he could remember these things in that level of detail but who cares? Maybe its how he does remember them rather than how they actually were which I think is just as valid. What you remember and how you remember it can tell you just as much about a person as how closely it was to what really happened. Some of his prose in the book is beautiful and shames a lot of ‘serious’ writers around at the moment. Few non-fiction books have proved to be such a page turner for me as this was. And for the record, ‘Love and Theft’ is fantastic and continues to get better and better with each listen. How great a song is ‘Mississippi’????? | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
Cassiel, I can't argue with your description of "No Other." I suppose I should love it considering how much I enjoy other incongruous creations such as the Hollies' much maligned "Hollies Sing Dylan" which I absolutely love except for a few of the tracks that veer too far into the cabaret territory. Speaking of incongruous, how do you like the makeup on Clark on the cover work? Cichi, I strongly suspect that Michael Stipe worships at the alter of Gene Clark. You folks are making me very curious about this Dylan book. | ||
| Cassiel Unregistered guest |
Cichli, I learned that fact before the extension to the Jubilee line too. There was another fact about the Eiffel Tower, but can't remember the specifics. But then I've more of a fruit gum man, myself... And Randy, it's not Clark's make-up that worries me: it's those enormous trousers... | ||
| Jerry Clark Member Username: Jerry Post Number: 22 Registered: 08-2004 |
I know that Peter Buck is a huge Byrds fan, Michael Stipe is much more guarded when it comes to influences. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
Yes. The only influences Michael Stipe will cough up are Patti Smith and Gang of Four. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
What a great discussion! The Kit Kat thread made me go to the cupboard and get a mint one out. That Guardian link is a great story Cichli. I actually remember seeing that headline but did not read the story at the time as I was more likely searching the Guardian for football results. As I started writing this I was listening to Def Leppard's hair-metal classic Animal (is this enough to get me an Illsley-style banning?), but now I'm listening to The Divinyls' glorious ode to onanism, I Touch Myself. Ned's Atomic Dustbin's Kill Your Television has just come on now. Yes, I'm having a morning of late 80s/ early 90s revisionism. And a mint Kit Kat. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 11 Registered: 09-2004 |
Patti Smith - Piss Factory, Gang of Four - It's her Factory (b side I think) and The Slits - Typical Girls, are the anthems of the late 70's. Hey Gareth, you are right, it doesn't matter if his detail is made up, it is pretty to read, who cares if it's true that there were gardening boots in the corner, photos on the desk, framed photos on the wall, lace cap flowers with dark stems, circular shadows etc when he puts it together and each sentence is poetry. Padraig (dumb question)if you can tear yourself away from the kitkats, (damn hot to eat choclat in Sidders today),how can I put the fada into your name? God I'm getting so selfconscious about the punctuation. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Hi Lindy, the easiest way is to copy if from a previous posting, but in word you go to insert and then click on symbol. Just trying it now I can't find it though. It must be there somewhere, it can't just have disappeared. I have it set in word as an auto correct. I type Padraig and it changes it to Pádraig. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 19 Registered: 08-2004 |
I use Ctrl-Alt-A (pressed simultaneously) for the 'a' fada. That should work. It may depend on how your keyboard is setup, though. Cichli | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Doesn't work on mine Cichli. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 12 Registered: 09-2004 |
Skip this if you are not interested in symbols in computers and copyright. Short diversion. Still awake Pádraig? Pádraig copied from previous posting. Pádraig from symbol Lucida sans code but then you have to go off this site and into word to find symbol and copy back in, very tedious. Cichli Suite, Cichli, the code you suggested doesn't work for me but there is another provided in Lucida sans code symbols but I can't get that to work either. Here comes the copyright bit. However, I did find the symbol © which is the symbol on all recordings to state the owner of musical work (song)ie publisher or who wrote the song if the songwriter has no publisher. And year of publication. I couldn't find a p in a circle which is also on all recordings to state owner of the copyright in the mastertape - soundrecording. The owner paid for the recording and then owns the rights and income from those rights in the band's recorded sounds. The p sounds for phonogram the old expression for a recording. | ||
| Cichli Suite Member Username: Cichli_suite Post Number: 20 Registered: 08-2004 |
Lindy, the sound recording copyright 'p' in a circle isn't included in most font sets. However, you should be able to find it in one or two fonts on your compuer. For example, most variants of the 'MS Reference' font include it. You can access this font through MS Word, or if you didn't want to do that you could copy it from the 'character map' program which is included on every Windows operating system. In Windows 2000, which I am using, you can access the character map from Start -> Programs -> Accessories ->System Tools ->Character Map So, this little 'p' in a circle is the thing which allows record companies to leech artists dry, huh? With the cost of recording now a fraction of what it used to be and with artists now able to market themselves on the Internet, are the record companies not on the brink of becoming defunct? I'm curious as to what people working in the business would have to say to this. Cichli | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
My prediction is that record companies will remain relevant for the teenybopper music. And I think there will continue to be a place for the small boutique companies that release anthologies. But the fact that they no longer have a lock of people's ability to be heard is a wonderful development. One I personally intend to exploit. | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 31 Registered: 09-2004 |
Lindy wrote: ". . . soon I will comment on Stranded". I'm looking forward to this. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 13 Registered: 09-2004 |
yes I was scared a discussion on copyright would be so boring I would be banned. Or stop discussion, about more important matters like the the actual creations that produce copyright. Cichli in my thinking record contracts are most unfair. The problems lie with lack of revenue for non composers as the composers have statutory rights. Simply stated composers receive income from first record sold and non composers must wait until every penny spent on recording, video, champagne dinners and tour support are paid back (damn those two years on the road with REM when AB and I were treated like princesses by REM I might add). The last three albums on Beggars have not recouped for performers. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 14 Registered: 09-2004 |
Ed Kuepper and I had a long talk on the weekend. He is on the road with my fave drummer of all time Jeffrey Wegener but the other good news is that in the new year HOT is releasing a Clowns reissue. The Laughing Clowns are a group often overlooked by some writers, who have had too much influence over the written history of Oz alternate music. A group that had the greatest influence on The Go Betweens, The Apartments and dare I say it The Birthday Party. Anyway the reissue is called Cruel but Fair, Ed wouldn't tell me why he chose that name. Maybe there will be a reunion if he can find Louise Eliot and if Les Miller will agree. Louise is in London somewhere. Robert wrote the song The Clowns are in Town about the Clowns, but I've said that before. Peter, I need to think about Stranded before I can write, sometimes words said too soon can pay you back in malicious ways. Only took 53 years to learn that one. | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
I'm really shocked to learn that the Beggars albums have not paid performance royalties. I didn't realize how outlandish the system is. | ||
| Rob Unregistered guest |
Great news about the Clowns reissues, Lindy. Cassiel, I totally agree about the bourgeois "grammar and spelling" wave. I hope Lynne Truss never puts fingers to keys again. And Cichli, tomorrow I'm going out and will sample a lemon Kit Kat for you. | ||
| Rob Unregistered guest |
Sorry, I should have addressed that last remark to Pádraig. I'll be in Sydney in a couple of weeks, maybe if they're any good I can leave one in a hollow tree near your house, then notify you via this site. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
Yes, bring me a kit-kat and maybe we can meet for a drink. I met Pete Azzopardi when I was in Melbourne for work last April. | ||
| button down Member Username: Buttondown Post Number: 4 Registered: 09-2004 |
Wow, this thread has it all.. Lisa Miller (W.Minc recording artist) does a wonderful version of You're a Big Girl Now on her 1996 debut Quiet Girl With a Credit Card. Clinton Walker writes the glowing liners. Hearing a woman sing this song certainly changes the emphasis from the original. Lisa supported Bob Dylan on his most recent Australian tour. For what it's worth, I'd put both Time out of Mind and Love & Theft in my top 5 Dylan albums of all time. The Gene Clark mentions have been most welcome; there is nothing more I can add here. I know the Laughing Clowns are mentioned here from time to time, but they really are one of the most underappreciated bands of the "post punk" era. The new box set is very welcome news as I'm not sure how long my LPs will hold out for. I can certainly attest to the talents of "the Professor" Jeffrey Wegener having had the pleasure of playing with him on several occasions. I haven't been able to see his most recent collaboration with Ed Kuepper (Music for Len Lye), much to my disappointment. | ||
| Randy Adams Unregistered guest |
I introduced myself to Ed Kuepper in a big way about 2 years ago and mopped up everything I could find of his solo work. I haven't heard any Laughing Clowns at all and I'm really looking forward to this box set. I still haven't gotten around to the Aints, though I love the name. Wish I could find a copy of the first Apartments album. Back to Amazon . . . . | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
The 'Aints are great Randy. Be under no illusions though, what they play is ROCK, not pop at all. The first studio album is an absolute classic. The second is very good too. I wish he would do another 'Aints album. | ||
| Peter Azzopardi Member Username: Pete Post Number: 33 Registered: 09-2004 |
Who are you really, Button Down? BTW, did you mean to say that Lisa Miller supported Neil Young? I can't remember hearing that she supported Dylan, though maybe I missed a tour. | ||
| button down Member Username: Buttondown Post Number: 5 Registered: 09-2004 |
oops my bad - it was neil young. I saw them both at the boondocks entertainment centre last year, a couple of months apart maybe? memory wastes.. I'm a nobody Peter! | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 |
There was a third Aints album recorded in 93 or so, but has yet to surface. I'm looking forward to the next Ed Kuepper album, especially to hear Wegener's drumming. As far as a Laughing Clowns reunion goes, I think that only a Kuepper/Wegener/Elliot/Millar/Doyle line-up would work best, though I would love to see Peter Milton Walsh grace the live stage again, but that somewhat seems unlikely. Kuepper's MFLL show in Brisbane with Wegener was jaw-dropping. My account of the show is here: http://www.timeoff.com.au/archive/1203/reviews/live1.html Randy,if you're looking for Apartments albums you should try www.didgerecords.com or gemm.com | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 18 Registered: 09-2004 |
That's a very descriptive review Donat, but what about Dan Wallace Crabbe in your preferred Laughing Clowns line up. Another connection to the Go-Betweens as he played piano on Your Turn my Turn. | ||
| Donat Member Username: Donat Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 |
Lindy, I've always liked Dan's piano playing in that GB song and his work with the Laughing Clowns in those first three releases. I've kind of forgotten about him! I guess it would make sense to keep a particular line-up from a certain era, as opposed to a mixed affair. If a reformed LC was Ed, Jeff and some other people who weren't ever in the original band, then it wouldn't be the Laughing Clowns. I can see how the GB took a few cues from the Clowns in SMAL, especially 'The Girls Have Moved' (that hi-hat!) and of course 'Midnight to Neon' with Freud's sax sounding a lot like the Block. That record in a lot of ways sounds like my two favourite bands at once. | ||
| lindy morrison Member Username: Lindymorrison Post Number: 19 Registered: 09-2004 |
It was Mark (whose name will never be allowed to be spoken on this site again)who alerted me to the fact by email. Cmon what about the outlandish solo in 8 Pictures that has my love for Jeffrey written all over it. (Recorded in the roof of Richmond Recorders,)Freud's recollections of that time were great in his auto biography. Although I'm not sure that Freud's performance on sax was based on anything more than luck. I still have those high hats. | ||
| Rob Unregistered guest |
Pádraig I think the cold weather (snowing in Bradford today) and Christmas indulgence has brought about a run on lemon Kit-Kats. The shelves are bare! I found lime KKs the other day, but I'm not going that far in the name of research. They sound a bad idea. I'm trying again today. A drink in Sydney sounds good though. | ||
| myname Unregistered guest |
I cant find the song that is playing in the intro to napolean dynamite... the one that plays when all the cradits are being shown on the plates of food... great song can anyone help me out | ||
| Peter Collins Unregistered guest |
Back to films. The Station Agent is easily film of the year. So there. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
It was released in the States last year, although I saw it this summer on video. I enjoyed the acting quite a lot, especially by the amazing Patricia Clarkson; however, I did find the film unintentionally condescending. The dwarf wanted to be treated like a "real" person, and yet the director gave his character no dimensions, so he remained a surly dwarf. | ||
| Peter Collins Unregistered guest |
Ah, but I like surly dwarfs. It's surely the best surly dwarf film ever made. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I loved The Station Agent too. I think it was in 2004 that I saw it in Sydney. Alfred, I think you are utterly wrong. It was not condescending in any way, unintentionally or otherwise. So what if he was surly? That is about all the personality that many people have. Why can't a dwarf be surly? If he had appeared in someone's dream sequence or was featured dancing around an effigy of Stonehenge that might have been condescending. But he was not used that way. He was just allowed to be a normal person who occasionally almost got run over by a distracted woman who did not see him. A great film. Thanks for reminding me of it Peter. | ||
| Alfred Unregistered guest |
The problem with Surly Dwarf is how he was made surly: being constantly reminded that he was a dwarf. It was a bit like a Sidney Poitier film from the '60s: screenwriters and directors rarely allowed him to be anything BUT a black man, instead of just a man. That said, the film is proof of how a sensitive director can transform commonplace material. Think about it: a dwarf, a Cuban vendor, and a single woman... sounds like the beginning of a joke. As I originally wrote, I enjoyed the movie. | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I thought the ice cream guy was Italian-American, but maybe he was Cuban. If you are still online and have seen it, can you tell me if Meet The Fockers is worth spending my Monday afternoon at? Did you see the review of it in the New York Times? It was the probably the most extraordinarily wrong-headed film review I have ever seen. It somehow managed to allege a Jews-as-figure-of-fun conspiracy from what I assume, if it's anything like the first instalment, to be a harmless comedy. They person who wrote the review was not, I'm almost certain, Jewish (he/she had an Indian-sounding name). | ||
| Peter Collins Unregistered guest |
I think part of the point of the film was that this surly dwarf, usually constantly reminded that he was a dwarf by the world, and having just lost the only person who didn't treat him that way, unexpectedly found some people who looked at him as human first.... | ||
| mike racette Unregistered guest |
I See yuour drinking 1% milk | ||
| Peter Collins, milk drinker Unregistered guest |
Excuse my tiny mind, but what does that mean? | ||
| Lasse Carlestam Unregistered guest |
Apologies for coming in late in this discussion... Re: The Aints I think it was Donat who wrote: "There was a third Aints album recorded in 93 or so, but has yet to surface." That is unfortunately not so. According to Ed Kuepper there are no more unreleased Aints material, except for some live stuff. And there are no plans to release that at the moment. The Clowns box, however, is now ready for release so it should hopefully be surfacing soon. And those of you who enjoy his solo work might be interested to know that there's also a 3CD retrospective compilation of Ed's solo work, probably to be called "The Magic Mile", to be released soon--hopefully along the same time as the Clowns box! And yes, I enjoyed Garden State. Have unfortunately not seen The Station Agent (yet). :-) | ||
| bob fisher Unregistered guest |
hey does anybody know what the song is playing in the car when pedro's brothers are driving napolean to the dance? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Unregistered guest |
I remember it as being pretty cool Bob, but I can't remember what song it was. What a great scene though. Film of the year for me. |