| Author | Message | ||
     Phil Obbard Member Username: Pobbard Post Number: 9 Registered: 06-2005 |
Back in 2005, there was a long thread about the awful mastering of OCEANS APART (see the distortion throughout "This Night's For You", for example). Has this ever been corrected? I remember some suggested the Lo-Max release was of better fidelity, but to my ears it's just as bad as the Yep-Roc release. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1636 Registered: 10-2004 |
Lo-Max kind of fixed it with a second pressing, wherein they bumped the overall level down. All this did was reduce the audible distortion in the last two tracks, This Night's For You and Mountains Near Delray. The album is still brickwalled, unfortunately. And the debate over whether or not this was done during mastering (as I suspect) or mixing (as a few others suspected in the epic thread on this topic from 2005), was never resolved. Now, tracking down this slightly better Lo-Max version might prove tricky unless you purchase it directly through them. Myself and others on this board were able to mail in our original CDs in exchange for the 2nd pressing. But that was 3-4 years ago. But if you have the Lo-Max version and the last two songs distort a bit worse than the rest of the album, it's likely you've got the first pressing. | ||
| Michael Bachman Member Username: Michael_bachman Post Number: 1496 Registered: 01-2005 |
Phil, I was one of the others that Jeff mentions that particapted in the Lo-Max swap. I sent mine back to them four years ago when they first offered the swap out program. It would be great if they still will swap out your bad one, as it sounds like you have one from your post. I've got a Yep Roc copy as well that I never play anymore due to the distortion problem. | ||
| David Tang Member Username: Ddtng Post Number: 11 Registered: 08-2008 |
So the Lo-Max version was never made available anywhere other than directly from Lo-Max? | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1677 Registered: 10-2004 |
David, I believe that the "corrected" Lo-Max version was used for the 2nd pressing. Now, how one would tell the 1st pressing from the 2nd pressing in a store is beyond me, so it's probably safest to order directly from Lo-Max if you want to be certain of what you're getting. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2054 Registered: 03-2005 |
My impression is the same as Jeff's. Lo-Max replaced their original CDs with new ones mastered at a slightly less "hot" level. But that doesn't mean that they recalled all the old CDs in the stores; if you aren't lucky you get one of the original CDs. I must say, however, that I've never had the opportunity to compare the Yep Roc or first Lo-Max version to the second Lo-Max version. So I don't know if the improvement is obvious. (It's a little bit amazing to me--given the pricey sound equipment I have--that I was never all that bothered by the Yep Roc CD. The whole album is violently over-compressed but I never heard some of the noises that other people reported.) | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1679 Registered: 10-2004 |
Randy, I did a/b the Yep Roc and corrected Lo-Max versions, and the only real audible difference between the two is that "This Night's For You" and "Mountains Near Delray" aren't as distorted on the corrected version (those last two tracks distort a wee bit more than the preceding 8 on the first pressing). It's still violently over-compressed (an apt description, Randy). I will say, however, that the Yep Roc vinyl sounds better overall because the nature of the medium reduces the harshness slightly. But only slightly. The whole mess never really seemed to get the closure that it deserved. Forster/McLennan's vague claim that they wanted a "modern" sound at least implies that the aggressively brickwalled sound was deliberate. But I'd love it if we could some day get a detailed explanation from Wallis and Forster and anyone else involved as to what the hell they were thinking and why. I'm hoping David Nichols will complete a third and final edition of his biography that will shed more light on the situation. | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2055 Registered: 03-2005 |
A remix and remaster would be nice. For me personally, it's "Finding You" that is most obviously screwed up. When the chorus comes in the whole thing just overloads. It can sound much much better than it does right now. I suppose neither Robert nor Grant were really sound guys. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1681 Registered: 10-2004 |
Yeah, I'm keeping my fingers crossed that in several years time we'll get a deluxe reissue with a remix/remaster. True, "Finding You" does sound pretty weird and overloaded in the chorus. I've always felt "Lavender" pushed the line in that regard as well. Robert and Grant definitely weren't sound guys, but I think both Wallis and whoever mastered it have a lot to answer for! | ||
| Lewisdhead Member Username: Lewisdhead Post Number: 45 Registered: 01-2007 |
"Robert and Grant definitely weren't sound guys, but I think both Wallis and whoever mastered it have a lot to answer for!" I thought they were really sound guys. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 3251 Registered: 05-2005 |
You do get the feeling that bob and grant were not interested in the recorded or eq'ing aspect of their studio sessions don't you? Jeff, did Wallis oversee the mastering? If so he needs his ears looking at, if not, shoot (metaphorically jesting) the guy who did over see it, the distortion is quite obviously there and although I live with it, I'd love to hear a proper remastered version, as this is bound to be what the band would have heard in the studio whilst making it, and we have still 5 years on, YET to hear!!! | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2945 Registered: 05-2005 |
It's only been four years Spence! I'm betting on a 10th anniversary edition. Actually no, it will be sooner than that I'm sure. | ||
| Jeff Whiteaker Member Username: Jeff_whiteaker Post Number: 1684 Registered: 10-2004 |
Spence, I doubt Wallis had anything to do with the mastering. The only reason I mention his name is because the hyper-compressed distorted sound could conceivably have been achieved during mixing. However, bad mastering was the most likely culprit. It's possible Wallis and the band gave specific instructions to the mastering engineer, however. Who knows! But since everyone involved has been so tight-lipped about it, I'm hoping David Nichols may some day get to the bottom of exactly what happened. Judging by the long-overdue appearances of reissues in the past, I suspect we'll see a 10-year anniversary deluxe reissue *only* if there appears to be sufficient interest. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 3259 Registered: 05-2005 |
I wonder if it was a deliberate move in the studio, to give the songs the 'modern - loud' feel, why was it only on certain songs? Otherwise I suppose leads to Jeff's conclusion that it was bad mastering. I agree about the instructions to the mastering engineer point too. If there were no instructions to, 'up' the gain, and it sounded wrong, why did no one notice, was there a review procedure in place? from personal experience, surely you'd get copy of album to review before being released to the pressing plant!!?? Pad, sorry it is only 4 years, ut I bet they started making it in '04 is what I meant. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 3260 Registered: 05-2005 |
Done a bit of searching, I think this is the guy who mastered: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kHQCIBV24 _s http://www.closetotheedge.biz/index.htm anyone got the balls to ask him "what happened!?" ;) | ||
| Randy Adams Member Username: Randy_adams Post Number: 2058 Registered: 03-2005 |
"Close to the Edge." That's rich. He went right straight over it. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 223 Registered: 02-2005 |
I wrote an e-mail to Wallis' production company back when the fur was flying and someone from his office replied something to the effect that, "I think you'll find that the problem was in the mastering, not the production." The revised Lo-Max issue was an improvement, although not a dramatic one. I got my replacement disc through Yeproc/Redeye. Lo-Max gave them discs to redistribute to unhappy American customers, but Yeproc never re-pressed the album as far as I know. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 3261 Registered: 05-2005 |
Great response from Wallis and co then!!! Was anyone responsible for this major f*ck up? Did anyone actually care? I suspect the Wallis company would have given instructions to the mastering guy, especially if they reckon they were not there at the actual time of mastering. Its the done thing is it not? If neither produce or band were present at final mastering, then who approved the mastering mixes prior to pressing? that's what I really want to know! This mystery is fast becoming (for me anyway) much more interesting than where the fu*k have Lord Lucan or Osama got to!? Guy, in what way was there an improvement? | ||
| Pádraig Collins Member Username: Pádraig_collins Post Number: 2967 Registered: 05-2005 |
Spence, it was an improvement in that there was less distortion. It still didn't come close to eliminating it. | ||
| Guy Ewald Member Username: Guy_ewald Post Number: 227 Registered: 02-2005 |
Well, it wasn't "quite" as loud and the distortion on the final couple of tracks wasn't "quite" as noticeable. You know, it's a great album and I've been listening to it regularly for more than four years now... I stopped worrying about it. I don't know if any of you go on the Stevehoffman.tv board (often a very weird and geeky forum). He's a mastering engineer and the whole platform of his website is to educate music fans about The Loudness Wars that have dominated CD mastering for the past 8 or 10 years. The amount of compression that's applied is often staggering, "brick-walling" the sound. If you look at a graphic WAV file it looks like a freshly cut lawn of crab grass... no highs or lows. I see this when playing around with music on SoundForge. This has been an escalating problem for some time and with the music industry on it's knees and looking into the abyss, it's not likely to change. Ocean's Apart was mastered by Jon Astley who is well-known for "loudness". He was referred to as Jon Ghastly on the Hoffman Board until the moderators instructed people to stop doing so. He remastered all The WHO CD's, which are plenty damned loud. I think he did screw up on Ocean's Apart, pushed things too far, but it's pretty typical of his work and he's been in-demand as a mastering engineer for years. | ||
| spence Member Username: Spence Post Number: 3266 Registered: 05-2005 |
I am not worrying about the whole OA mastering, just really intigued by it all, after all these years. for me atthe time i couldn;t care less, i thought the songs on it were great, a great GB's mk III album, which is still what i think today. Jon Astley by youtube acconts had a single ot, to say it was feckin shite is a gross understatmement. says it all! fu*k the who! | ||
| Edised Member Username: Edised Post Number: 3 Registered: 07-2006 |
I think this mastering is quite shocking, and I still can't get over it. Always an unpleasant experience ! Which is a shame because it's a damn good album. This mastering engineer should be banned from any mastering studios for life. OA's production is decent and of course the tunes are great. |